Pro-Choice?

[Zeena]

The mother is doing the breathing and the baby is doing the recieving!

So, the mother is breathing, just as she would even if she was not pregnant. The baby is not breathing, as no gas exchange is taking place on the part of the baby.

Yes gas exchange is taking place, in the placenta, via the umbilical cord, which I have pointed out again and again..

From my most recent quote..

Over the next few weeks the placenta begins to make hormones which control the basic physiology of the mother in such a way that the fetus is supplied with the necessary nutrients and oxygen needed for successful growth. Source

Just as the mother is producing milk, and the baby is drinking it as an infant..

Buh? This makes no sense. The mother produces milk, the baby doesn't. I don't quite get what your point is.

The mother might produce the milk, but the baby needs to drink it. Whether or not the mother produces the milk is irrelevant unless the baby drinks it. Not that the baby would refuse, but that the baby is participating in this exchange, every bit as much as the mother is

It's a great shadow of the reality found in Christ, for He died once for all, but unless someone actually recieves that sacrifice as atonement for them, it is useless [for them]. And further, unless once participates in the great exchange of ones life for Christ's Life, His resurrection is useless to them..

 

[EnemyPartyII]

allow adequate sex ed and easily available birth control, abortion rates would plummet. Surely all else is red herrings?

 

[KomissarSteve]

allow adequate sex ed and easily available birth control, abortion rates would plummet. Surely all else is red herrings?

Without a doubt. If we wanted to make them plummet further - God knows I do! - then we would also boost the standard of living for those demographics of young women most-likely to get pregnant outside of marriage.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

KomissarSteve, that is the most sensible corollary to my initial I have ever heard.

Univeral healthcare and subsidised medication would go a long way too

 

[KomissarSteve]

KomissarSteve, that is the most sensible corollary to my initial I have ever heard.

Univeral healthcare and subsidised medication would go a long way too

If only I could take credit for it. No, the man who deserves the most credit for that idea is none other than Bill Clinton. It's for this reason that abortion rates went down to an all-time (post-Roe, of course) low during his two terms...and why they skyrocketed back up under the current administration.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

If only I could take credit for it. No, the man who deserves the most credit for that idea is none other than Bill Clinton. It's for this reason that abortion rates went down to an all-time (post-Roe, of course) low during his two terms...and why they skyrocketed back up under the current administration.

I'm not a fan of much that Clinton did... but anyone who is for genuine, equitable redistribution of wealth can't be all bad

 

[JGG]

If only I could take credit for it. No, the man who deserves the most credit for that idea is none other than Bill Clinton. It's for this reason that abortion rates went down to an all-time (post-Roe, of course) low during his two terms...and why they skyrocketed back up under the current administration.

No! Not Bubba!

I agree with this, but it means people would have to suffer another tax hike. And while I don't mind paying a little more in taxes, I wonder how many pro-lifers would be willing to take a tax hike.

 

[Zeena]

1 Corinthians 13:3
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

 

[JGG]

Yes gas exchange is taking place, in the placenta, via the umbilical cord, which I have pointed out again and again..

No it doesn't. Gas exchange takes place in the same place it does when the mother isn't pregnant: The lungs. The placenta doesn't even handle gasses, it handles chemicals, and nutrients.

The mother might produce the milk, but the baby needs to drink it. Whether or not the mother produces the milk is irrelevant unless the baby drinks it. Not that the baby would refuse, but that the baby is participating in this exchange, every bit as much as the mother is

Its still a bad analogy. What is being exchanged? What about those babies raised on forumla, are they not alive? I honestly, don't see what your point is.

 

[MooCar93]

Its still a bad analogy. What is being exchanged? What about those babies raised on forumla, are they not alive? I honestly, don't see what your point is.

Oooh... I guess that makes me a zombie. Awesome!

 

[Followers4christ]

Actually, abortion is not murder at all. Murder is illegal and is committed with malice. Abortion is neither of those things. So I don't see how the two terms are supposed to be equivalent.

In the nazi holocaust it was not considered murder to kill a Jew,because a Jew was considered a non-human.Just as today we say that the children who are in their mothers womb are non-humans,sound familiar? Just because the law does not say its murder does not mean that it isn't murder.Malice is a legal term describing the intent to harm and if you say that too kill a child does not show any sort of intent to harm (Malice) then I'll have to disagree with you.God Bless

 

[Followers4christ]

Those aren't children. Those are fetuses.

And I'm not arguing that they're "blobs of flesh." Don't strawman.

Genesis 25:22 "The babies jostled each other within her, and she said, "Why is this happening to me?" So she went to inquire of the LORD."

Luke 1:44 "As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy."

 

[JGG]

In the nazi holocaust it was not considered murder to kill a Jew,because a Jew was considered a non-human.Just as today we say that the children who are in their mothers womb are non-humans,sound familiar? Just because the law does not say its murder does not mean that it isn't murder.Malice is a legal term describing the intent to harm and if you say that too kill a child does not show any sort of intent to harm (Malice) then I'll have to disagree with you.God Bless

Same with witch burnings, and the enslavement of African Americans!!

However, in the cases of witches, African Americans, and Jews, they all had circulatory systems, respiratory systems, and nervous systems.

 

[HannahBanana]

In the nazi holocaust it was not considered murder to kill a Jew,because a Jew was considered a non-human.Just as today we say that the children who are in their mothers womb are non-humans,sound familiar? Just because the law does not say its murder does not mean that it isn't murder.Malice is a legal term describing the intent to harm and if you say that too kill a child does not show any sort of intent to harm (Malice) then I'll have to disagree with you.God Bless

The Jews killed in the Holocaust had lives of their own, though. They had friends and memories and people whose lives they touched. For you to compare an unthinking, unfeeling, unknowing fetus to a living human being is monstrous. I am 1/8th Polish (my paternal grandmother's parents managed to escape from Poland before the Holocaust started), so this comment hits me especially hard. Don't you dare try to make the Holocaust out to be as simple as an abortion. Don't you [insert swear word here]ing dare.

Also, you cannot say that a legal issue is murderous without it actually fitting the definition of that word. Heck, I'd love it if killing animals for sport could be considered murder, yet you don't see me calling it that, do you? Words have definitions for a purpose. Please learn to use words properly, according to their definitions, or else expect to be called out on your wrongful use of a word.

And most women do not get abortions for malicious reasons, and the abortionists don't usually have malice in mind when performing the abortion (since to them, it's just another medical procedure, a lot like the way that male gynecologists don't get aroused by seeing womens' "areas" all day). So that point of yours is moot.

 

[Zeena]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Followers4christ again.

Good Scripture reference bro!

Especially Luke 1:44

 

[Zeena]

The Jews killed in the Holocaust had lives of their own..

Satan will ALWAYS attack the most vulnerable first..

 

[Zeena]

No it doesn't. Gas exchange takes place in the same place it does when the mother isn't pregnant: The lungs. The placenta doesn't even handle gasses, it handles chemicals, and nutrients.

Doctors say they DO! =P

What about those babies raised on forumla, are they not alive? I honestly, don't see what your point is.

The babies still have to DRINK the formula! DOH!

 

[KomissarSteve]

Genesis 25:22 "The babies jostled each other within her, and she said, "Why is this happening to me?" So she went to inquire of the LORD."

Luke 1:44 "As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy."

Again, pure symantics. In the Gospels, Jesus called Himself a vine; that doesn't mean that He was literally a plant.

In the nazi holocaust it was not considered murder to kill a Jew,because a Jew was considered a non-human.

First of all, I would ask that the Pro-Lifers in this thread please stop comparing abortion to the Holocaust. As the grandson of a Holocaust survivor, I am seriously offended.

Secondly, your comparison simply doesn't work. The Nazi regime based its characterization of Jews as "subhumans" based on pseudoscience. Our declaration of fetuses as non-humans is based on the fact that fetuses doesn't show any evidence of those characteristics necessary to be considered human - ie: cognitive thought, the ability to survive outside of a womb, etc.

 

[Zeena]

How's about looking at the fact that the babies LEPT!

They had feelings toward one another, and were able to recognise one another AS a 'fetus'!!!

 

[MooCar93]

.Malice is a legal term describing the intent to harm and if you say that too kill a child does not show any sort of intent to harm (Malice) then I'll have to disagree with you.God Bless

I don't know of too many women who go to abortion clinics with an actual fierce desire to cause their fetuses pain and revel in their demise. Women get abortions for various reasons, but I'm not sure that sadistic pleasure is a very common one.