Pro-Choice?

[Zeena]

cellular respiration The transfer of

energy from various molecules to produce ATP; occurs in the mitochondria of eukaryotes, the cytoplasm of prokaryotes. In the process, oxygen is consumed and carbon dioxide is generated.

Biology 101

Several adaptive mechanisms facilitate transfer of gases between maternal and fetal circulation. The partial pressure of oxygen in maternal circulation is higher than in fetal circulation, which facilitates maternal-to-fetal transfer of oxygen via diffusion across the placental membranes. In addition, respiratory changes during pregnancy decrease the partial pressure of carbon dioxide (PCO2) in maternal circulation; thus, the transfer of carbon dioxide from fetus to mother is facilitated. The fetus has adaptive mechanisms that support function and growth in a low-oxygen environment; fetal blood has more hemoglobin than adult blood, and fetal hemoglobin has a higher affinity for oxygen than maternal hemoglobin at the same partial pressures of oxygen. In addition, fetal circulation "overperfuses" certain organs such as the brain.[7] Furthermore, relative to an adult, the fetus has an increased number of capillaries, increased cardiac output, and a higher heart rate.

MedScape Medical dictionary

 

[Zeena]

Whether or not the baby breathes with the help of it's mother or not is not my point!

My point is that he/she does, in fact, BREATH!

And thus being, any Christian who says that a baby in it's fetal state is no longer a member of society, with God-Given Life, has to deal with Scripture that refutes that claim! HA!

 

[flicka]

And thus being, any Christian who says that a baby in it's fetal state is no longer a member of society, with God-Given Life, has to deal with Scripture that refutes that claim! HA!

HA? I don't think so.
You have done exactly what other posters have said...twisted scripture to support your position. There are lots of things that aren't in the bible but Christians have to try and fit EVERYTHING into it and it doesn't work. It actually makes the message of the bible more muddled because now everything in it is open to interpretation by man.

 

[KomissarSteve]

For breathing your lungs do not have to involved!
http://www.elmcare.com/trees/how_trees_breathe.htm

That's using the term "breathing" in a metaphorical sense. (the page even has "breathing" in quotation marks, indicating that the tree isn't really "breathing.")

Trees do not breathe. They respire through photosynthesis.

Did you even read the link I supplied the the post you quoted?
It's from a MEDICAL SOCIETY! :LOL:

I read it; did you? It talks about cellular respiration, not breathing.

I've had enough of you. On the ignore list you go.

 

[Zeena]

 

[HannahBanana]

Whether or not the baby breathes with the help of it's mother or not is not my point!

My point is that he/she does, in fact, BREATH!

And thus being, any Christian who says that a baby in it's fetal state is no longer a member of society, with God-Given Life, has to deal with Scripture that refutes that claim! HA!

He/she might breathe in the metaphorical sense, like KommissarSteve stated, but it's certainly not a literal action, since his/her lungs aren't developed enough for that to be physically possible.

And, last time I checked, metaphorical definitions didn't mean much in a discussion of scientific facts such as this, so I don't see why you even bothered to bring this whole "it 'breathes'" thing up.

EDIT: Plus, since when does the act of breathing mean that an organism should not be killed? Cows, pigs, and turkeys all breathe as well, yet we kill them routinely. So what makes one breathing organism any more okay to kill than another breathing organism?

 

[MooCar93]

Actually... there is a verse in Exodus, I believe, that states if a man hits a pregnant woman and causes her to miscarry, he must be penalized with a fine. Not life for life, which would seem more appropriate if the fetus were as valuable as a fully grown human being, but a monetary fine. I'll see if I can look that up.

 

[Zeena]

Actually... there is a verse in Exodus, I believe, that states if a man hits a pregnant woman and causes her to miscarry, he must be penalized with a fine. Not life for life, which would seem more appropriate if the fetus were as valuable as a fully grown human being, but a monetary fine. I'll see if I can look that up.

Matthew 5:38-39
38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

 

[Zeena]

I can't believe this... I really can't. Are you just pulling our legs?

There are insects and marsupials with NO LUNGS, and yet they intake oxygen by other means.. This is not to say they don't breath, but goes to say they recieve oxygen by other means!

They still breath, for they intake oxygen and exhale carbondioxide!

And yes, tree's breath, anything that is alive breathes..

Tree's inhale and exhale via photosynthesis, the insects and marsupials via thier bodies as a whole, infants through the arterial and venous oxygenated blood gases passed along via the embilica cord of the expectant mother

 

[fanatiquefou]

There are insects and marsupials with NO LUNGS, and yet they intake oxygen by other means.. This is not to say they don't breath, but goes to say they recieve oxygen by other means!

Are you sure? I don't know of any marsupials with no lungs. They're mammals, after all. I'm pretty sure all mammals have lungs.

 

[HannahBanana]

There are insects and marsupials with NO LUNGS, and yet they intake oxygen by other means.. This is not to say they don't breath, but goes to say they recieve oxygen by other means!

They still breath, for they intake oxygen and exhale carbondioxide!

And yes, tree's breath, anything that is alive breathes..

Tree's inhale and exhale via photosynthesis, the insects and marsupials via thier bodies as a whole, infants through the arterial and venous oxygenated blood gases passed along via the embilica cord of the expectant mother

It's not called breathing, though. That's what you don't seem to get. Sure, you can call it respiration, but breathing? No. I have already shown you, through a dictionary definition, that a fetus taking in oxygen does not meet the requirements for breathing (and neither does a tree taking in oxygen, for that matter). What more evidence do you need in order to be able to understand this fact?

 

[HannahBanana]

Are you sure? I don't know of any marsupials with no lungs. They're mammals, after all. I'm pretty sure all mammals have lungs.

LOL. Good catch. Seriously, though, I don't know if this user is for real. She looks to be in her 20s or 30s, judging by her user photo, but she has the scientific knowledge of a third-grader, at best. Hmm...

 

[Zeena]

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...f+Julia+Creek+dunnart+lung&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2 is a link to a marsupial mouse with no lungs during the first three weeks after birth.. It breathes through it's skin

As well, there are a lot of insects that breathe without lungs
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s769094.htm

And here's some lungless salimanders!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lungless_salamander

I LOVE this stuff!

so, as you can see, one doesn't have to breathe through lungs in order to be actually breathing

 

[HannahBanana]

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...f+Julia+Creek+dunnart+lung&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2 is a link to a marsupial mouse with no lungs during the first three weeks after birth.. It breathes through it's skin

As well, there are a lot of insects that breathe without lungs
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s769094.htm

And here's some lungless salimanders!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lungless_salamander

I LOVE this stuff!

Okay, fine. So there are some exceptions to the rule. But fetuses are not one of those exceptions, since, in order for them to breathe and not just respirate, they need lungs.

 

[Zeena]

Oh, but medical science does indeed say that fetus are exception!

As I pointed out previously with those medical links

It's well documented, both in trial and experiment..

infants breathe through the arterial and venous oxygenated blood gases passed along via the embilica cord of the expectant mother

ALL LIFE requires breath!

God's breath of LIFE!

 

[HannahBanana]

Oh, but medical science does indeed say that fetus are exception!

As I pointed out previously with those medical links

It's well documented, both in trial and experiment..

No, they are not exceptions. Otherwise, us humans would not have lungs, and would not practice breathing with them in utero during the third trimester.

 

[flicka]

I don't know why you guys are still fighitng about this. Regardless of how you define "breating" it doesn't mean a fetus is a human being.

 

[Zeena]

Here's a link descibing pnuema
eg;breath

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneuma

John 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

 

[HannahBanana]

I don't know why you guys are still fighitng about this. Regardless of how you define "breating" it doesn't mean a fetus is a human being.

True. It's just aggravating when someone will not understand basic facts no matter how many times you explain them, ya know?

 

[HannahBanana]

Here's a link descibing pnuema
eg;breath

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneuma

John 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

And this has what to do with breathing, exactly (other than the fact that the word is derived from the Greek word for "breathe" that is)?

EDIT: And there you go, twisting around Bible verses again. Who are you to say that God meant "breathed" in the literal sense there? You are just a mere mortal, so I think you have no place in trying to speak for your god.