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It's amazing that, in your maturity, you dispute with the vast majority of believers over the meaning of women's modesty.
Not true. There is a reason Arabs and cowboys keep themselves fully covered.
No, he is showing no parts used in sex.
Yes, of course I have...so?
Are you kidding?
Timothy 2:9
New International Version
I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes,
The bible doesn't condemn a man or woman going bottomless either...yet.
If you think a woman with no top is dressed modestly, your in denial and wasting mine and your time both.
No, your point?
Do you think me should be able to go bottomless?
Considering the fact public nudity is illegal in the USA, if discrimination is what you choose to call it, then I have the whole country on my side.
However, I don't call keeping a man from going bottomless and a woman from going topless, discrimination, just good sense.
I have asked several times in this thread (without answer) about people who have nice houses or clothing or cars causing others to be envious (which is a sin), about those serving good food causing others to be gluttonous (which is a sin), about those having money causing others to be greedy (which is a sin). Apparently that is alright with you, but topless women who might cause you to sin need to be stopped. Double standard.
You will probably be arrested if you try. In any event, that isn't what we are discussing in this thread. The discussion is about women doing what men commonly do in public.
But the thread isn't about nudity. It is about women going topless when men already go topless.
Men and women are both prohibited from going bottomless. The discrimination comes about when men are permitted to go topless but women are not. Remember, at one time the law was equal--both men and women were prohibited from going topless in public. That is no longer the case.
Though usually if a man has no shirt, he can be denied service at public businesses. It may be technically legal, but it's usually considered improper and transgressive of civility.
It's amazing that, in your maturity, you dispute with the vast majority of believers over the meaning of women's modesty.
We have spoken in the Bible and throughout Judeo-Christian history that your position is incorrect.
We are left to wonder why your small minority claims superior understanding over all of us.
Such an attitude is not consistent with spiritual maturity. Instead, it is consistent with spiritual pride. Wisdom says: There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end it leads to death. (Proverbs 14:12)
Female breasts are not sexual organs. They are secondary sexual characteristics.
I have asked several times in this thread (without answer) about people who have nice houses or clothing or cars causing others to be envious (which is a sin), about those serving good food causing others to be gluttonous (which is a sin), about those having money causing others to be greedy (which is a sin). Apparently that is alright with you, but topless women who might cause you to sin need to be stopped. Double standard.
Fine...that's enough
No, having nice things is not a sin at all.
The sin is in the envy of those who sit on their #%$ while someone else works hard for a better living.
What an odd argument, like that's really a thing. It's as if you tried to create an argument/a problem, where there was no problem, in order to defend the, also odd point you're trying to make. But I guess that makes perfect sense, defend the odd with the odd. You are desperately stretching to make your point now.
No, big difference between a secondary sexual characteristic and a sex organ. Male chest hair is also a secondary sexual characteristic. If you go topless around women you might be showing that off (assuming you have any), but you think that is alright--it is only women who can't go topless around you.
But a woman going topless is?
You are making an assumption that may or may nor be true. The person who is envious might be the harder worker. Oh, and you didn't bother with other points I raised. I guess you have no answer.
This is when you know that someone has nothing to say, when they resort to name calling. I'm not desperately stretching to do anything. You are the one who has reached the point of desperation. You could end this thread right now. Just provide a verse that says that women shouldn't go topless in public. Just one.
No, big difference between a secondary sexual characteristic and a sex organ. Male chest hair is also a secondary sexual characteristic. If you go topless around women you might be showing that off (assuming you have any), but you think that is alright--it is only women who can't go topless around you.
But a woman going topless is?
You are making an assumption that may or may nor be true. The person who is envious might be the harder worker. Oh, and you didn't bother with other points I raised. I guess you have no answer.
This is when you know that someone has nothing to say, when they resort to name calling. I'm not desperately stretching to do anything. You are the one who has reached the point of desperation. You could end this thread right now. Just provide a verse that says that women shouldn't go topless in public. Just one.
As for a verse that says ... and I’m flipping it... women must or should go topless...
Making assumptions? no, I'm going on just what you told me, but now you add to that, and then say I made an assumption because I didn't consider what you never said was part of the equation? Do you even see how twisted that logic is?
"Name calling"? Where?
Didn't answer what "point"?
Now your comparing women not dressing modestly, and that alone making it not biblical to go topless, to making a good living, something that there is nothing wrong with?
So, of course a woman going topless is still sin...your comparison is based on nothing wrong.
No one in this thread is saying that women should go topless. Not even me, the OP.
I forecast a false dichotomy.
Why is this imperative to argue?
Here is exactly what I said earlier: "I have asked several times in this thread (without answer) about people who have nice houses or clothing or cars causing others to be envious (which is a sin), about those serving good food causing others to be gluttonous (which is a sin), about those having money causing others to be greedy (which is a sin)." That in no way says that those who are envious "sit on their #%$ while someone else works hard for a better living." Don't tell me you aren't making assumptions.
Saying that what I am saying is "odd," which you did three times. That is name calling. Apparently your mother did not teach you manners.
Once again, here is exactly what I said earlier: "I have asked several times in this thread (without answer) about people who have nice houses or clothing or cars causing others to be envious (which is a sin), about those serving good food causing others to be gluttonous (which is a sin), about those having money causing others to be greedy (which is a sin)." You replied regarding envy and and said nothing about my other points.
Except I didn't compare women going topless with people working hard to make a good living
Again, show me where in Scripture it says that it is a sin for a woman to go topless. One verse, please. Providing your opinion over and over doesn't count for much.
It's no assumption, if people work hard, get their own mice things, they have nothing to be envious of.
Here's the scripture, and if you don't get it after all this, you refuse to see the clear truth.
◄ 1 Timothy 2:9 ►
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes,
decent
adjective
de·cent | \ ˈdē-sᵊnt
\
Definition of decent
1 : marked by moral integrity, kindness, and goodwill hard-working and decent folks it's very decent of them to help
2a : conforming to standards of propriety, good taste, or morality decent behavior
b : modestly clothed
1) Facts. Truth.
2) So that people would stop shaming women for being "immodest.' This happens even when they're not topless.
It depends on which areas a given society are most ashamed of or lusts the most over I guess. Modesty is a subjective and relative concept.The only major problem I have is with our declaration of which areas must be hidden.
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