Pro-Life means sex creates souls?

[Fascinated With God]

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[Fascinated With God]

From my view, the soul is the part of us (not a compartment, but an aspect) that makes us who we are. Our individual identity/personality/mind/will/emotions. It's what makes your spirit Daniel (assuming that is your real name). It's what makes my spirit Steve (assuming that is my real name). lol

Then how do souls go to Sheol separated from the body?

 

[Fascinated With God]

Nor a belief in a past or future event called the resurrection.

OK, how about Resurrection at Death, where the spirit world becomes physical?

I would argue the spirit world already is.

 

[Fascinated With God]

Nor a belief in a past or future event called the resurrection.

Wait, are you saying you don't believe in the Resurrections(s)? There are two, one for the firstfruits, the 144,000, then after a 1000 years one for everybody remaining.

 

[Fascinated With God]

That’s all the delusional spiderweb of deceit stuff. The 144,000 illustrate the believers who escaped Judea before

What about "the ruler with an iron rod"? Needing a rod clearly describes dealing with physical beings. He has not come yet.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

From my view, the soul is the part of us (not a compartment, but an aspect) that makes us who we are. Our individual identity/personality/mind/will/emotions. It's what makes your spirit Daniel (assuming that is your real name). It's what makes my spirit Steve (assuming that is my real name). lol

Don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[Mal'ak]

I address this in the previous post. I don't want to be repetitive (spamming).
I address free will vs predestination to someone else immediately after your post.

Followed immediately by the section heading "Idol Feasts and the Lord’s Supper". The emphasis of the chapter is primarily on food. Taken out of context the above verses are so general that you can use it to justify all kinds of false judgments. Here are excerpts from the rest of the chapter:

3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them...
[...]
7 Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: “The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in revelry.”
[...]
27 If an unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience. 28 But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it..​

Then there is 1 Corinthians 10:21-22 that gets straight to the point on food:

The sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons.​

This was an easy thing for people in those days to get confused about, so the Apostles had to give it a lot of emphases and compare it other nasty things.

Nothing in Corinthians supports your assertion that souls and spirits do not pre-exist. That was not an issue that needed to be hammered in, Jews all believe in the pre-existence of the soul and always have. So there was no need to mention it except in passing.

You are assuming that a microbial worm has a conscious soul attached to it. Souls are always conscious. The idea of an unconscious soul is a self-contradiction. Consciousness ultimately comes from our soul and spirit, the brain is just the last stop. To believe otherwise is materialism, not spiritual.

I see "small and great", but a microbial worm is nowhere on the list. The idea that microbial worms go to heaven is, I think, preposterous.

So the entire verse about God not allowing people to be given more then they can handle is about food, because food is talked about else where? I worry if you read any of the gospels, you will be utterly confused, since the topic in each chapter changes. It is not a story book, there is several messages and teachings in each chapter, some times each verse.

I never said anything about unconscious or conscious worms, I am not sure if you are just off your meds or a seriously poster here on the forms. But nothing you said, was anything about what I said at all, not one word you said had anything to do with what I said. There are trolls on these forums, I probably should not have even replied to you, but just to give you the benefit of the doubt I did.

What I said was that God controls which soul is placed in each baby, because he knows if that baby will die at birth and has a plan whom he wants to not bare this world. But he allows abortion, because it is a witness against those that would kill their own babies. Now if you wish to explain your post, without worms, feel free.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

And we do have one point of agreement, that the spirit world has a physicality all it's own where the rules of physics are very different.
​

When "the elements will melt" I think it refers to the rules of the laws of physics in this universe being altered.

Nah, common language of Old Testament prophecy recorded as fulfilled upon Old Testament nations. Nothing new in the illustrative language of Bible prophecy Peter and others were receiving and quite imperfectly trying to teach about in their letters. Jesus said the knowledge of the time and seasons was not given to the apostles. Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
They simply could not know via prophecy what was to occur 30 years and thousands of years ahead of them. A complete knowledge was reserved for those who have hindsight.

This is a prophecy of the destruction of Edom at the hands of Nebuchadnezzar. Isaiah 34:1 Come near, you nations, to hear; and listen, you people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. 2 For the indignation of the LORD is on all nations, and his fury on all their armies: he has utterly destroyed them, he has delivered them to the slaughter. 3 Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcasses, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. 4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falls off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. 5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down on Idumea, and on the people of my curse, to judgment. 6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD has a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea. 7 And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness. 8 For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompenses for the controversy of Zion. 9 And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. 10 It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever. AKJV
Micah's prophecy about Assyria conquering the northern kingdom of Israel. Micah 1:2 Hear, all you people; listen, O earth, and all that therein is: and let the Lord GOD be witness against you, the LORD from his holy temple. 3 For, behold, the LORD comes forth out of his place, and will come down, and tread on the high places of the earth. 4 And the mountains shall be molten under him, and the valleys shall be cleft, as wax before the fire, and as the waters that are poured down a steep place. 5 For the transgression of Jacob is all this, and for the sins of the house of Israel. What is the transgression of Jacob? is it not Samaria? and what are the high places of Judah? are they not Jerusalem? 6 Therefore I will make Samaria as an heap of the field, and as plantings of a vineyard: and I will pour down the stones thereof into the valley, and I will discover the foundations thereof. 7 And all the graven images thereof shall be beaten to pieces, and all the hires thereof shall be burned with the fire, and all the idols thereof will I lay desolate: for she gathered it of the hire of an harlot, and they shall return to the hire of an harlot. 8 Therefore I will wail and howl, I will go stripped and naked: I will make a wailing like the dragons, and mourning as the owls. 9 For her wound is incurable; for it is come to Judah; he is come to the gate of my people, even to Jerusalem. AKJV.

Prophesied beforehand same exact illustrative language of NT prophecy but these. Recorded as fulfilled in scripture and history. NT prophecy the same, just not recorded in scripture since the NT was done being written. Lots more like this too.

 

[Fascinated With God]

They simply could not know via prophecy what was to occur 30 years and thousands of years ahead of them.

What was resurrectional about 1000 years ago?

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Wait, are you saying you don't believe in the Resurrections(s)? There are two, one for the firstfruits, the 144,000, then after a 1000 years one for everybody remaining.

Dude, do you even read what you are replying too? I already went over what I am quite assured is the doctrine of the resurrection and used a rather large amount of scripture plus an article I wrote to show that the general doctrine of resurrection is not a one or two time prophetic event that will happen some day in the future. Didn't say you have to accept what I say. but if your going to argue with me at least try to understand what I said.

 

[Fascinated With God]

4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falls off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. 5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down on Idumea

That is an end time prophecy.

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.​

 

[Fascinated With God]

4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falls off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. 5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down on Idumea

I missed the most important verse.

Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short."

 

[Fascinated With God]

Recorded as fulfilled in scripture and history. NT prophecy the same, just not recorded in scripture since the NT was done being written.

I don't understand the last statement. The NT has prophecy. What was not recorded?

 

[Fascinated With God]

4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falls off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. 5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down on Idumea

I can understand how your eschatology/soteriology can account for the 1st two events happening in the past, but not the last. If the devil's time was short 2000 years ago why is he so powerful today?

Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short."​

 

[Fascinated With God]

Dude, do you even read what you are replying too?

You dumped a truckload all at once and I have been addressing each point separately. Just because it was part of the truckload doesn't mean I understand your point of view. Quite to the contrary, it makes things more obscuring than if you just summarized and gave references.

the general doctrine of resurrection is not a one or two time prophetic event that will happen someday in the future.

I couldn't connect any of the dots there. I don't see how those verses support the abandonment of the physical world in eternal life.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

That is an end time prophecy.

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.​

These too, end of the world prophecies? Even though they came to pass in history like the other two you are claiming are end of the world prophecies?
This is Isaiah's prophecy about Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon and how the Medo\Persian Empire would conquer it.
Isaiah 13:1 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see. 2 Lift you up a banner on the high mountain, exalt the voice to them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles. 3 I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for my anger, even them that rejoice in my highness. 4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts musters the host of the battle. 5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land. 6 Howl you; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. 7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt: 8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travails: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. 9 Behold, the day of the LORD comes, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. 10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. 11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogance of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. 12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. 13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. 14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man takes up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land. 15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined to them shall fall by the sword. 16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished. 17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it. 18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children. 19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. 20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelled in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there. 21 But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there. 22 And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged. AKJV


This is Ezekiel's prophecy about Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon conquering Egypt.
Ezekiel 32:1 And it came to pass in the twelfth year, in the twelfth month, in the first day of the month, that the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 2 Son of man, take up a lamentation for Pharaoh king of Egypt, and say to him, You are like a young lion of the nations, and you are as a whale in the seas: and you came forth with your rivers, and troubled the waters with your feet, and fouled their rivers. 3 Thus said the Lord GOD; I will therefore spread out my net over you with a company of many people; and they shall bring you up in my net. 4 Then will I leave you on the land, I will cast you forth on the open field, and will cause all the fowls of the heaven to remain on you, and I will fill the beasts of the whole earth with you. 5 And I will lay your flesh on the mountains, and fill the valleys with your height. 6 I will also water with your blood the land wherein you swim, even to the mountains; and the rivers shall be full of you. 7 And when I shall put you out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light. 8 All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over you, and set darkness on your land, said the Lord GOD. 9 I will also vex the hearts of many people, when I shall bring your destruction among the nations, into the countries which you have not known. 10 Yes, I will make many people amazed at you, and their kings shall be horribly afraid for you, when I shall brandish my sword before them; and they shall tremble at every moment, every man for his own life, in the day of your fall. 11 For thus said the Lord GOD; The sword of the king of Babylon shall come on you. 12 By the swords of the mighty will I cause your multitude to fall, the terrible of the nations, all of them: and they shall spoil the pomp of Egypt, and all the multitude thereof shall be destroyed. 13 I will destroy also all the beasts thereof from beside the great waters; neither shall the foot of man trouble them any more, nor the hoofs of beasts trouble them. 14 Then will I make their waters deep, and cause their rivers to run like oil, said the Lord GOD. 15 When I shall make the land of Egypt desolate, and the country shall be destitute of that whereof it was full, when I shall smite all them that dwell therein, then shall they know that I am the LORD. .......... 32 For I have caused my terror in the land of the living: and he shall be laid in the middle of the uncircumcised with them that are slain with the sword, even Pharaoh and all his multitude, said the Lord GOD. AKJV


This is a prophecy of Jeremiah about the destruction of Jerusalem at the hands of Nebuchadnezzar.
Jeremiah 4:5 Declare you in Judah, and publish in Jerusalem; and say, Blow you the trumpet in the land: cry, gather together, and say, Assemble yourselves, and let us go into the defended cities. 6 Set up the standard toward Zion: retire, stay not: for I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction. 7 The lion is come up from his thicket, and the destroyer of the Gentiles is on his way; he is gone forth from his place to make your land desolate; and your cities shall be laid waste, without an inhabitant. 8 For this gird you with sackcloth, lament and howl: for the fierce anger of the LORD is not turned back from us. 9 And it shall come to pass at that day, said the LORD, that the heart of the king shall perish, and the heart of the princes; and the priests shall be astonished, and the prophets shall wonder. .....19 My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart makes a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because you have heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war. 20 Destruction on destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment. 21 How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet? 22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are silly children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. 23 I beheld the earth, and, see, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. 24 I beheld the mountains, and, see, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. 25 I beheld, and, see, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. 26 I beheld, and, see, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. 27 For thus has the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. 28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it. 29 The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up on the rocks: every city shall be forsaken, and not a man dwell therein. 30 And when you are spoiled, what will you do?.....AKJV


A prophecy of Isaiah's about the destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar.
Isaiah 5:25 Therefore is the anger of the LORD kindled against his people, and he has stretched forth his hand against them, and has smitten them: and the hills did tremble, and their carcasses were torn in the middle of the streets. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still. 26 And he will lift up an ensign to the nations from far, and will hiss to them from the end of the earth: and, behold, they shall come with speed swiftly: 27 None shall be weary nor stumble among them; none shall slumber nor sleep; neither shall the girdle of their loins be loosed, nor the lace of their shoes be broken: 28 Whose arrows are sharp, and all their bows bent, their horses' hoofs shall be counted like flint, and their wheels like a whirlwind: 29 Their roaring shall be like a lion, they shall roar like young lions: yes, they shall roar, and lay hold of the prey, and shall carry it away safe, and none shall deliver it. 30 And in that day they shall roar against them like the roaring of the sea: and if one look to the land, behold darkness and sorrow, and the light is darkened in the heavens thereof. AKJV

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

I don't understand the last statement. The NT has prophecy. What was not recorded?

Fulfillment not recorded in the NT the way the fulfillment of OT prophecy about the coming of the Lord to specific nations at specific times were recorded.

 

[Fascinated With God]

Nah, common language of Old Testament prophecy recorded as fulfilled upon Old Testament nations. Nothing new in the illustrative language of Bible prophecy Peter and others were receiving and quite imperfectly trying to teach about in their letters. Jesus said the knowledge of the time and seasons was not given to the apostles. Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
They simply could not know via prophecy what was to occur 30 years and thousands of years ahead of them. A complete knowledge was reserved for those who have hindsight.

This is a prophecy of the destruction of Edom at the hands of Nebuchadnezzar. Isaiah 34:1 Come near, you nations, to hear; and listen, you people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. 2 For the indignation of the LORD is on all nations, and his fury on all their armies: he has utterly destroyed them, he has delivered them to the slaughter. 3 Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcasses, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. 4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falls off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. 5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down on Idumea, and on the people of my curse, to judgment. 6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD has a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea. 7 And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness. 8 For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompenses for the controversy of Zion. 9 And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. 10 It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever. AKJV
Micah's prophecy about Assyria conquering the northern kingdom of Israel. Micah 1:2 Hear, all you people; listen, O earth, and all that therein is: and let the Lord GOD be witness against you, the LORD from his holy temple. 3 For, behold, the LORD comes forth out of his place, and will come down, and tread on the high places of the earth. 4 And the mountains shall be molten under him, and the valleys shall be cleft, as wax before the fire, and as the waters that are poured down a steep place. 5 For the transgression of Jacob is all this, and for the sins of the house of Israel. What is the transgression of Jacob? is it not Samaria? and what are the high places of Judah? are they not Jerusalem? 6 Therefore I will make Samaria as an heap of the field, and as plantings of a vineyard: and I will pour down the stones thereof into the valley, and I will discover the foundations thereof. 7 And all the graven images thereof shall be beaten to pieces, and all the hires thereof shall be burned with the fire, and all the idols thereof will I lay desolate: for she gathered it of the hire of an harlot, and they shall return to the hire of an harlot. 8 Therefore I will wail and howl, I will go stripped and naked: I will make a wailing like the dragons, and mourning as the owls. 9 For her wound is incurable; for it is come to Judah; he is come to the gate of my people, even to Jerusalem. AKJV.

Prophesied beforehand same exact illustrative language of NT prophecy but these. Recorded as fulfilled in scripture and history. NT prophecy the same, just not recorded in scripture since the NT was done being written. Lots more like this too.

You can't just summerize all those chapters like that, in order to be understood you have to give commentary on the chapters as to how it supports whatever assertion it is you are making.

 

[Fascinated With God]

Fulfillment not recorded in the NT the way the fulfillment of OT prophecy about the coming of the Lord to specific nations at specific times were recorded.

Could you be more specific as to what was not recorded? I'm still lost.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

sex creates babies, God creates souls.