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So then you were forgiven of your sins before you came to Christ? You’re assuming that’s what He meant but your assumption doesn’t line up with scripture because in order to be forgiven of our sins we must first repent and believe. If the propitiation took place at the cross that would mean that we were forgiven before we repented and believed.That’s not supported biblically. “It is finished” means just that. Our debt, being canceled out, happened at the cross.
My sins were atoned for at the cross. God’s wrath against my sins was satisfied at the cross. That’s what propitiation is.So then you were forgiven of your sins before you came to Christ? You’re assuming that’s what He meant but your assumption doesn’t line up with scripture because in order to be forgiven of our sins we must first repent and believe. If the propitiation took place at the cross that would mean that we were forgiven before we repented and believed.
Fire equals judgment in scripture.No it is not it is (the lake of fire) a place for people to go who do not have the life of God.
I’m still curious as to your definition of propitiation as used in 1 John.
Fire equals judgment but that does not mean fire equals judgment every time it is used in The Bible.Fire equals judgment in scripture.
That still doesn’t give a definition for propitiation.1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
Jesus is our atonement (making-one), He enables us to be one with God. This is true for the whole world, Jesus sacrifice has enabled the whole world to be one with God.
Joh 3:16-17 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
1Ti 2:4-6 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,
The sacrifice is universal, but not all men receive it.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
Eternal punishment doesn’t sound like it’s just bad for unbelievers. It sounds like judgement.Fire equals judgment but that does not mean fire equals judgment every time it is used in The Bible.
The only mention of beings being tormented in the lake of fire is satan, the beast and false prophet.
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
All The Bible states about unbelievers is that they are cast into the lake of fire. Sure that will be bad for an unbeliever not being to live eternally with God on the new earth. But there is simply no mention of the unbeliever being tormented like The Bible does of satan etc..
Fire equals judgment in scripture.
My sins were atoned for at the cross. God’s wrath against my sins was satisfied at the cross. That’s what propitiation is.
The Greek word for propitiation by definition is atonement (making one). That is why I wrote what I did.That still doesn’t give a definition for propitiation.
Please re-read my statement.“Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
Acts 2:38 NASB1995
“Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;”
Acts 3:19 NASB1995
Jesus had already been crucified when Peter said this. Are you saying that their sins were already forgiven before they repent and believe?
You added “enabled”. I don’t see that in any definition.The Greek word for propitiation by definition is atonement (making one). That is why I wrote what I did.
You’re dodging the question, are you saying that these people were forgiven before they repented and believed? Just because Jesus paid the price at the cross doesn’t mean that you received it at the time of His crucifixion. We don’t receive atonement until we repent and believe and I just proved that with Peter’s statement.Please re-read my statement.
“And Jesus said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered this fate? I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem? I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.” And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any. And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’ And he answered and said to him, ‘Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’ ””My sins were atoned for at the cross. God’s wrath against my sins was satisfied at the cross. That’s what propitiation is.
When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.You’re dodging the question, are you saying that these people were forgiven before they repented and believed? Just because Jesus paid the price at the cross doesn’t mean that you received it at the time of His crucifixion. We don’t receive atonement until we repent and believe and I just proved that with Peter’s statement.
The debt is cancelled for all, but it's receipt is conditional and based upon believing in Him. God sets the conditions in His word. People in the US can write Wills that are conditinal, so why can;t receipt of God's provision be conditional?That’s not supported biblically. “It is finished” means just that. Our debt, being canceled out, happened at the cross.
When you say “cancelled for all”, does that mean God’s wrath is no longer on any person ever?The debt is cancelled for all, but it's receipt is conditional and based upon believing in Him. God sets the conditions in His word. People in the US can write Wills that are conditinal, so why can;t receipt of God's provision be conditional?
John 3:14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”John 5:24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
It is common for people to say that God doesn’t send people to hell. Even after death they can’t stand submitting to him. In that case, God might now be ok with them and they still aren’t saved.Outside of universalism isn't that the only view we're left with?
I agree that only some are saved as seen by reading the Bible. The discretion is up to men as God did not make any into sock-puppeted yes-men and does not have favorites (Romans 2:11),.Outside of universalism isn't that the only view we're left with?
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