What the 7th seal does is begin the visions that John is shown for the remainder of Revelation. Those visions show how the events in the six seals he was just shown fit together.The 7th seal begins the week.
Parts are. Matthew 24 does not indicate what begins the 7 years. We have to go to Daniel 9 for that. Matthew 24:15 begins in the middle part of week when the great tribulation begins and continues to the end of the week when Jesus returns, to end the great tribulation.I understand Johns chronology perfectly. What John tells us in Rev 6 is what Jesus tells us in Matt 24.
Imagine just a normal reading, suppose by a 5th grader, of the book of Revelation - after they had read Matthew 24. If you asked them after they read it: where in the book of Revelation would you say the days of GT are found. How many do you think would say in the seals? they would remember the days of GT would be just before Jesus' return to earth. They would see His return in chapter 19. My guess is, THEY would guess the days of GT would be just before chapter 19.
I'm good with that.Parts are. Matthew 24 does not indicate what begins the 7 years. We have to go to Daniel 9 for that.
Matt 24:15 is towards the end of the week. The daily sacrifice is taken away in the midst of the week.
Daniel 12
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
SORRY......THAT WAS SUPPOSE TO SAY...........The 7th seal begins the WRATH.What the 7th seal does is begin the visions that John is shown for the remainder of Revelation. Those visions show how the events in the six seals he was just shown fit together.
The six seals show the beginning of the seven years in seal one, to near the very end of the seven years in the sixth seal, although the sixth seal is not the exact end day of the 7 years - which is in Revelation 19.
New thread on SIGNS.Sure. I also note that you have an issue with the moon being as blood, but you have no issue with the stars falling in Matt 24 and Rev 6 but they don't fall in Joel 2, they withdraw their shining. Well, that's a problem. Why do you have no problem with the stars falling in Matt 24 and Rev 6, but not in Joel 2?
Ok, I'll admit that there is a huge problem if you look at things my way. If you look at things my way you have to look past it saying the moon is as blood in Rev 6 and the moon not giving it's light in Matt 24. I'd don't know, I guess it's a huge stretch to say that a blood colored moon is not giving it's light. It make me wonder what I was thinking.
And there's really not much problem when you look at things your way. All you have to look past is two tribulation periods, Jesus coming in Rev 6 and again in Rev 14, a harvest in Rev 7 and another harvest in Rev 14, the beginning of wrath in Rev 6 or at the opening of the 7th seal (however you want to look at it) and wrath beginning again in Rev 14, and you have an end of wrath in Rev 11 and you have an end of wrath in Rev 16. I guess there is also a slight issue of the stars falling in both Matt 24 and Rev 6 but they withdraw their shining in Joel 2, but that's not really much to consider.
Ok, I think you convinced me that my way has more issues.
PLEASE! Stop moving the 6th seal out of its place between the 5th and 7th! It cannot be moved!CW, you are understanding Daniel 12:11 incorrectly. It "could be" understood exactly as you are understanding it - yes. Meaning between the daily sacrifice taken away and the AoD setup - there are 1290 days.
But the text doesn't say "between". Which there is another way of understanding it as the daily sacrifice taken away and at the same time the AoD setup - there shall be 1290 days from then to something - something not revealed in Daniel 12.
The great tribulation is timed to the AoD setup in the temple. 1290 days from then, something takes place. Which will be the sixth seal event. Otherwise, it is not possible to place the sixth seal event on the timeline.
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
Good! DAniel said "and" not "to."What if you read it like this?
11: And from the midst of the week - that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up - there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days .
Matt 24:15 is towards the end of the week. The daily sacrifice is taken away in the midst of the week.I'm good with that.
QUOTE="Douggg, post: 73274548, member: 243832"]
Matthew 24:15 begins in the middle part of week when the great tribulation begins and continues to the end of the week when Jesus returns, to end the great tribulation.
I see how you work: find two exact words, and without ANY consideration of context, the two verses MUST be speaking of the same thing.Well, I guess your way is starting to have more problems.
Here's Matt 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
2 Thes 2
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Here we see the gathering......right before the coming of Jesus.........BEFORE the day of Lord, which begins His wrath.
I see no white horses in Matthew 24. I see no end of the wrath of God in Matt 24, I see the end of the tribulation..........IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION.
Jesus comes for the pre wrath rapture in Matt 24. The tribes mourn because they realize that they are about to be cast into wrath.........which we can clearly see in Rev 6. No Revelation 19 going on in Matthew 24. It is the gathering.
What if you read it like this?
11: And from the midst of the week - that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up - there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days .
Listen..........I already what you know. And I know why it doesn't work.I see how you work: find two exact words, and without ANY consideration of context, the two verses MUST be speaking of the same thing.
You simply amaze me! Do you EVER consider the context? Anyone can make the bible say anything by pulling verses out of context.
Case in point: the gathering in 2 thes 2 cannot possibly be the same gathering as seen in Matthew 24. Remember, context is KING.
The seals are locks. Each lock when opened reveals its contents.PLEASE! Stop moving the 6th seal out of its place between the 5th and 7th! It cannot be moved!
You talk a good talk, but what about your walk?Well I could read it like that, and certainly have before, but that's not what it says. What if you read EXACTLY what it says?
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
Question.......1290 days to what? The only answer we can come up with is the abomination of desolation because we know there are 1335 days. What if it said there are 1291 days. 1291 days to what? To the end? Can't be because there are 1335 days. The only answer is that there are 1290 days from the time the daily sacrifice is taken away UNTIL the abomination of desolation is set up. But instead of reading exactly what God says and apply it as fact, we reason...........it can't mean that because............. And I can certainly come up with several reasons why it can't mean that. But those reasons are wrong. For us to really understand revelation, we have to go by exactly what God says. And then we have to figure out why the reasons that we think it can't mean what it says are wrong.
No, that is where I am right and others are wrong. And you are missing the MAIN point: the book cannot be opened until all 7 seals are opened first. Don't overlook this point. Almost everyone does. They imagine something from inside the book relates to one of the locks to the book. It is impossible.The seals are locks. Each lock when opened reveals its contents.
I have not moved the order which the locks were opened.
The events revealed when locks 1-6 were opened - covered from the beginning of the seven years to right at the end of the seven years.
Then lock 7 was opened - and what it contained were all the visions that John was shown to take place during the seven years.
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But, differently, you are interpreting the time frame from lock 1 to lock 6 to be over the course of 2000 years, right? Beginning with the rider on the white horse being Jesus.
Well, that is where you are going wrong in your thinking.
All the seals, locks, on the book were removed back when John received Revelation.No, that is where I am right and others are wrong. And you are missing the MAIN point: the book cannot be opened until all 7 seals are opened first. Don't overlook this point. Almost everyone does. They imagine something from inside the book relates to one of the locks to the book. It is impossible.
I wrote sixth seal eventYou wrote, "The great tribulation is timed to the AoD setup in the temple. 1290 days from then, something takes place. Which will be the sixth seal event."
You just placed the 6th seal to AFTER the entire week has finished! "the week" is what is written INSIDE the book. The seals have to be opened before the book can be opened.
What's the difference between distress, tribulation and wrath?yes, and I tend to be post trib. as a result.
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