Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!

[1stcenturylady]

IMO, most BACs with the Spirit baptism (at some point)
have knowingly and willingly committed a sin.
It must be confessed and repented-of
just like all sins committed by everyone.
And what does the baptism have to do with it?

The baptism is what separates us from being under the law of sin and death to being under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ. Romans 8:2 Many Charismatics believe the evidence of having the baptism is gifts, no it is freedom from sin. Romans 6:2 and Romans 8:9. Gifts are a plus, but not always in operation moment by moment. The Spirit super-sensitized our conscience to make us avoid temptations.

Let me ask you something. Do you believe Galatians 5:19-21 are Christians? OSASers do, believing that "not inheriting the Kingdom of God" is merely a lack of rewards. I don't. I believe those belonging to Christ walk in the Spirit, and those who don't love Christ, but just want Him to get them into heaven, love darkness and won't be saved. This is why Paul warned to not quench the Spirit.

 

[BCsenior]

The baptism is what separates us from being under the law of sin and death to being under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ. Romans 8:2 Many Charismatics believe the evidence of having the baptism is gifts, no it is freedom from sin. Romans 6:2 and Romans 8:9. Gifts are a plus, but not always in operation moment by moment. The Spirit super-sensitized our conscience to make us avoid temptations. Do you believe Galatians 5:19-21 are Christians? OSASers do, believing that "not inheriting the Kingdom of God" is merely a lack of rewards. I don't. I believe those belonging to Christ walk in the Spirit, and those who don't love Christ, but just want Him to get them into heaven, love darkness and won't be saved. This is why Paul warned to not quench the Spirit.

Romans 8:1 ... Must one have the baptism to walk according to the Spirit?

Must one have the baptism to have been set free from the bondage of sin? Many verses in this thread ...
The Word came from heaven to free people from sin!

Galatians 5:19-21 are Christians.
Attaining the kingdom is analogous to obtaining heaven.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Romans 8:1 ... Must one have the baptism to walk according to the Spirit?

Must one have the baptism to have been set free from the bondage of sin?
The Word came from heaven to free people from sin!

Galatians 5:19-21 are Christians.
Attaining the kingdom is analogous to obtaining heaven.

Romans 8:1 - yes, one must have the baptism of the Holy Spirit to walk according to the Spirit, and to be set free from the bondage of sin. I'm thinking you believe that it is only the second filling for gifts that is the "baptism." I have much more to say on this if you are interested.

Galatians 5:19-21 are Christians? And yet, you say that those who practice these things will not go to heaven. So not all Christians will be saved. Explain further.

 

[BCsenior]

Romans 8:1 - yes, one must have the baptism of the Holy Spirit to walk according to the Spirit, and to be set free from the bondage of sin. I'm thinking you believe that it is only the second filling for gifts that is the "baptism." I have much more to say on this if you are interested.
Galatians 5:19-21 are Christians? And yet, you say that those who practice these things will not go to heaven. So not all Christians will be saved. Explain further.

1) I am interested, yes ... never heard this stuff before.
2) Not all BACs will be saved, yes.
IMO, all of the dire warnings about BACs losing salvation, gaining eternal death, etc. are NOT exaggerations, bluffs, lies even. NO! They are genuine warnings, not only to get BACs on the right path, but to promise what the dire results will be for those who don't heed the warnings!

You've already said that Jesus came to set BACs free from sin, i.e. BACs no longer have to sin!
Ergo, they have no excuse for continuing in habitual sin.
Unrepented sin > no holiness > no heaven

 

[1stcenturylady]

1) I am interested, yes.
2) Not all BACs will be saved, yes.
IMO, all of the dire warnings about BACs losing salvation, gaining eternal death, etc. are NOT exaggerations, bluffs, lies even. NO! They are genuine warnings,
not only to get BACs on the right path, but to promise what the results are for those who don't heed them.

2. It all comes down to the definition of being born again. A born again Christian does not sin. An in-name-only Christian who has never experienced the killing of the old man, and received a new nature replacing it, is not born again. They are powerless to fight the flesh. This is why I do not believe the idolators, adulterers and sorcerers of Galatians 5:19-21 are even lukewarm Christians.

I'm sick today, so will tackle No. 1 later. Don't let me forget.

 

[BCsenior]

2. A born again Christian does not sin. An in-name-only Christian who has never experienced the killing of the old man, and received a new nature replacing it, is not born again. They are powerless to fight the flesh. This is why I do not believe the idolators, adulterers and sorcerers of Galatians 5:19-21 are even lukewarm Christians.
I'm sick today, so will tackle No. 1 later. Don't let me forget.

Okay, so you believe it takes more than just
receiving the Holy Spirit inside ... to be born-again.
Paul says believers are new creations.
Which believers might these be?

IMO, when you initially received the Holy Spirit,
you were born again and became a new creation.
You were freed from the power and bondage of sin,
but you indeed could CHOOSE to continue to sin.
1st birth: physical ... 2nd birth: spiritual

And this is what all of the many dire warnings are all about ... they are warnings to BACs to STOP SINNING,
or else they will be rejected & NOT allowed into heaven.
Only the holy will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

 

[1stcenturylady]

Okay, so you believe it takes more than just
receiving the Holy Spirit inside ... to be born-again.
Paul says believers are new creations.
Which believers might these be?

The question is how do you receive the Holy Spirit? You must first repent and have the desire to be cleansed of all sin, even the desire to sin in order to follow Jesus. Acts 2:38-39 This is what many never do. It is like me and Queen Elizabeth. My mother was from Australia so I love her queen. But, I'm an American, and though I love Queen Elizabeth she has no power over me. There is a difference in loving Jesus, and making Him your Lord. Only those with a healthy fear of the Lord can actually be His disciple.

Being a new creation is not positional, but literal. The old man must be killed by Jesus in order to receive His Spirit. But first you must do paragraph one. The Laodecian church is full of God's vomit. Jesus is still on the outside knocking. They are neither hot nor cold, but lukewarm.

The only sign one has the Spirit of Jesus is if they are no longer in the flesh, obeying its lusts. Romans 8:9

 

[1stcenturylady]

IMO, when you initially received the Holy Spirit,
you were born again and became a new creation.
You were freed from the power and bondage of sin,
but you indeed could CHOOSE to continue to sin.
1st birth: physical ... 2nd birth: spiritual

And this is what all of the many dire warnings are all about ... they are warnings to BACs to STOP SINNING,
or else they will be rejected & NOT allowed into heaven.
Only the holy will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

When you are baptized with the Holy Spirit there is an immediate hatred of sin. You love what God loves, and hate what He hates. This is the new nature, whereas the old nature loved to sin and fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Like you, I agree we can choose to sin if we force ourselves to, but it won't be in our nature. We soon learn, it is better to abstain from the sin in order to not be clobbered with the guilt trip.

 

[1stcenturylady]

And this is what all of the many dire warnings are all about ... they are warnings to BACs to STOP SINNING,
or else they will be rejected & NOT allowed into heaven.
Only the holy will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

Yes, I agree. It is the same warning that Jesus gave the Ephesian church. Losing your first love is because of engaging in sin. "If you LOVE Me, keep my commandments." Taking their candlestick would be the same as returning to perdition. The Holy Spirit keeps us from sinning, so do not quench the Spirit. That is a command, not a suggestion.

Gotta go rest. I'll tell you the difference between the first and second baptism later.

 

[BCsenior]

I'll tell you the difference between the first and second baptism later.

Really appreciate your input ... but, just gotta tell you:
I've met a lot of women on Christian forums
who are hung up on their spiritual experiences!
And they tend to apply them to everyone.
Me, I'm the opposite ... I'm only interested
in applying the NT verses to everyone!
The NT was written to instruct all BACs.

 

[klutedavid]

If that were true God would not warn Christians to repent in the bible because if what you say is true, they would have no need to repent of any sins since they are supposedly already forgiven yet we do read that Christians are warned to repent of sins.

One of many examples:

Rev 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Rev 2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

What are the 'first works' in those verses you quoted?

What is the 'first love' also mentioned in those same verses?

 

[1stcenturylady]

Really appreciate your input ... but, just gotta tell you:
I've met a lot of women on Christian forums
who are hung up on their spiritual experiences!
And they tend to apply them to everyone.
Me, I'm the opposite ... I'm only interested
in applying the NT verses to everyone!
The NT was written to instruct all BACs.

That is too bad. Actually it is the other way around. I base all my experiences on Scripture. In fact, they confirm the truth of Scripture. While others who don't have the Spirit want to change Scripture to match their lack of experience. There are many who want to change Scripture to say "practice, rather than commit." Others say we will always be in the flesh until we die, when Scripture plainly says a Christian is NOT in the flesh but in the Spirit, IF we actually have the Spirit of God in us. And many verses besides the rest of verse 9 say a real Christian does not sin.

Thanks anyway for the discussion. I'll leave you on your own with your scripture contradicting errors. You obviously have your mind made up based on your own experience and that I'm some kind of befuddled, muddle-headed, forum trolling old kook!

 

[BCsenior]

You obviously have your mind made up based on your own experience and that I'm some kind of befuddled, muddle-headed, forum old kook!

No, I do not believe that about you at all!
Why should you be upset about my experiences
with many women on Christian forums?

You obviously have your mind made up based on
your own experience, and think that I'm in error.
(We all think everyone's in error about something.)

 

[bling]

Thanks for your observation. My question though is how can the "sins past over' were forgiven when the cross was not yet instituted? In other words, before the cross, there was no blood of Jesus to propitiate for sin. So how can those past sins said to be forgiven through His blood?

This has to do with atonement which is a huge topic, but I will try to give you something to think about:

Right there is no blood of Jesus for everyone prior to the cross, so does that mean God does not have the Love or power to forgive sins?

“Propitiations” might not be the best word to describe Christ’s atonement sacrifice.

Some see the problem as being God’s “problem” so He needs a change His attitude in order to forgive man, but is God unchangeable?

Some others see propitiation as being the changing of man (man has the problem) so God’s constant Love can be consistent in forgiving man?

The prophets tell us repent seek God’s forgiveness and He will forgive you (King David was forgiven of a horrendous offence). You could be forgiven of minor sins with a bag of flour in the atonement process (Lev.5).

What was the “problem” with God forgiving sins prior to the cross?

Ro. 3:25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—

God forgiving sins prior to the cross did not show His righteousness (God is always righteous) so what were we not seeing?

Again Ro. 3:25 tells us we do not see the punishment of the sinner (sin cannot be punished only the sinner), so how do we see (experience) punishment/discipline today?

Crucifixion is the fair just discipline for those who accept God’s discipline and today we can be crucified with Christ experience all the pain and sorrow He felt. Prior to the cross forgiven sinners could not be crucified with Christ, but could be forgiven.

Sins prior to the cross are not said to be “Through Christ’s blood”. Christ’s Blood cleanses us and makes us holy. Prior to the cross most everything in the temple was cleansed with animal blood, even the people, but that was only outwardly. Today, we have become blood thirsty in that we must drink Christ’s blood in the form of wine flowing over our heart, cleansing our hearts.

 

[BCsenior]

Another passage has been brought
to my attention recently …

“Yes, I am afraid that when I come again …
I will be grieved because many of you have not given up your old sins. You have not repented of your impurity, sexual immorality, and eagerness for lustful pleasure.” (2 Corinthians 12:21)
Immediately following this (in 2 Corinthians 13:1-10), Paul warns and threatens: if the habitual sinners do not repent, he must exercise his authority to punish them!

How different in most churches today ... where most pastors couldn't care less if the members continue to be habitual sinners!

 

[Ronald]

There are misinterpretations of the Bible that we are witnessing on this thread.
Here are truths that apparently some of you do not understand:
Christ died for our sins - all of them, past, present and future. Consider if He did not and only for past sins, we would have to ask numerous times a day, everyday to forgive each and every unloving action or thought. This is putting Him back on the cross for every passing fleshly selfish act.
God operates outside our time domain, in eternity. He sees all, therefore forgives all. We still sin and we still confess our sins to Him and each other because we STILL HAVE SIN THAT DWELLS IN THE MEMBERS OF OUR FLESH. BUT NEWSFLASH: OUR SPIRITS ARE PURELY CLEANSED FOR ALL TIME. Which means at any given moment, if you were caught off guard and were killed instantly before you had a chance to confess your last sin, your salvation is secure, you are saved_ because salvation/faith is a GIFT. It can't be earned and by the way, unbeknownst to many, it cannot be lost.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast," Eph. 2:8, 9
Not or yourselves! That means before we are saved AND after we are saved. Because God gives a gift, His gift is sealed, secure ... otherwise our faith would be threatened, weakened, by the idea that we could lose it and we could never know for sure.

"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." John 1:12
"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death." Rom.8:1, 2
No condemnation means not just for prior sins, BUT FOR ALL SINS. WE ARE FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH - WE CANNOT FALL AWAY AND THEN DIE, WE ARE FREE OF THAT HAPPENING!
FREE MEANS FREE. WE DON'T KEEP PUTTING CHRIST BACK ON THE CROSS FOR EVERY SINGLE SIN AFTER WE ARE TRANSFORMED INTO A NEW CREATURE, BORN AGAIN. Of course we have some ignorant people who speak against "these born again Christians", who have no understanding of what that means. They are not secure, in fear and that leads to them pointing fingers at others in judgment.

"And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you,, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you."
This is security, it is a gift, a promise that we can depend on. It's a done deal!

"And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever - the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you." John 14:16, 17
God does things with perfection and purpose. He does not draw His sheep, cleanse them, give them a gift of salvation/eternal life, and dwells in them for a trial period to see if any sins turn up that would cause Him to evacuate. HE KNOWS THE BEGINNING FROM THE END. HE IS FAITHFUL!

"You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law ..." Gal. 3:1-3, 13
Shall I explain this passage? No, if you don't get it, you don't get it.

"For we know that if our earthly house of our tabernacle be dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens." 2 Cor. 5:1
We know this. It is not some shallow promise that maybe we'll make it, it is certain, WE KNOW.
"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the LORD." 2 Cor. 5:8
"But in keeping with His promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness." 2 Peter 3:13
"Jesus answered and said to him, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.'" John 3:3


Don't know about the rest of you, but I'm saved, my salvation is secure, the Spirit of God dwells in me. Christ has redeemed - not just for past sins, for all time! And no one, no power, can snatch me out of the Father's hand.
This is not boasting, it is a fact for those who are born again. OSAS

 

[Lost4words]

You are not saved if you sin and sin and sin and dont ask for forgiveness. Jesus did not suffer and die so that one could sin freely without a care.

Remember, He sent out the Apostles to forgive sins.

He also gave us the Our Father prayer...remember the line about sins!

 

[BCsenior]

You are not saved if you sin and sin and sin and dont ask for forgiveness.
Jesus did not suffer and die so that one could sin freely without a care.

Yes, thanks for sharing, brother.

Just in the past year or so ...
I got the revelation that ...

The #1 reason the Word (to be Jesus)
came down from heaven was to enable
BACs to be FREE from sin,
i.e. FREE from their sin nature!

Those who go along with God's will of being
victorious over (overcoming) their sins
become fully sanctified unto holiness ...
and are thus ready to be allowed into heaven!

And this explains ...
ALL of the MANY NT verses that
WARN against habitual sinning!

Habitual sinning can be defined as
sinning without any repentance.

 

[Corinthi]

Okay, so you believe it takes more than just
receiving the Holy Spirit inside ... to be born-again.
Paul says believers are new creations.
Which believers might these be?

IMO, when you initially received the Holy Spirit,
you were born again and became a new creation.
You were freed from the power and bondage of sin,
but you indeed could CHOOSE to continue to sin.
1st birth: physical ... 2nd birth: spiritual

And this is what all of the many dire warnings are all about ... they are warnings to BACs to STOP SINNING,
or else they will be rejected & NOT allowed into heaven.
Only the holy will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

 

[Corinthi]

Hi confused again. If we all sin even BAC how do we stop. Our sins are numerous, sometimes we sin without knowing. We are not fully in control of everything are we. Every day every act. I feel worse as I am already trying not to do anything physically wrong, when I do feel bereft. I know I can be jealous, thoughtless, proud, without even knowing it at the time. When I do I feel bad. So much to learn and understand.

I am know I fear living in hell and I know that I want to reside with God. This life hurts, so not sure I understand