Problems with Ezekiel 38-39 as Prophecy for Our Time

[BABerean2]

We see that God`s word is talking about earthly Jerusalem which is under the chastisement of the Lord till He comes to deliver and reveal Himself to them.

`The Lord will save the tents of Judah first so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem shall not become greater then that of Judah,

In the Day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem,......It shall be in that Day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of Grace and supplication; then they will look on me whom they have pierced; they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for him as one grieves for a first-born.` (Zech. 12: 7 - 10)

In the passage below the Apostle John said the reference to piercing in Zechariah chapter 12 was fulfilled at Calvary.


Joh 19:34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.
Joh 19:35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe.
Joh 19:36 For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled, "NOT ONE OF HIS BONES SHALL BE BROKEN."
Joh 19:37 And again another Scripture says, "THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED."

We also know the Spirit was poured out in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost, when about 3,000 from "all the house of Israel" mourned for the one they had seen pierced a few weeks earlier. (See Acts chapter 2.)

Based on 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, there will be no second chances of salvation at His Second Coming.
All people need to hear the Gospel now.
There is no Plan B of salvation based on race.

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[Marilyn C]

In the passage below the Apostle John said the reference to piercing in Zechariah chapter 12 was fulfilled at Calvary.

There is no Plan B of salvation based on race.

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The Lord is talking about `the Day of the Lord,` and that definitely has NOT happened. (Zech. 12, 13 & 14)

Now as to race - ` a great multitude...of all nations, tribes, peoples and tongues, standing before the throne...` (Rev. 7: 9)

God in His grace & mercy does included ALL nations...etc. God does not based their salvation upon it however God made each nation and He has provision for them ALL.

 

[BABerean2]

The Lord is talking about `the Day of the Lord,` and that definitely has NOT happened. (Zech. 12, 13 & 14)

Now as to race - ` a great multitude...of all nations, tribes, peoples and tongues, standing before the throne...` (Rev. 7: 9)

God in His grace & mercy does included ALL nations...etc. God does not based their salvation upon it however God made each nation and He has provision for them ALL.

Do you think the Apostle John was confused in John 19:37?


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[Marilyn C]

Do you think the Apostle John was confused in John 19:37?


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Glad you brought that up BB.

1. Jesus on the Cross.
`One of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear.....They shall look on Him whom they pierced.` (John. 19: 34 & 37)

John by the Holy Spirit is referring to the prophecy that said Jesus would be pierced, (in Zech. 12: 10)


2. Jesus coming at the end of the tribulation.
`Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, and they also who pierced Him.` (Rev. 1: 7)

The whole world (& Israel) will see the Lord.


3. Jesus revealing Himself to Israel after the tribulation.
`And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on me whom they have pierced; they will mourn for Him as one mourns for His only son...` (Zech. 12: 10)

Israel sees the Lord and mourns when they realise the one whom they, (their nation) pierced, is their Messiah.

 

[Dale]

No, because God`s word tells us the timing, the beginning of`The Day of the Lord,` which is unlike any other time on earth.

`Blow a trumpet in Zion....for the Day of the Lord is coming, for it is at hand...` (Joel 2: 1 )

Russia is the only nation in the FAR NORTH (northern quarter of the earth) as God`s word tells us. (Joel 2: 20, Ez. 38: 15)

...it doesn't get any further north than Russia.

The phrase "far north" appears in Ezekiel but it doesn't appear in Joel or in Zechariah. The term is peculiar to Ezekiel. The world of the OT prophets is much smaller than it looks to us and Russia might have been off the map completely to them.

 

[Marilyn C]

The phrase "far north" appears in Ezekiel but it doesn't appear in Joel or in Zechariah. The term is peculiar to Ezekiel. The world of the OT prophets is much smaller than it looks to us and Russia might have been off the map completely to them.

`But I will remove far from you the northern army.` (Joel 2: 20)

northern - Heb. `tsaphon,` meaning hidden and used only of the north as a quarter (gloomy and unknown).

 

[Dave L]

No, because God`s word tells us the timing, the beginning of`The Day of the Lord,` which is unlike any other time on earth.

`Blow a trumpet in Zion....for the Day of the Lord is coming, for it is at hand...` (Joel 2: 1 )

Russia is the only nation in the FAR NORTH (northern quarter of the earth) as God`s word tells us. (Joel 2: 20, Ez. 38: 15)

So, Ezekiel is not talking about the end of the world described in Revelation 20 where he actually mentions Gog and Magog? And the battle of Armageddon is spiritual against Israel the church and not literal as you think?

 

[BABerean2]

Glad you brought that up BB.

1. Jesus on the Cross.
`One of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear.....They shall look on Him whom they pierced.` (John. 19: 34 & 37)

John by the Holy Spirit is referring to the prophecy that said Jesus would be pierced, (in Zech. 12: 10)


2. Jesus coming at the end of the tribulation.
`Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, and they also who pierced Him.` (Rev. 1: 7)

The whole world (& Israel) will see the Lord.


3. Jesus revealing Himself to Israel after the tribulation.
`And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on me whom they have pierced; they will mourn for Him as one mourns for His only son...` (Zech. 12: 10)

Israel sees the Lord and mourns when they realise the one whom they, (their nation) pierced, is their Messiah.

Based on what Paul wrote below, there will be no second chance of salvation, at His Second Coming.


2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


The above is confirmed by the words of Christ in the parable of the virgins.
They must be ready before the Bridegroom comes.

You are attempting to ignore the fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10 during the first century, in John 19:37, and Acts chapter 2.

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[Douggg]

The phrase "far north" appears in Ezekiel but it doesn't appear in Joel or in Zechariah. The term is peculiar to Ezekiel. The world of the OT prophets is much smaller than it looks to us and Russia might have been off the map completely to them.

In Zechariah 14 ? In Zechariah 14, it is all nations. Zechariah 14 is 7 years after Gog/Magog.

 

[BABerean2]

Zechariah 14 is 7 years after Gog/Magog.

Can you show us the scriptures which verify your claim above?

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[Douggg]

Can you show us the scriptures which verify your claim above?

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Jesus's return is in Zechariah 14, the mount of olives split in half.

Zechariah 14 corresponding to Ezekiel 39:17-20 as the result of all nations coming against Jerusalem, the dead bodies feasted upon. Jesus Himself speaking in Ezekiel 39:21-29, having returned and setting His glory among the heathen, to rule the nations with a rod of iron.

7 years prior in Ezekiel 39:4 is the feast on the dead bodies on Gog's army, following by the mass grave burial of Gog's army, cleaning of the land, completed in Ezekiel 39:16, after 7 months.

The 7 year period is in Ezekiel 39:9.

 

[BABerean2]

Jesus Himself speaking in Ezekiel 39:21-29, having returned and setting His glory among the heathen, to rule the nations with a rod of iron.

What does the Son do with the rod of Iron?

He does not correct the flawed pots. He destroys them.


Psa 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.


Please show us the mortals left alive on the planet at the end of the following passage.

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

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[Douggg]

What does the Son do with the rod of Iron?

He does not correct the flawed pots. He destroys them.


Psa 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Verse 2:9 goes back to why do the heathen rage and image a vain thing.

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

The kings of the earth in Revelation 16, assemble their armies at Armageddon. In Ezekiel 39:17-20, those armies are destroyed. The heathens collective attempt to make war on Jesus. That attempt will be broken like broken pottery.
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You had asked my why is Zechariah 14 7 years after Gog/Magog. I gave you the verses and why in my post #71.

 

[Marilyn C]

So, Ezekiel is not talking about the end of the world described in Revelation 20 where he actually mentions Gog and Magog? And the battle of Armageddon is spiritual against Israel the church and not literal as you think?

The terms Gog and Magog refer to the northern quarter of the earth and that is still there before the trib, and also at the end of the millennium where scripture mentions people come from.

The battle of Armageddon is a prolonged battle that takes the world`s armies from the large plain of Meggedio down throughout Israel killing 2/3rds on their way down to Jerusalem where God will judge them. (Joel 3 & Zech. 13: 8)

Spiritualising scripture leads to all sorts of false doctrines.

 

[Marilyn C]

Based on what Paul wrote below, there will be no second chance of salvation, at His Second Coming.


2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


The above is confirmed by the words of Christ in the parable of the virgins.
They must be ready before the Bridegroom comes.

You are attempting to ignore the fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10 during the first century, in John 19:37, and Acts chapter 2.

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There will be those on the earth to go into the millennium that looked after the Jews, Christ`s brethren. (Matt. 25: 31 - 46)

So how was Zech. 12: 10 - 14 fulfilled in the first century? When did the Lord pour on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem the spirit of grace and supplication and then they mourned each in their own house and families. Where do you read of that?

 

[BABerean2]

There will be those on the earth to go into the millennium that looked after the Jews, Christ`s brethren. (Matt. 25: 31 - 46)

Please show us the mortals left alive on the planet at the end of that passage.

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[shilohsfoal]

Please show us the mortals left alive on the planet at the end of that passage.

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Christ comes to his kingdom.
There will be a world full of mortals outside of his kingdom.

Matthew 13:41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness.

 

[shilohsfoal]

The terms Gog and Magog refer to the northern quarter of the earth and that is still there before the trib, and also at the end of the millennium where scripture mentions people come from.

The battle of Armageddon is a prolonged battle that takes the world`s armies from the large plain of Meggedio down throughout Israel killing 2/3rds on their way down to Jerusalem where God will judge them. (Joel 3 & Zech. 13: 8)

Spiritualising scripture leads to all sorts of false doctrines.

What makes you think Gog can kill those who God protects? If God says his saints are safe then they are safe.

Ezekiel 38:8 KJV: After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

 

[BABerean2]

Christ comes to his kingdom.
There will be a world full of mortals outside of his kingdom.

Matthew 13:41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness.

And this is accomplished on the day of His Second Coming, based on the passage below.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

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[shilohsfoal]

And this is accomplished on the day of His Second Coming, based on the passage below.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

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Yes, everyone in his kingdom.
But there are plenty of mortals living outside of his kingdom who won't be burned up.

Matthew 13:41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness.

There will be many mortals cast out of his kingdom.

Luke 13:28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves are thrown out.