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Protestant errors and inventions (3)

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LittleLambofJesus

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He said Catholicism has everything written down and easy to understand, and i responded by saying the scriptures are already written down, and that i can read and study with other believers and learn by Gods spirit, and so i don't need the guidance of the RC Church for that.
Ahhhh...then I agree with ya :thumbsup:



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1Co13

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Define that faith for us.



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Its built on the NT promises.

Ro 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Ro 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

1Co 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;


Mt 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.


Mt 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Joh 14:25 ¶ These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Php 4:4 Rejoice in the Lord alway: and again I say, Rejoice.
Php 4:5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.
Php 4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
Php 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Php 4:9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
 
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GratiaCorpusChristi

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I was merely defending the faith given by the scriptures which promise Gods spirit to be our comforter and teacher. If there was a misunderstanding then all we can do is move past it.

That wasn't what we were discussing. We were discuss the development of the biblical canon, and how it took considerable time to develop within the church and through the guidance of the church.

Then you said I just say these things because I need to defend the pope. You were definitely wrong on that point. I don't have a pope. The pope excommunicated our churches back in the sixteenth century. So yeah, misunderstanding a bit.

But in any case, that still doesn't change the original point: the canon developed over time through an organic relationship with successive generations of Christians over centuries, and was formalized through official church channels. You owe your New Testament to them.
 
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Standing Up

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That wasn't what we were discussing. We were discuss the development of the biblical canon, and how it took considerable time to develop within the church and through the guidance of the church.

And there still is no agreement on the OT. So, what's your point?

Then you said I just say these things because I need to defend the pope. You were definitely wrong on that point. I don't have a pope. The pope excommunicated our churches back in the sixteenth century. So yeah, misunderstanding a bit.

But in any case, that still doesn't change the original point: the canon developed over time through an organic relationship with successive generations of Christians over centuries, and was formalized through official church channels. You owe your New Testament to them.

Like Athanasius said, the NT was handed down as divine. IOW, I'm not aware of the early church thinking they had some hand in "putting it together".

Today, however, folks claim the church did it, as you imply, but I'm not sure that's a P error or a Roman error.
 
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Standing Up

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The error you've committed is that my membership isn't with a religious club. Religious clubs are a protestant invention.

And, I wouldn't be too proud of what you have done to the Word of God. As a lover of the Sacred Scriptures myself, I fear that they suffer a thousand tiny deaths at the hands of those who claim to hold them at the highest esteem. In truth, they've rendered the Sacred Scriptures unprofitable for doing what the Sacred Scriptures themselves say are profitable.

As I've pointed out before, the first fruits of sola scriptura is private judgment and it's easy to see how far that has gotten you. So, good job protestants, you've lost your collective evangelical voice. :clap:

Well, let's be honest; after all, it's not as if RC has anyone else agreeing with it on its interpretations either.

OTOH, if the salvation message is simple---believe on the Lord Jesus---then the voice is clear and loud and united. It's all those other Tradtions that confuse.
 
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1Co13

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That wasn't what we were discussing. We were discuss the development of the biblical canon, and how it took considerable time to develop within the church and through the guidance of the church.

Then you said I just say these things because I need to defend the pope. You were definitely wrong on that point. I don't have a pope. The pope excommunicated our churches back in the sixteenth century. So yeah, misunderstanding a bit.

But in any case, that still doesn't change the original point: the canon developed over time through an organic relationship with successive generations of Christians over centuries, and was formalized through official church channels. You owe your New Testament to them.


If it were not for the Jews i wouldn't have the OT but it was not put into cannon yet till the church did it, do i now give credit to the pope for the book of Genesis?
 
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Rev Randy

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Maybe even longer, if you read Galatians a certain way...He was in the desert a good long time...

True. three years is a presumption of mine or a minimum. Christ spent that much time teaching all his apostles.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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I can do without the love that uses the term 'romanist'.

And i could do without a roman-government-style (romanist) hierarchy in the church . we should go with what Jesus taught instead .

And I can do w/o the love that uses the term "protestant". Perhaps we can come to some kind of settlement on each of those terms.

Romanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Romanist)

Romanism was a word used as a derogatory term for Roman Catholicism in the past when anti-Catholicism was more common in the United States and the United Kingdom. The term was frequently used in late-nineteenth and early-twentieth century Republican invectives against the Democrats, as part of the slogan "Rum, rebellion, and Romanism" (referencing the Democratic party's constituency of Southerners and anti-Temperance, frequently Catholic, working-class immigrants).

The term and slogan gained particular prominence in the 1928 presidential campaign, in which the Democratic candidate was the outspokenly anti-Prohibition Catholic Governor of New York Al Smith. The term is still used, though rarely, by anti-Catholics..........


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I just meant old-roman-empire structure of doing things . there are things that are not romanist but are roman catholic .

I have my beloved Methodist grandmothers bible with 'protestant' embossed in gold letters on the cover.

So, what's the problem?

A derogatory term kinda like Christian . some like the label some don't . and some like no labels at all . words are inadequate wouldn't you say?
 
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Albion

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The error you've committed is that my membership isn't with a religious club.
I didn't make a mistake there. That's the way you see Christianity, Christ's Gospel, and salvation. I obviously see those matters differently. In the light of the Bible's teachings, you might say.

And, I wouldn't be too proud of what you have done to the Word of God. As a lover of the Sacred Scriptures myself
Then you are not one of those who delights in saying that it's somehow ignorant or foolish to refer to the Scriptures as the "Word of God?" That would be good, then. :thumbsup:

As I've pointed out before, the first fruits of sola scriptura is private judgment

I know that that's one of the RC talking points, but in fact it's no more accurate than saying that your Traditions that take the place of Scripture are also received by you through a private judgment. All that really matters is what it is that we are interpreting...and whether it is God's truth or something else.

Obviously, I'd say, the Word of God can't be inferior to anything else, even though there are millions of people who prefer Tradition or direct revelations (they claim) from the Holy Spirit or assemble their own versions of sacred writings (as we can read advocated over on the Unorthodox Theology forum).

and it's easy to see how far that has gotten you. So, good job protestants, you've lost your collective evangelical voice. :clap:
It is somewhat ironic that you'd put it that way. "Evangelical" means Gospel-centered, and I'm the one advocating for the authority of the Gospel here! :doh:
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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And i could do without a roman-government-style (romanist) hierarchy in the church . we should go with what Jesus taught instead .
Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus
And I can do w/o the love that uses the term "protestant". Perhaps we can come to some kind of settlement on each of those terms.

Romanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Romanist)

I just meant old-roman-empire structure of doing things . there are things that are not romanist but are roman catholic .
It would appear the OC Jewish structure was similar to our court system today. :confused:

Mat 26:59
The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for false evidence against Jesus so that they could put Him to death.


Mar 15:1
Very early in the morning, the chief priests, with the elders, the teachers of the law and the whole Sanhedrin, made their plans.
So they bound Jesus, led Him away and handed him over to Pilate.

Judaism 101 - Sanhedrin - A Glossary of Basic Jewish Terms and Concepts - OU.ORG

Sanhedrin
"Sanhedrin" - (m., pl. "Sanhedriyaot") - 1. the Jewish "Supreme Court;" it consisted of seventy one great Torah Sages, who met in the "Lishkat HaGazit," the "Office of Hewn Stone," adjacent to the Temple in Jerusalem; 2. The Masechta, or Folio of the Talmud that discusses the activities of the Sanhedrin, and related matters.
The Rabbis who were the members of the Sanhedrin had all received "Semichah," the formal passing over of the Tradition from their teachers.
On the floor of the Sanhedrin were debated the fundamental principles of the Torah, and the result was established by majority vote.



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1Co13

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It would appear the OC Jewish structure was similar to our court system today. :confused:

Mat 26:59
The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for false evidence against Jesus so that they could put Him to death.


Mar 15:1
Very early in the morning, the chief priests, with the elders, the teachers of the law and the whole Sanhedrin, made their plans.
So they bound Jesus, led Him away and handed him over to Pilate.

Judaism 101 - Sanhedrin - A Glossary of Basic Jewish Terms and Concepts - OU.ORG

Sanhedrin
"Sanhedrin" - (m., pl. "Sanhedriyaot") - 1. the Jewish "Supreme Court;" it consisted of seventy one great Torah Sages, who met in the "Lishkat HaGazit," the "Office of Hewn Stone," adjacent to the Temple in Jerusalem; 2. The Masechta, or Folio of the Talmud that discusses the activities of the Sanhedrin, and related matters.
The Rabbis who were the members of the Sanhedrin had all received "Semichah," the formal passing over of the Tradition from their teachers.
On the floor of the Sanhedrin were debated the fundamental principles of the Torah, and the result was established by majority vote.



.

Paul said we shouldn't use civil courts. But maybe using the church to settle disputes is better than handing each other over to Roman soldiers.

1Co 6:1 ¶ Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
1Co 6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
1Co 6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
1Co 6:6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
1Co 6:7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
1Co 6:8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
1Co 6:9 ¶ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Paul said we shouldn't use civil courts.
But maybe using the church to settle disputes is better than handing each other over to Roman soldiers.

.
In Acts 25, it shows Paul voluntarily appealing to Caesar:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7453406/
I appeal to Caesar! Acts 25:11

Acts 25:11 For if I be an offender, or have committed anything worthy of death, I refuse not to die.
But if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them.
I appeal unto Caesar!




.
 
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1Co13

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In Acts 25, it shows Paul voluntarily appealing to Caesar:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7453406/
I appeal to Caesar! Acts 25:11

Acts 25:11 For if I be an offender, or have committed anything worthy of death, I refuse not to die.
But if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them.
I appeal unto Caesar!



.

Yes but he wasn't trying to sue anyone, he was defending his life, but even that was so he could take the gospel to Rome.
 
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brinny

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Originally Posted by Michael Collum View Post
one Catholic related it to me that a number of women in europe were getting pregnant from the priests .

Goodness gracious! When I was young there was an orphanage in my Catholic city for the offspring of priests and nuns. It was not a large orphanage, mind you, but everyone knew why it was there and it was accepted primarily because it meant that the priests were not engaging in worse sexual proclivities.

:eek:

why would these fathers (priests) essentially abandon their own children, as if they didn't exist?

Orphanages??
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Yes but he wasn't trying to sue anyone, he was defending his life, but even that was so he could take the gospel to Rome.

the not using civil court was when christians were resolving matters between one another . it was considered a failure if we couldn't resolve the matters without the use of the civil justice system .

since then christians have taken arms up against one another and split in thousands of different directions . the church is a failure . civil mediation is required to keep us peaceful .
 
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GratiaCorpusChristi

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If it were not for the Jews i wouldn't have the OT but it was not put into cannon yet till the church did it, do i now give credit to the pope for the book of Genesis?

What has the pope got to do with it? The papacy had almost nothing to do with the process of canon formation.

And the book of Genesis was definitely in the canon before the church existed. Although you could also argue that the entire Old Testament needed to be incorporated into the Christian canon since there was a major debate about the validity of the Old Testament as a whole in the early church.

If it were not for the scribes and pharisees we wouldn't have a bible.

And we should appreciate them more than we do.

Except, wait... wouldn't we? I mean, obviously not without the scribes, but what have the Pharisees got to do with it?

The Jewish people should be thankful that someone put their holy books into cannon form, thereby preserving it. :)

Moses was lucky to have the Popes Church.

What has the pope got to do with it? The papal had very little to do with the process of canon formation.

And... the Jewish people had their own independent method for scribal transmission and canon formation.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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Paul said we shouldn't use civil courts. But maybe using the church to settle disputes is better than handing each other over to Roman soldiers.

<snip>

In Acts 25, it shows Paul voluntarily appealing to Caesar:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7453406/
I appeal to Caesar! Acts 25:11

Acts 25:11 For if I be an offender, or have committed anything worthy of death, I refuse not to die.
But if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them.
I appeal unto Caesar!

the not using civil court was when christians were resolving matters between one another . it was considered a failure if we couldn't resolve the matters without the use of the civil justice system .

since then christians have taken arms up against one another and split in thousands of different directions . the church is a failure . civil mediation is required to keep us peaceful .

Michael, it is indeed a failure when Christians can not resolve disputes among themselves as we are told in Matt. 18. We still fail at this daily as can be seen here in GT.:D^_^

It is not the Church which has failed, we know that as Christ promised "the gates of hell can not prevail against" the Church; it us mankind, something that Adam and Eve started, something that we have continued not just today, not just in the time of Christ, but right back to the time of the fall. The Church is perfect, it is us who are not.

We must also be mindful that Christ Himself submitted to both the authority of the Church (surrendering to the Sanhedrin); and the state (a heathen state at that) before Pilate in order to fulfill God's Word.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Michael, it is indeed a failure when Christians can not resolve disputes among themselves as we are told in Matt. 18. We still fail at this daily as can be seen here in GT.:D^_^

It is not the Church which has failed, we know that as Christ promised "the gates of hell can not prevail against" the Church; it us mankind, something that Adam and Eve started, something that we have continued not just today, not just in the time of Christ, but right back to the time of the fall. The Church is perfect, it is us who are not.

We must also be mindful that Christ Himself submitted to both the authority of the Church (surrendering to the Sanhedrin); and the state (a heathen state at that) before Pilate in order to fulfill God's Word.

hmmmm so yes .. the church Jesus speaks of cannot fail .. so what did fail .. is not his church then?

profound question .. i'll live in that one .. and let God judge the answer .
 
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