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Pretend I'm an atheist. How would you convert me?

BobRyan

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You say that an atheist raises his shields when an atheist tries to debate him. But would you do any different if an atheist tried to debate you? You are absolutely correct in saying that there are better ways.
That is why I said before that love is the key, not debate.

In the end - everyone will at some point compare their views with some other opposing view to see if it holds up. IF on the defensive when they do that - they won't listen... but if in a moment of honesty they will learn something in doing so.
 
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Greg J.

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Pretend I'm an atheist. How would you convert me?



The title says it all.

I went to an atheist forum to preach about God and failed miserably. I don't know if they were closed-minded or I was just too much of an idiot to persuade someone of anything. Either way, I want to be someone who is good at debating on the side of my God.

So how would you approach such a situation? What would you tell me to convince me out of my atheism?

Let's say, for example, that I believe in evolution instead of creationism. What would you tell me? (That's just one example of many. Don't focus on it, please.)
This thread tl;dr.

#1 No human can covert another human.
#2 I have no obligation to you to try to convert you. My obligation is to God, but God didn't command me to convert you. He commanded me to tell you about Him. (I recommend telling people about their experiences of God, and perhaps, but not necessarily, what they believe.) Btw, in general, to be effective an evangelist has to meet the standard he preaches.
#3 You are responsible for your choice. Having that choice is a great privilege granted by God and I will respect it.

I think an answer closer to what you were looking for with your question is: become an apologist. There is so much to it that it can be the primary focus for a Ph.D. Theologian/Pastor/Evangelist. Fortunately you can learn something useful in 2 minutes and don't need to go to college for that. Chain enough of those together and you'll be able to handle 95% of everything you might run into.
 
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Padres1969

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You say that an atheist raises his shields when an atheist tries to debate him. But would you do any different if an atheist tried to debate you? You are absolutely correct in saying that there are better ways.
That is why I said before that love is the key, not debate.
Considering I had a spell as an atheist... no my shields wouldn't go up. But that's besides the point. Debate and love are not mutual exclusive things.
 
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pastor marty

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Pretend I'm an atheist. How would you convert me?



The title says it all.

I went to an atheist forum to preach about God and failed miserably. I don't know if they were closed-minded or I was just too much of an idiot to persuade someone of anything. Either way, I want to be someone who is good at debating on the side of my God.

So how would you approach such a situation? What would you tell me to convince me out of my atheism?

Let's say, for example, that I believe in evolution instead of creationism. What would you tell me? (That's just one example of many. Don't focus on it, please.)
With a hammer ,whoops I thought U said divertathiest.Ya can't convert th'devil;he knows GEODE well, just don't want nobody else 2.Don't start tryin'2 evangelize the self-damned.Start easy,like a bikerbar. Nat. Speach&Debate winner (team) 1965,(help4free/call me)
 
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justbyfaith

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I would just tell an atheist that Jesus said that uness you receive the kingdom of God as a little child would, you will in no wise enter in. And I would leave it at that. It doesn't help to argue with them. Let the Holy Spirit do the rest. The word of God doesn't return void. Isaiah 55:10-11.
 
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BobRyan

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I would just tell an atheist that Jesus said that uness you receive the kingdom of God as a little child would, you will in no wise enter in. And I would leave it at that. It doesn't help to argue with them. Let the Holy Spirit do the rest. The word of God doesn't return void. Isaiah 55:10-11.

Many atheists would agree that according to the Christian world view - atheists do not go to heaven.
 
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justbyfaith

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Many atheists would agree that according to the Christian world view - atheists do not go to heaven.

Nevertheless, the word of God cuts like a sword...Hebrews 4:12, Ephesians 6:17.

Another thing I might bring up to an atheist is that the resurrection of Jesus is a historical fact...there is an empty tomb in Israel...and therefore the Christian world view is something to be looked at more carefully, and not to be dismissed lightly.
 
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justbyfaith

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He lives, He lives, Christ Jesus lives today...He walks with me and He talks with me, through life's own narrow way....He lives, He lives, salvation to impart...You ask me how I know He lives....He lives within my heart!

A personal testimony of how Christ has changed your life also cannot be argued with, if you have such a testimony.
 
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BobRyan

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Nevertheless, the word of God cuts like a sword...Hebrews 4:12, Ephesians 6:17.

Another thing I might bring up to an atheist is that the resurrection of Jesus is a historical fact...there is an empty tomb in Israel...and therefore the Christian world view is something to be looked at more carefully, and not to be dismissed lightly.

The idea of appealing to historic fact is a good one. "The case for Christ" comes to mind.

Also Daniel 2 predicting over 2000 years of world history in advance.
 
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the old scribe

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Pretend I'm an atheist. How would you convert me?



The title says it all.

I went to an atheist forum to preach about God and failed miserably. I don't know if they were closed-minded or I was just too much of an idiot to persuade someone of anything. Either way, I want to be someone who is good at debating on the side of my God.

So how would you approach such a situation? What would you tell me to convince me out of my atheism?

Let's say, for example, that I believe in evolution instead of creationism. What would you tell me? (That's just one example of many. Don't focus on it, please.)
-----------------------------------------------
Likely, you failed miserably because you did not follow what you probably already know. It is a good thing you failed. I presume, if you had succeeded, those converted would have been converted because of apologetics – converted to a reasoned argument. There is a place for apologetics, but I think it only stands a chance one on one where the unbeliever is not intimidated by other unbelievers. There are exceptions. However, apologetics is about preparing the field and not producing fruit.

What is it you already know? It is not your job or my job to convert unbelievers. That is the LORD’s job. Our job is simple. It is to testify to the gospel and what does following the Lord Jesus means to us. Converting unbelievers is not my job. Praise the Lord for not having to carry that burden!

In my college days I presented apologetics to unbelievers and failed miserably – just as you say you did. On the next year’s schedule they invited me back for a roasting. I received boos, laughing, and heckling. I had spoke of the Lord Jesus crucified for their sins and his resurrection - just the simple gospel to hecklers followed by an invitation to confess their faith in Christ. You can imagine how that was received. On the way out the unbelievers were congratulating themselves for shredding the idiot - that is me. After the meeting a single student lingered. He was as the thief on the cross.
The Holy Ghost had done his work and the repentant sinner responded.

Knowing the difference between my job and the LORD’s job has made my yoke easy.

It is the yoke guided by the Master. Carrying the yoke provides confidence and power because it is never ever about me but about the Master who holds the reigns. As such, life is a victory march with my Master through the camp of the enemy.

King David recorded it this way.

“Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.

About evolution -
Tell them to think what they want to think.
As believers we face all kinds of facts presented as evidence against the Christian beliefs.
Some of us must live with that evidence while maintaining trust. Others apply some other model to explain why the facts are either wrong or inappropriate to support the evidence. This is their way of maintaining faith.

It boils down to this. The kingdom of the LORD is not of this world - it is a spiritual kingdom. The Bible is about a spiritual reality revealed through history and not a material, scientific one. You asked about evolution. I have a more disturbing question for you.

If a first century burial chamber was uncovered in or near Jerusalem with a crucified body in it and documentation of the execution order by Pilate for Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews, would you continue to believe?
 
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justbyfaith

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The only way such a thing would even be possible would be if someone put a body other than the body of Jesus there and fabricated the whole thing so as to try and disprove the Christian faith.

I would continue to believe because I have had a very real encounter with Jesus. But I would grieve over the way such a thing might be used by the enemy to shake the faith of some.

Of course it is not a bad thing that we go by evidence and base our faith in facts. If the facts go against what we believe it is not a bad thing that we reevaluate our beliefs. In the train example of faith, facts are the engine, faith goes behind facts, and feeling goes behind faith.

Therefore I know that the real evidence will always point to the resurrection of Christ as being the reality in wolrd history. If there were ever any evidence to the contrary I would say that it had been fabricated.
 
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the old scribe

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The only way such a thing would even be possible would be if someone put a body other than the body of Jesus there and fabricated the whole thing so as to try and disprove the Christian faith.

I would continue to believe because I have had a very real encounter with Jesus. But I would grieve over the way such a thing might be used by the enemy to shake the faith of some.

Of course it is not a bad thing that we go by evidence and base our faith in facts. If the facts go against what we believe it is not a bad thing that we reevaluate our beliefs. In the train example of faith, facts are the engine, faith goes behind facts, and feeling goes behind faith.

Therefore I know that the real evidence will always point to the resurrection of Christ as being the reality in wolrd history. If there were ever any evidence to the contrary I would say that it had been fabricated.
----------------------------
Hello, justbyfaith,
Not everybody can handle conflicting evidence in the same manner.
It depends on the relative value one places upon facts provided either by the Bible or by the physical sciences and philosophy.

You posted, "
I would continue to believe because I have had a very real encounter with Jesus. "

Some where in the faith of each of us is this subjective fact - the encounter with the Lord Jesus.
You added a caveat to this.
"Therefore I know that the real evidence will always point to the resurrection of Christ as being the reality in wolrd history." This is not so much of a statement of faith as it is placing trust - regardless of the presumed facts.

My caution, not intended toward you but these ideas, is that subjective knowledge is open to attack by logic and contemporary analytic philosophy, the issue of subject—and more specifically the "point of view" of the subject, or "subjectivity"—has received attention as one of the major intractable problems in philosophy of mind (a related issue being the mind-body problem). In the essay "What is it like to be a bat?", Thomas Nagel famously argued that explaining subjective experience—the "what it is like" to be something—is currently beyond the reach of scientific inquiry.

Your second quote which is repeated is blatantly opposed to any claim of objectivity.
I am not disagreeing with your approach, nor am I without ultimately using it myself.
We just need to be aware of the weaknesses.

In Christian apologetics there is only one defense when it comes to the resurrection.
1. It is historical -
2. attested to by apostles and disciples -
3. not by their testimony but by their account as eye witnesses -
4. eye witnesses who actually died rather than deny what they said was witnessed -
5. recorded by the Apostle Paul as early as A.D 42-44 - therefore, not legend but attested to by thousands.

My made up find of an ossuary with bones and the execution order by Pilate for Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews was faked from an actual find. The actual find does not cast doubt but seems to be authentic historical evidence of the Lord Jesus.
A modest limestone burial box, known as an ossuary, typical of first-century Jerusalem, is owned by Oded Golan, an Israeli antiquities collector. Chiselled on the side are the words "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus."
Read the entire article at this site:
Ancient burial box claimed to have earliest reference to Jesus

Actually, the best place to be in when it comes to faith is when you cannot not believe. The realty of ones life in the relationship to YHWH becomes a desperate necessity. Nothing else has any rational weight which could ever convince you otherwise. I have desperate faith.
We have two excellent examples from the gospels.

John 5:66-69 ISV
This passage has enormous power only if understood from the perspective of the early first century Jewish expectations of the Messiah. Messianic expectations dominated Jewish life. The time frame from Daniel's 70 sevens was ending if not already expired. Was there time for the disciples to expect there might be another claim to messianic prophecy? For them it was the Lord Jesus or they had wasted the years following the prophet from Nazareth. I suspect Levi (Matthew) had already given up on the messianic hope of Judaism to become a Roman tax collector when the Lord Jesus called him from disillusionment.

66 As a result, many of his disciples turned back and no longer associated with him.

67 So Jesus asked the Twelve, “You don’t want to leave, too, do you?”

68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Besides, we have believed and remain convinced that you are the Holy One of God.”

John 20:24-25 ISV
24 Thomas, one of the Twelve (called the Twin), wasn’t with them when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples kept telling him, “We’ve seen the Lord!” But he told them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands, put my finger into them, and put my hand into his side, I’ll never believe!”
 
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justbyfaith

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My specific encounter with the Lord Jesus, was a very powerful one. Nothing could ever convince me that He isn't real as a result.

And my faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.
 
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BobRyan

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My specific encounter with the Lord Jesus, was a very powerful one. Nothing could ever convince me that He isn't real as a result.

And my faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.

And what of the atheist who has not had that experience?
 
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BobRyan

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----------------------------
Hello, justbyfaith,
Not everybody can handle conflicting evidence in the same manner.
It depends on the relative value one places upon facts provided either by the Bible or by the physical sciences and philosophy.

You posted, "
I would continue to believe because I have had a very real encounter with Jesus. "

Some where in the faith of each of us is this subjective fact - the encounter with the Lord Jesus.
You added a caveat to this.
"Therefore I know that the real evidence will always point to the resurrection of Christ as being the reality in wolrd history." This is not so much of a statement of faith as it is placing trust - regardless of the presumed facts.

My caution, not intended toward you but these ideas, is that subjective knowledge is open to attack by logic and contemporary analytic philosophy, the issue of subject—and more specifically the "point of view" of the subject, or "subjectivity"—has received attention as one of the major intractable problems in philosophy of mind (a related issue being the mind-body problem). In the essay "What is it like to be a bat?", Thomas Nagel famously argued that explaining subjective experience—the "what it is like" to be something—is currently beyond the reach of scientific inquiry.

While purely subjective arguments are easily objected to by those who do not share that same POV - yet "my experience was this..." is 90% relied on for going-to-what-restaurant or doctor or real estate agent, or school, or church, or ... we almost always seek out someone else's subjective testimony about the choice before making it.

So personal witness/testimony is a key fact to include in the equation of persuasion. But it cannot be the only one - or very few would be persuaded.

In Christian apologetics there is only one defense when it comes to the resurrection.
1. It is historical -
2. attested to by apostles and disciples -
3. not by their testimony but by their account as eye witnesses -
4. eye witnesses who actually died rather than deny what they said was witnessed -
5. recorded by the Apostle Paul as early as A.D 42-44 - therefore, not legend but attested to by thousands.

Good point - thanks for that list.

My made up find of an ossuary with bones and the execution order by Pilate for Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews was faked from an actual find. The actual find does not cast doubt but seems to be authentic historical evidence of the Lord Jesus.
A modest limestone burial box, known as an ossuary, typical of first-century Jerusalem, is owned by Oded Golan, an Israeli antiquities collector. Chiselled on the side are the words "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus."
Read the entire article at this site:
Ancient burial box claimed to have earliest reference to Jesus

Nice!
 
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