Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!

[BCsenior]

At the moment you were born-again …
you were only forgiven of the sins you had committed up to that point in time!

“For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his OLD sins. Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for IF you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
(2 Peter 1:9-11, NKJV)
“OLD sins” is also in the KJV, RSV, NLT, AMP

“having forgotten his purification from his FORMER sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NASB)
“FORMER sins” is also in the ESV

“forgetting that they have been cleansed from their PAST sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NIV)
“PAST sins” is also in the HCSB

Now for some confirming NT passages …

Paul wrote this to the Corinthian church concerning his words of rebuke in 1 Corinthians that he had sent to them concerning some particular sin(s).
They really needed to be sorrowful and repent.

“… the pain (from his rebuke) caused you to repent and change your ways. It was the kind of sorrow God wants His people to have, so you were not harmed by us in any way. For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience leads us away from sin and results in salvation. … worldly sorrow, which lacks repentance, results in spiritual (eternal) death.” (2 Corinthians 7:8-10, NLT)

“Yes, I am afraid that when I come again, God will humble me in your presence. And I will be grieved because many of you have not given up your old sins. You have not repented of your impurity, sexual immorality, and eagerness for lustful pleasure.” (2 Corinthians 12:21, NLT)

Peter is warning believers about God’s destruction of all ungodly and unholy people:
“Then he used the water to destroy the ancient (ungodly) world … the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed. … He is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed (perish spiritually), but (he) wants everyone to repent. … what holy and godly lives you should live … (you) make every effort to be found living peaceful lives that are pure and blameless in his sight. … I am warning you ahead of time … Be on guard so that you will not be carried away by the errors …”
(2 Peter 3:6-17, NLT)

John gives the condition for the Lord to forgive believers’ present sins:
“But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness (unrighteousness).”
(1 John 1:9, NLT)
“This is an extremely important verse … all men need to be repeatedly purified from all unrighteousness – from all their sins … We must confess our sins and turn from them … We must also confess them with our actions … (John) is talking here about repentance … we must hate our sins and turn from them. This is true repentance.” (The Applied New Testament Commentary;
Dr. Thomas Hale)

2 verses later, John reminds believers to ask Jesus to plead our case before the Father:
“My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.”
(1 John 2:1, NLT)

Believers are responsible for repenting of their sins after they are born-again! They have been given the Holy Spirit, a totally new nature, and God’s word. So, they have been enabled to be victorious overcomers over sin, the world, and the devil. They have no excuse for failing to do this.

 

[mark kennedy]

What if I told you that post is a sin, are you lost forever? Of course you don't have to believe me but there is always this:

Moreover the law entered, that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound. (Romans 5:20)​

Even under the Law, grace abounded more then sin prevailed. Ok, so does that mean grace is a license to sin?

What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? (Romans 6:1)
​

This was something Paul was accused of preaching, his response:

Why not say--as some slanderously claim that we say--"Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is just! (Romans 3:8)
​

Well, I don't want to be that guy. so what about future sins I wonder because obviously the Apostles didn't want us to sin:

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate before the Father— Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:1-2)
​

So he is saying I don't want you to sin but if you do we have Jesus Christ on our side in the courts of heaven. So all things are lawful right? I'm under grace I can do what I want?

And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. “Everything is permissible for me,” but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible for me,” but I will not be mastered by anything. (1Corinthians 6:11-12)
​

Hang on, Paul just admitted that all things are permissible for me and then he changes the argument. He says, 'but not everything is beneficial for me'. Could he be suggesting that sin is a bad idea? Oh that's a bait and switch if ever I seen one, then he has the audacity to say:

Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. (1 Corinthians 6:18)
​

Oh, now I get it, even though I'm under grace some things can hurt me. I can do whatever I want but I can end up doing something that isn't exactly beneficial.

My point is this, yes, you are under grace and your sins do not separate you from God in the ultimate sense if you are in Christ. But it will hurt you, and you will have to face a terrible moment in final judgment when you realize how much that passing desire cost you, maybe even realize it in this lifetime if your lucky.

Of course your responsible for your sin, it's pointless to argue otherwise. Yes, you can sin after conversion, that's perfectly fine, but you will pay a terrible price and I don't mean hell. He disciplines everyone that comes to him and the day will come when you answer for the grace you received. God won't reject you, I'm sure of that, but don't think for a second he won't hold you responsible. If for no other reason, the good that you could have done and chose to chase the wind of your whims and caprices instead. I can imagine many breaking down in tears and repenting in ashes at the lost opportunities, myself included. I think we all will.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Thess]

Interesting concept. I'm listening.....

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

All sins for all time were paid for and forgiven,for the believing ones

 

[Thess]

All sins for all time were paid for and forgiven,for the believing ones

Hey brother, could you give us some verses for your ideas?

 

[Rescued One]

Christians have already been judged and are living the NEW life.

John 5
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Philippians 1
3 I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, 4 Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy, 5 For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

This positional quality of blamelessness is not earned by personal gain, but imputed by the death and resurrection of Christ ( Col 1:22 ). God's power and protection ensure that the believer maintains a blameless status until the final judgment ( 1 Cor 1:8 ; Jude 24 ). In these occurrences, the legal connotation of deliverance from accusation is clearly seen. God alone has the power and right to accuse the believer and pronounce condemnation, but through his grace and power he renders the believer blameless in his sight.

In light of the positional reality, the believer is called to live in such a way as to attain the quality of blamelessness. In these cases, it is evident that blamelessness refers to public respectability as an outgrowth of private moral character. Christians must "make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him" ( 2 Peter 3:14 ). By growing in discernment and avoiding a critical spirit, believers can become "pure and blameless" in an age marked by wickedness ( Php 1:10 ; 2:14-15).
Blameless - Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology Online

Ephesians 5
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth 10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

We love Jesus, therefore we resist darkness! His sheep follow Him!

 

[mark kennedy]

Interesting concept. I'm listening.....

Grace not only saves, it sanctifies and empowers for service. My favorite example is Zacchaeus the Tax Collector. The Jews no doubt considered him a traitor and I'm sure he exacted taxes he was not supposed to. Jesus sees him up a tree and tells him he will be staying with him that night, by far, the greatest honor of his life since the rest of the Jews probably had nothing to do with him. The promised Messiah, a famous prophet, the Son of God wants to stay at his house, of course Zacharias was ecstatic. They have a nice dinner but Jesus' enemies burst in the door and accuse Jesus of consorting with this despicable sinner, I have always imagined him to be a lot like Danny DeVito, but anyway. All eyes are on him, Jesus just honored him way beyond his worth and now he is embarrassing this man. He says, if I cheated anyone I'll pay back four fold, which is straight out of the Old Testament. He says some other things but Jesus says, this day salvation has come to this house.

I don't know what became of this comical character but I do know when he was embarrassing Jesus he did whatever he had to to make it right. That's how grace works, I've always believed that.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Rescued One]

Hey brother, could you give us some verses for your ideas?

John 10
1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. 6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.

 

[Thess]

Christians have already been judged and are living the NEW life.

John 5
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Philippians 1
3 I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, 4 Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy, 5 For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

This positional quality of blamelessness is not earned by personal gain, but imputed by the death and resurrection of Christ ( Col 1:22 ). God's power and protection ensure that the believer maintains a blameless status until the final judgment ( 1 Cor 1:8 ; Jude 24 ). In these occurrences, the legal connotation of deliverance from accusation is clearly seen. God alone has the power and right to accuse the believer and pronounce condemnation, but through his grace and power he renders the believer blameless in his sight.

In light of the positional reality, the believer is called to live in such a way as to attain the quality of blamelessness. In these cases, it is evident that blamelessness refers to public respectability as an outgrowth of private moral character. Christians must "make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him" ( 2 Peter 3:14 ). By growing in discernment and avoiding a critical spirit, believers can become "pure and blameless" in an age marked by wickedness ( Php 1:10 ; 2:14-15).
Blameless - Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology Online

Ephesians 5
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth 10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

We love View attachment 245422 Jesus, therefore we resist darkness! His sheep View attachment 245422 View attachment 245422 View attachment 245422 follow Him!

Wow, that was fantastic.

 

[Thess]

Grace not only saves, it sanctifies and empowers for service. My favorite example is Zacchaeus the Tax Collector. The Jews no doubt considered him a traitor and I'm sure he exacted taxes he was not supposed to. Jesus sees him up a tree and tells him he will be staying with him that night, by far, the greatest honor of his life since the rest of the Jews probably had nothing to do with him. The promised Messiah, a famous prophet, the Son of God wants to stay at his house, of course Zacharias was ecstatic. They have a nice dinner but Jesus' enemies burst in the door and accuse Jesus of consorting with this despicable sinner, I have always imagined him to be a lot like Danny DeVito, but anyway. All eyes are on him, Jesus just honored him way beyond his worth and now he is embarrassing this man. He says, if I cheated anyone I'll pay back four fold, which is straight out of the Old Testament. He says some other things but Jesus says, this day salvation has come to this house.

I don't know what became of this comical character but I do know when he was embarrassing Jesus he did whatever he had to to make it right. That's how grace works, I've always believed that.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Veddy, veddy interesting....

 

[mark kennedy]

Veddy, veddy interesting....

I'm glad you enjoyed it, welcome to the boards btw.

 

[WESTOZZIE]

The thing that I have come to believe about all this--which is really the heart of the New Covenant we are in...is that we are not forgiven sinners now. We are new creatures in Christ. That old man has been crucified with Him and has been buried with Him...that is where my old man is....and yours....dead and buried.

When I came to Jesus I received a brand new life--the very life of Christ Himself as my own life. Gal 2:20, Col 3:3,4, 1Cor6:17. That is the new "I" that I am now....It is not the old I forgiven....and now required to try hard to please God everyday and to repent everyday....That old I...is dead...and God is not interested in it doing anything for Him.

Trying to live that way...seeing yourself as the old I..but now forgiven....instead of seeing yourself as CHRIST in you...as you...before the Father..is setting aside the grace of God and trying to establish your own righteousness based upon your own efforts.

This whole thing is discovered by us by going through the torment of our own Romans 7 experience just like Paul did. He discovered to his horror that the more he tried to not covet...the more he coveted all manner of things...he could not stop sinning--and this is as a born again spirit filled believer!! Eventually he cried out in exasperation to God for deliverance....it was then that he got it...I HAVE BEEN DELIVERED ALREADY!!!through Jesus Christ our Lord. He saw that he died and was now a new person--Christ and Paul as one spirit---so that God now fulfills in me/you /Paul all that He wants done.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
Rom 8:4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

God has done it!! He has condemned sin in your flesh ALREADY....You have Christ Jesus as your very heart now...you do not have a deceitful heart --Jeremiah 17 was pre cross. Your heart is pure....your heart is true and clean and washed and new...you are free to think of your heart as dirty and rebellious if you want to....and that is what such a seeing will produce.
But eventually you will tire of trying to please God by your own righteousness and come through to Romans 8 and the rest of the Spirit.

Paul goes on to tell us that we are not in the flesh but in the spirit--Ro 8:9 That is where we live permanently...God placed us there in Jesus. How to walk in the Spirit?

Only by faith....calling those things that be not as if they are.
Reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 6:10
Daily putting on the Lord Jesus Christ BY FAITH....we believe therefore we speak.....speak what?

I am crucified with Christ....
I no longer live
Christ lives in me
The life I now live...which is Christ living...
I live by the faith of Jesus who lives in me and as me....
Jesus gave Himself for me....he exchanged Himself for me....
I do not set aside the grace of God......for if righteousness comes through self effort
if righteousness comes through confession of sin....then Christ died in vain!!

Righteousness comes through receiving the indwelling Jesus Christ as your only righteousness.

Rom 10:2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.
Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

 

[ewq1938]

All sins for all time were paid for and forgiven,for the believing ones

If that were true God would not warn Christians to repent in the bible because if what you say is true, they would have no need to repent of any sins since they are supposedly already forgiven yet we do read that Christians are warned to repent of sins.

One of many examples:

Rev 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Rev 2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Hey brother, could you give us some verses for your ideas?

sure
mcah7
18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

mt1:2121 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

heb10
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

If that were true God would not warn Christians to repent in the bible because if what you say is true, they would have no need to repent of any sins since they are supposedly already forgiven yet we do read that Christians are warned to repent of sins.

One of many examples:

Rev 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Rev 2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

We will sin until glorified. We repent of sin every day. These people were to repent of specific sins in real time. It does not sound as if these persons were all saved at the time this letter was written.

 

[mark kennedy]

sure
mcah7
18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

mt1:2121 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

heb10
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

What was the point of that?

Who is a God like you,
who pardons sin and forgives the transgression
of the remnant of his inheritance?
You do not stay angry forever
but delight to show mercy.
You will again have compassion on us;
you will tread our sins underfoot
and hurl all our iniquities into the depths of the sea. (Micah 7:18-19)
​

That's what God's word looks like when you clean it up and present it in a readable format. What exactly was the point you were trying to make?

 

[Rescued One]

We repent because we want to please HIM. God is giving us the desire to repent and guiding us to walk in the LIGHT. God won't let us fall from His Grace.

1 Corinthians 15
9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

He doesn't abandon His sheep.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

What was the point of that?

Who is a God like you,
who pardons sin and forgives the transgression
of the remnant of his inheritance?
You do not stay angry forever
but delight to show mercy.
You will again have compassion on us;
you will tread our sins underfoot
and hurl all our iniquities into the depths of the sea. (Micah 7:18-19)
​

That's what God's word looks like when you clean it up and present it in a readable format. What exactly was the point you were trying to make?

I am not sure of what your point is Mark.This verse speaks of God dealing with all our sins.....do you see where some are not forgiven?...[in any format].

 

[mark kennedy]

I am not sure of what your point is Mark.This verse speaks of God dealing with all our sins.....do you see where some are not forgiven?...[in any format].

I was just confused what you were trying to say is all. Micah is an eighth century prophet making dire predictions. Toward the end of the scroll there is a lot about the Kingdom of God and what that will be like. Just wondering what you meant.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

I was just confused what you were trying to say is all. Micah is an eighth century prophet making dire predictions. Toward the end of the scroll there is a lot about the Kingdom of God and what that will be like. Just wondering what you meant.

yes...you are correct. The more I study I see the gospel intertwined with the Kingdom of God as it spreads worldwide.
as here:
acts28:
28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.

30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,

31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.