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Proof the Earth is Flat

Discussion in 'Conspiracy Theories' started by BlessedCreator, Jun 16, 2020.

  1. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    No you've just dismissed my points.

    I answered your question. Haze, atmospheric interference. There's a lot of water vapour in the air, for starters.

    The flat earth model doesn't need the stars to be zillions of light years away. That's a ridiculous idea and I suggest you consider it from the point of view of optics and luminescence etc.

    So, with a good enough telescope and clear enough conditions, the north star has been seen from fairly significant southern latitudes I believe.
     
  2. Cis.jd

    Cis.jd Well-Known Member

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    But there is still problem, why is it that countries north from yours can see it despite the "vapour in the air"? The USA, Russia, Europe, etc should have the same problem in seeing the star, but they don't, it's only Australia and other countries with in that same direction of the equator.

    I'm also interested in the question/response I gave to your 4th reason: on spectrum lights such as optics.. "all go much further than they should for a ball of 40,000 km circumference".. what is supposed to be the result if this was a ball?
     
  3. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    On the flat earth model those countries are all much closer.
     
  4. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    Here's a short vid from Taboo Conspiracy that wraps up a few examples of 'seeing too far', plus the F16 pilot who provides flat earth proof, and that's just the first 5 minutes!

     
  5. Cis.jd

    Cis.jd Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, i know that but even if it wasn't just Australia, all other countries that are below equator of this "fake globe earth" (including that of South America) should not be limited in seeing the North star because of "vapors' as you claim.
     
  6. Shrewd Manager

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    If you want to make a joke of vapours, that's up to you. But it's science and day to day experience, visibility, atmospheric interference, haze, humidity etc. Probably has an index.

    We're saying that's reason that you can't see the North Star beyond a certain latitude - it's just a factor of distance from the monopole and visibility limitations. Make sense?
     
  7. Cis.jd

    Cis.jd Well-Known Member

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    Wow, that made my head hurt. Several problems..

    First problem. At 1:02 of the video, you can see the laser already hitting the edge of the water.. the further he goes, that light will disappear. Why would that laser's light complete disappear at 16:4 miles on a curvature of 4000m and 8inch per mile? It's supposed to be at that exact position. That was visual proof. If you muted him you would not even think this is some sort of evidence for a flat earth.

    Next the F16Pilot.. feviper16 is old news, i don't think many flat earther debaters use him anymore as a reference. Research on him.
     
  8. Larnievc

    Larnievc Well-Known Member

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  9. Cis.jd

    Cis.jd Well-Known Member

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    I'm not making a joke, it's an actual question. That vapor should not affect South America from seeing the North Star if we are on the flat-earth model.. yet they, and every other country such as yours that appears to be on a lower part of the equator demonstrated on the globe sphere models can't see it.
     
  10. LockeeDeck

    LockeeDeck Member

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    There are plenty of experiments with sound methodology that disprove flat earth. Not you need to because the math just doesn't work with a flat earth.

    How much is a "few", can you give an approximate number?


    You know with micro sats you can buy one to launch for like 20 grand.

    And how would that work? Like the actual technology involved how would it work?

    Orbital decay is a factor and satellites are set to crash down at end of life all the time. Also there are several space faring countries, some of which are hostile to the US. Are you saying that all of them are lying about satellites just to fool you about a globe model?

    Not sure what you mean by Cavendish's claim, but a boulder doesn't have enough mass for gravity to be a noticeable factor. If you drop a lead ball and a rubber ball they will drop at the same rate, meaning that primary factor in their motion is the same on both.

    At least you agree that in an enclosed car going a constant speed the ball would go straight up and down. You are right on the idea that acceleration would affect it but scale is the issue here, most of the time it's not noticeable because EVERYTHING is moving together.

    Technically it affects everything, including the helicopter from before but it's too small to notice. It's only on the rockets that you can see the affect. Although heavy artillery does have to account for the rotation of the earth as well.

    So you believe that nasa and every other space faring country is shooting rockets into the ocean just fool people into believing the earth is flat?

    Believing in the FE model is not a small thing and non-christians that believe in that are as ignorant as you.

    To be so amused by the sloshing of water.

    That has nothing to do with what I said. You still haven't accounted for how gravity works in an FE model.

    Friction mostly, but you are kinda correct in that air would slosh around. There are streams and eddies at different layers of the atmosphere.

    Yeah we know that from observations of the sunrises.

    You're implying that these velocity changes would be felt but it happens over the course of 6 months.

    It's also farther away. Also, how do you think the moon stays up?

    You are easily amused by your own ignorance. How does pressure work in an FE model then?
     
  11. HantsUK

    HantsUK Newbie

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    If the earth is flat, then why can I see further, the higher up I go?

    How does sun rise and sun set work with a flat earth? It has to explain how 3 different positions on the earth, one will be experiencing sun rise, another sun set, and in between, the sun will be overhead. At the same time.

    The problem with seeing further than you should is explained by refraction. If refraction was ignored, it would just mean the the earth's radius was larger, not that it was flat.
     
  12. Shrewd Manager

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    Here's an earth curve calculator, knock yourself out.
    Earth Curve Calculator

    Should be some 200ft below the horizon at that distance, obscured by bulge, if you will.

    He's not the only one. Mark Sargent did a whole series interviewing various experts from Navy radar guys, tank gunners, assorted flyboys and even a seals, pumps and o-rings hydraulics expert. Great stuff. Research on it.
     
  13. Shrewd Manager

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    Don't see the issue, it's as though there's something of an imaginary circle drawn at around 10-20 deg S latitude beyond which visibility is generally too murky. I wonder if the infrared filters retired engineer JTolan uses to penetrate the haze for those super-long range shots would assist.

    Have a run through this, amazing long range shots.
     
  14. Shrewd Manager

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    Name one.

    The structure is pyramidal, and it's on a 'need to know' basis. Apparently the top eschelon is the 'Committee of 300'. Ultimately it's the devil at work.

    I've got a bridge for sale on the moon. Interested?

    Apparently based on LORAN. I'm no expert, suffice it to say if they could do it with an array of satellites, a ground-based solution would be a cinch.

    Yep, that's what I'm saying. There are many countries hostile to each other who have been signatories of the Antarctic Treaty since the 50's too, without any 'ice wars'. No resources there to cause dispute?

    I'm saying that gravity cannot be proven on earth as a Newtonian concept ie attraction of masses, because there's no independent variable. Cavendish claimed to ahve done it by hanging 2 lead balls on a coat hanger in his shed, and watching them attract from a safe distance. That's the biggest experimental proof of gravity in history apparently, the Cavendish torsion balance. From it we can derive the mass of the earth and the moon, apparently. Two lead balls hanging in a shed.

    But it's not, in your model it's all independent parts. One air molecule is distinct from the next, the one above is moving at a greater linear speed. And yet the air thins out with altitude. All the celestial bodies are doing their own thing.

    Heavy artillery most certainly does not compensate for the alleged earth rotation. It didn't affect Felix Baumgartner who 'skydived from space' to land not far away from his original starting position. Come on, how high would you need to go before you were no longer 'dragged along'?

    Yep, that's why they invested the Bermuda Triangle off Cape Canaveral. Keep out, rocket graveyard!

    It's a small thing compared to the real knowledge of God. But if you can't trust Him on that point, how can you believe His words on heavenly subjects? (Rhetorical, you as an atheist by definition has no concept of such things.)

    Stuff falls down. Except if it's lighter than air, it buoys up. Satisfied? Gravity works just the same, but better, because you have a level playing field without all these other forces at work such as centrifugal - that you need to theoretically compensate for.

    So if the motion is generated by the earth, it translates to each air particle, dragging the air around, something like a whirlpool. Is that basically what you're suggesting?

    So if there's acceleration we should be able to physically measure the earth's motion through space. Many have tried, none have succeeded.

    The changes would be diurnal. Every day earth rotates in the direction of orbit, and every night it rotates away. So 66000mph +/- 1000mph (equator).

    I don't know. It's a wonder of creation. But it sure ain't explained by gravity and orbits. Plus someone did the calcs on the moon's predicted orbital decay after however many million years and found it should be right on top of us now! Run the numbers yourself.

    Consider a container with 2 stacked compartments, separated by a barrier. The compartment below is highly pressurised. When the barrier is removed, what will happen? Did gravity prevent the high pressure air moving into the lower pressure environment? No, it's a simple case of the 2nd law of thermodynamics at work.

    So the pressurised atmosphere of earth v the super low pressure of near-infinite space, no solid barrier...what should happen? Or the atmosphere should get 'blown away' as we hurtle through space. Take your pick.
     
  15. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    Religion is full of deception and lies
    Science is full of deception and lies
    Government is full of deception and lies
     
  16. HantsUK

    HantsUK Newbie

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    When I climb up a cliff or hill near the sea, I can see further than when at or near sea level. The higher I go, the further I can see. If the earth were flat, there would be very little difference in how far you could see at 100m compared with sea level. That is not the case.

    There are many places where there is line of sight from a hill to the sea, but with lower hills obscuring the sea nearest (that's actually normal). If the earth was flat, you should still be able to see the sea in the distance. But you can't. At least, I haven't seen it. This fits with the earth being a globe, and the line of being over the horizon.

    The observation that you can see further than predicted doesn't prove (or even suggest) that the earth is flat. It just means that the earth's diameter is larger, if you ignore other effects such as refraction, and other experiments.

    If the earth was flat, then seeing a ship approaching from the distance, it would merely get larger. Instead, what you see is that it rises up, the top first.

    Since FE'ers love YouTube videos, here is an interesting one:



    This shows a wind farm of turbines out at sea. Only the tops of the turbines further away can be seen. (I realise this will be dismissed as either computer generated, or the further away turbines where built submerged, to further the conspiracy instead of generating electricity.)
     
  17. LockeeDeck

    LockeeDeck Member

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    OK, I think it's time we took a step back and actually laid out what you believe.

    You believe that secret international committee of 300 people somehow got all the governments and private corporations in the entire world commit to keeping the secret that the world is flat, for some unknown reason.

    And that a major part of the secret keeping is that every government and corporation agreed to faking rocket launches and lying about their satellites but somehow keeping all the technology attributed to satellites still going. All for some unknown reason.

    That ALL of this is done with only 300 people knowing the truth of what they are doing and no one else in these organizations would question why they are lying about all these systems.

    You also believe that the heavily trafficked shipping route through the Bermuda Triangle is cordoned off to hide the rocket graveyard of expensive fake launches.

    You believe gravity doesn't come from mass but from magic apparently, as you offered no other explanation. Similarly the moon stays in it's orbit because of magic as well.

    Oh and that there is a barrier keeping all the air in.

    I think I hit the major points, besides your ignorance on basic physics. Is there anything I missed in your world view?
     
  18. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    The Bible states enough descriptive areas about God's creation for anyone believing the Bible. Should be able to see sciences creation version, is not the Bibles.

    A verse can not get any easier to understand and to the point about the creation of two great lights, than Genesis 1:16. but christians take the moon and because of science have turned the moon into a rock reflecting the suns light. Not one time is there any hint of that being true from the Bible

    Just as to the point (like Genesis 1:16), are verses in The Gospel of John about how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

    that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
    “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
    “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
    You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
    Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
     
  19. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    I'm afraid that's gobbledegook sir. The height of the observer is directly related to the distance to the horizon, as any earth curve calculator will show.
    Earth Curve Calculator

    There are several reasons that objects at the horizon appear to disappear from the bottom up, but none of them require curvature.

    Watch this vid from 4:40 where he shows the effect of light bending.


    The fact remains that in the hundreds of photos and vids the distant objects which appear somewhat submerged should be completely obscured behind curvature.

    Why is that so hard to understand?
     
  20. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    Lol, thanks for breaking the 'subdivision of issues' approach, it was getting a bit out of hand!

    Not quite. I believe that the greatest trick the devil pulled was convincing ppl that God doesn't exist. To do that, he needs to explain away all the self-evident proof of God in nature. So he uses rubbish theories like Darwinian evolution (it rained on a rock and a monkey was your grandpappy), and big bang cosmology (nothing exploded and created everything). Of course, folks love their sin enough that it's easy for them to seize on these patently ludicrous concepts and defend them to their dying breath because of the terror of the alternative.

    So the devil sets up a 'world system' that rewards those who push and maintain the lie and scorns/ marginalises those who speak the truth. Can't you see that now in the cult of covid?

    Now let me confirm your beliefs if I may.

    Nothing exploded, created everything, it rained on a rock, something was born found a missus and had a baby, evolved into a monkey and you came about.

    We live on a spinning ball hurtling through space at breakneck speeds with large bodies of water curving around its exterior by something called 'gravity', but nobody can ever isolate this gravity or detect these motions or curves and the air is velcroed to the ball with everything else, nothing is sucked or flies off into the vacuum of space and yet clouds, birds and bees fly happily around without noticing.

    And you think I'm crazy?
     
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