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Featured Prewrath?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by JM, Oct 2, 2018.

  1. Choose Wisely

    Choose Wisely Forgiven Supporter

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  2. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    You would be more correct to say "a time times half times" because that is the amount of time Satan will have left when Michael and his angels cast him down to earth in Revelation 12.

    In Daniel 12:1 - Michael stands up for Daniel's people.
    In Revelation 12:7-9 - Michael goes to war on Satan.

    The result is a time times half time in both Daniel 12:7 and Revelation 12:14.
     
  3. Choose Wisely

    Choose Wisely Forgiven Supporter

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    I'll respond with:


    And from the time that the Super Bowl begins, and the half time festivities set up, there shall be 30 minutes of game time.

    So does that statement mean the the Super Bowl begins at the same time that half time festivities are set up?
     
  4. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The seals are not triggers. Both you and lamad are doing the same thing - acting as if the seals are triggers to something.

    The seals were locks on the book. The entire book was opened back when John received Revelation. Nothing has to be "opened".

    Instead start writing when the events of the 7th seal take place. But that will throw your entire schedule of events off - because the 7th seal all it did functionally, when it was broken open, is reveal the visions that John received of what will take place during the 7 years.
     
  5. Choose Wisely

    Choose Wisely Forgiven Supporter

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    I have already showed you before that this statement is poppycock and something that you made up.
    Here lets check the scripture again so you can see that the book is opened BEFORE the seals are loosed


    Rev 5
    5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
     
  6. Choose Wisely

    Choose Wisely Forgiven Supporter

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    Well here, I guess this can work for you too.
    Rev 5
    5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
     
  7. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    That's an unnecessay analogy. CW, we understand your interpretation of Daniel 12:11. That's not the problem.

    What we are saying you are interpreting it incorrectly - when considering other events that have to fit in with it.

    Show on the 7 year timeline - how your interpretation would fit. In similitude to mine, as follows...

    day 1..............day 1185 AoD setup..........................day 2475 sixth seal event.......
    day 2520 Jesus returns.

    Everything fits within the 7 years.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
  8. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Yes the seals on the book were broke open back then when John received Revelation.
     
  9. Choose Wisely

    Choose Wisely Forgiven Supporter

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    The analogy was perfect. I was not only showing you how I read it, but I was showing you the only reasonable way it can be read.........given the circumstances.

    Let me repost what I wrote earlier.
    But instead of reading exactly what God says and apply it as fact, we reason...........it can't mean that because............. And I can certainly come up with several reasons why it can't mean that. But those reasons are wrong. For us to really understand revelation, we have to go by exactly what God says. And then we have to figure out why the reasons that we think it can't mean what it says are wrong.

    So there you are.........doing exactly what I said we do. Given the events as you perceive them, you won't take EXACTLY what God says because you can't figure out how to make EXACTLY what God says work. So you change what God says to fit the events as you see them. Why not take exactly what God says and figure out why the events as you perceive them are wrong. And this is exactly why no one can figure out Revelation and the rapture scenario.


    Show on the 7 year timeline - how your interpretation would fit. In similitude to mine, as follows...

    day 1..............day 1185 AoD setup..........................day 2475 sixth seal event.......
    day 2520 Jesus returns.

    Everything fits within the 7 years. [/QUOTE]

    Day 1..............day 1185 The daily sacrifice is taken away..........day 2475 the AofD setup
    day 2520 Jesus returns to gather his elect from heaven and earth at the pre wrath rapture.

    Everything that is supposed to fit in 7 years fits within 7 years. Then comes the wrath of God which starts the Day of the Lord.
     
  10. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    Tribulation g2347 'thilipsis', is most often used in the New Testament to speak of persecution. In Revelations and other places it speaks of wrath. The connection appears to be the wrath that follows the persecution of the tribulation saints like the martyrs under the altar at the opening of the fifth seal.
     
  11. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    On that timeline of events, of the AoD setup on day 2475, the great tribulation would last only the last 75 days of the 7 years.

    What takes place on earth between day 1185 and day 2475?
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
  12. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I am not changing what is written in Daniel 12:11. Daniel 12:11 indicates there will be 1290 days - but it doesn't say in Daniel 12 1290 days till what. Its also says blessed are those who wait to the 1335th day - but it doesn't say what takes place on the 1335th day. It can only be understood by what is found in Revelation.

    Just like it doesn't say what is meant by Michael standing up for Daniel's people. Which the explanation is found only in Revelation 12.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
  13. Choose Wisely

    Choose Wisely Forgiven Supporter

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    I think 45 days of great tribulation.......after the Aof D is set up. And yet there is going to be problems for the entire 70th week of Daniel.........starting with the rider on the white horse going out conquering and to conquer. Then wars and rumors of wars, famine and pestilence. Then the daily sacrifice will be taken away. I think all over the world you will have to worship the image of the beast I just don't see the AofD being set up in the temple until day 2475. That's when those in Jerusalem understand to flee. They are the remnant that goes trough the wrath of God.......protected. The Church is already gone in the pre trib rapture. The 12 tribes (those that now believe) that are scattered across the earth (those that haven't been killed) are raptured pre wrath.

    The problem that everyone has.......particularly those that believe in a pretrib rapture........they don't understand that the 70th week is the time of Jacobs trouble. It is the time of trouble for the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth. The wrath of God is a completely separate event. They get confused by the times, time and half a time. I noticed you did not have.......times, time and half a time in your timeline. Think about that.
     
  14. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    My bro Paul appeared to suffer a lot of tribulation, along with persecutions from his own kin, the Jews.

    Acts 9:
    15 And the Lord said unto him, ‘Be going on, because a choice vessel to Me is this one, to bear My name before nations and kings — the sons also of Israel;
    16 for I will shew him how many things it behoveth him for My name to suffer.

    2 Corinthians 6:
    [2 Corinthians 11:22-28]
    3 in nothing giving any cause of offence, that the ministration may be not blamed, 4 but in everything recommending ourselves as God’s ministrants; in much patience, in tribulations, in necessities, in distresses, 5 in stripes<4127>, in prisons<5438> in insurrections, in labours, in watchings, in fastings,


    2 Corinthians 11:
    22 Hebrews are they? I also! Israelites are they? I also! seed of Abraham are they? I also! 23 ministrants of Christ are they? — as beside myself I speak — I more; in labours more abundantly, in stripes<4127> above measure, in prisons<5438> more frequently, in deaths many times; 24 from Jews five times forty [stripes] save one I did receive;


    Is this a literal 10 days the Saints are in prison?

    Revelation 2:10
    “Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the Devil is about to throw some of you into a prison<5438>, that you may be tested/tried, and you will have tribulation ten days.
    Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of the life.

    Now this is interesting. The exact form of the greek word for "stripes/blows" #2147 used in 2 Corinthians is used 1 time in Revelation:

    Revelation 9:20
    But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these stripes/blows<4127>, did not repent of the works of their hands,

    that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk.

    4127. plege play-gay' from 4141; a stroke; by implication,
    a wound; figuratively, a calamity:--plague, stripe, wound(-ed).
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
  15. Choose Wisely

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    11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

    Sure it does. It tells you exactly what happens after 1290 days. It tells you that the abomination of desolation will be set up............1290 days after the daily sacrifice is taken away. The problem is not that God did not say what happens after 1290 days, the problem is that you can't figure out how to fit this in your timeline. YOU SAID IT YOURSELF in an earlier post. Therefore instead of taking rock solid information to build your timeline, you instead throw away rock solid information. Once you are off course other pieces of the timeline fall apart.


    It's the exact same problem that Iamlamad is having with the signs of the sun, moon and stars. He can't comprehend how the cosmic signs of Matthew 24 are the same signs that are given in Rev 6 at the 6th seal. The signs are almost exact........and yet he can't accept them because he can't figure out how to get them in his timeline.

    Start building the timeline with rock solid information such as the signs of Matt 24 are the same signs of Rev 6, the sixth seal. Also, the abomination of desolation happens 1290 days after the daily sacrifice is taken away. Quit throwing away this information because you don't understand how to fit them in your timeline. Use the information and change the timeline.

     
  16. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    It doesn't even make sense that the daily sacrifice is taken away - then a period over three later the AoD is setup.


    No, it is not the same problem. I can put the sixth seal event on the timeline where it fits... on day 2475.

    CW, I am not the person who has the problem. Everything on the timeline I show fits within the seven years - which ends the day Jesus returns.
     
  17. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    This opinion is quite wrong. It necessitates considerable shuffling of the Revelation sequence.

    The Seventh Seal is a time gap between the Sixth Seal and the Great Tribulation. The SS is the next prophesied event we can expect, the several years later, after the Temple is desecrated; the GT of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls start, then Jesus will return.
     
  18. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The seventh seal was a seal on the book, that was broke open so that the contents of the book could be viewed. When it was broke open, John was shown all the visions in the rest of Revelation.

    Talk about specific events themselves, so we can get rid of all this ambiguity - that plagues this forum. There were many many visions shown to John after the seventh seal was broke open.

    The great tribulation begins when the AoD is setup. When does the AoD setup take place on the 7 year timeline?
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
  19. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    You can go to my post #98 in this thread. But I will incorporate that infromation into the full seven years, here. I just started a separate thread on the 7 year timeline btw.

    day1.........day*...........day 1185 AoD setup.....day 1260 two witnesses killed.......

    day 1263.5 they ascend.....7th trumpet sounds.......war in heaven.......time times half

    times left
    in the 7 years.....day 2475 sixth seal event (Matthew 24:29-30 sign of Son of

    Man in heaven).........the armies assemble at Armageddon.......day 2520 last day of

    the 7 years, Jesus descends to earth and executes judgment on them.
    ________________________________________________________________

    day* is an unknown day on the timeline. This is the day that the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood. This is what triggers the Day of the Lord, which begins like a thief in the night.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
  20. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    May He come soon............

    Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 harmonized

    I have put the Messengers and bowls in order, but is a work in progress
    LUKE CHAPTERS 19, 21, 23 AND REVELATION "DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM 70AD"


    Revelation 15:1 [Revelation 16:17]
    And I perceived another sign in the heaven, great and marvelous.
    Seven Messengers having seven stripes/blows<4127>, the last,
    that in them is finished the fury<2372> of the GOD..............

    One of the 4 living ones gives the 7 Messengers 7 golden bowls full of the wrath of God.

    Revelation 5:8
    Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb,
    each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
    Revelation 15:7
    Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven Messengers seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God who lives forever and ever.


    The seven Messengers come to talk to John and they already have the bowls.
    One shows him the Harlot/Great City and the other one shows him the Bride of the Lamb


    Revelation 17:1
    Then one of the seven Messengers who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me,[fn]
    Come! I will show you the judgment of the great Harlot who sits on many waters,
    Revelation 21:9
    Then one of the seven Messengers who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last stripes/blows came to me[fn] and talked with me, saying,
    Come, I will show you the Bride, the Lamb’s wife

    Then the final Consummation and end to the OC City/Harlot....

    Revelation 16:17
    Then the seventh Messenger poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the Sanctuary of heaven, from the throne, saying, “It is finished!


    The exact word used for the harlot in Revelation is used in this rather interesting verse:

    1 Corinthians 6:15
    Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ?
    Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not!



    .
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
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