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There is no idea the ninevites were spared hell and saved. This was under the OC system, and they were not joined to Israel, and could not offer sacrifices, and had no priests of the Lord.
There is no idea the ninevites were spared hell and saved. This was under the OC system, and they were not joined to Israel, and could not offer sacrifices, and had no priests of the Lord.
There is no idea the ninevites were spared hell and saved. This was under the OC system, and they were not joined to Israel, and could not offer sacrifices, and had no priests of the Lord.
About Nineveh, God says only Israel has He known of all the families of the earth.
I read about no relationship with that nation in scripture. God's promise was to not immediately destroy them after their reaction to His message, they were destroyed some years later though.
Amos 3 New King James Version (NKJV)
Authority of the Prophet’s Message
1 Hear this word that the Lord has spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying:
2 “You only have I known of all the families of the earth;
Therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.”
Just purely temporal compassion, and notice that includes animals. Are plants and animals saved?You made me read it again, and it's been a while, and it's a great thing to read. Now notice wording though --
From chapter 1, we start:
1The word of the Lord came to Jonah son of Amittai: 2“Go to the great city of Nineveh and preach against it, because its wickedness has come up before me.”
3 But Jonah ran away from the Lord and headed for Tarshish. .... (we know this part of the story.....)
.... (chapter 2 ends10 And the Lord commanded the fish, and it vomited Jonah onto dry land.
1 Then the word of the Lord came to Jonah a second time: 2 “Go to the great city of Nineveh and proclaim to it the message I give you.”
3Jonah obeyed the word of the Lord and went to Nineveh. Now Nineveh was a very large city; it took three days to go through it. 4Jonah began by going a day’s journey into the city, proclaiming, “Forty more days and Nineveh will be overthrown.” 5The Ninevites believed God. A fast was proclaimed, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth.
6When Jonah’s warning reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, took off his royal robes, covered himself with sackcloth and sat down in the dust. 7This is the proclamation he issued in Nineveh:
“By the decree of the king and his nobles:
Do not let people or animals, herds or flocks, taste anything; do not let them eat or drink. 8 But let people and animals be covered with sackcloth. Let everyone call urgently on God. Let them give up their evil ways and their violence. 9 Who knows? God may yet relent and with compassion turn from his fierce anger so that we will not perish.”
10 When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened.
(notice how at this point, Nineveh has been redeemed from destruction, which is as much as ever is given in the Old Testament to nations/cities after they repent of their misdeeds...)
continues in chapter 4 --
1 But to Jonah this seemed very wrong, and he became angry. 2 He prayed to the Lord, “Isn’t this what I said, Lord, when I was still at home? That is what I tried to forestall by fleeing to Tarshish. I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity. 3Now, Lord, take away my life, for it is better for me to die than to live.”
4 But the Lord replied, “Is it right for you to be angry?”
5 Jonah had gone out and sat down at a place east of the city. There he made himself a shelter, sat in its shade and waited to see what would happen to the city. 6 Then the Lord God provided a leafy plant and made it grow up over Jonah to give shade for his head to ease his discomfort, and Jonah was very happy about the plant.7But at dawn the next day God provided a worm, which chewed the plant so that it withered. 8When the sun rose, God provided a scorching east wind, and the sun blazed on Jonah’s head so that he grew faint. He wanted to die, and said, “It would be better for me to die than to live.”
9 But God said to Jonah, “Is it right for you to be angry about the plant?”
“It is,” he said. “And I’m so angry I wish I were dead.”
10 But the Lord said, “You have been concerned about this plant, though you did not tend it or make it grow. It sprang up overnight and died overnight. 11 And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left—and also many animals?”
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This last verse really rings in our ears.
God cares about lives lost in sin, and about bringing peoples out of their sins, even nations outside Israel.
It's just like John chapter 3, as quoted above, especially verse 17 is notable -- God doesn't want to condemn and destroy. He wants to redeem. He has made a way that whoever would believe can be saved.
Whosoever!
There is no idea the ninevites were spared hell and saved. This was under the OC system, and they were not joined to Israel, and could not offer sacrifices, and had no priests of the Lord.
Ok, I did not know that you dont believe in Christ as the only way to the Father that explains a lot.I'd suggest you err in the basic understanding of God's dealings with people throughout history. Romans 2:14-16 states,
"... for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. Rom 2:14-16
So on the day of judgement an unbeliever who had no knowledge of the law or the gospel will be judged based morals where God will say here's your conscience, now here's what you did, and here's what you knew when you did it. Their own conscience will accuse them or excuse them before God. So God will be a righteous, judge and it appears he holds people accountable to the measure of light they've received.
So is there any need to embrace Calvinistic thinking based on thinking there's no way such individuals can or could be saved for they didn't actually hear the gospel or the law. NO. I'd say God has considered ALL these things and everyone will receive proper justice and fairness. Now that's not to say God didn't move upon them to seek to learn about sacrifices and blood and if he did that'd be light they'd have to give account for either accepting or rejecting.
I was saved when I was young, and it was very real to me, and I was compelled to share Jesus with everyone. But I came from a family of end-times fanatics and a church of hell-fire-brimstone preachers that urged us into a really aggressive form of evangelism that I tried to adopt, but ultimately found it really hard to tell everyone to hurry and repent or they’d burn. It felt like following a script, so I decided it was disingenuous and stopped.
I did share my experiences of Jesus’s love with close friends, some whom went on to accept Jesus but later abandoned that faith. I remember having candid, honest talks with people of different faiths, no faith, similar faith... around a campfire with no agenda, no threats of hell, no accusations of heresy. Just love for one another and a sincere interest in others’ thoughts and experiences, and a unanimous desire to seek God’s truth. Even when no consensus materialized.
So I really kind of shut off when I go to churches with divisive attitudes, who obsess over hell as if they are eager to see theological opponents go there. Who obsess over politics and hot button issues instead of people. And especially groups who are resistant to discussing anything that challenges their dogma. I just grew up seeing that version of practicing faith and it was ugly.
I love this church because the people are loving, and humble, and sincerely willing to make personal sacrifices for the body of Christ and the community. I do think they are for real. And they are upfront about non-Calvinist persuasions being welcome and within the scope of orthodox Christianity.
However, that’s where it ends. Because every sermon is about predestination. Repetitive is an under statement. I leave every Sunday with the question, “What did I get from this? What do I do with this??” Nothing. God did everything for you. So just accept His grace. And yet everyone else seems to respond with conviction, post to Facebook about how moved they are. And me, I don’t even get it. I’m so confused I found I couldn’t even explain it to my kids.
I haven’t grown spiritually in so many years I don’t even know why I’m in church. That connection I had to God at one point just feels gone. And everything about predestination theology seems wrong, like the aggressive hell-based evangelism felt wrong. But I’m not inclined to just believe whatever I want. It has to actually be truth. I don’t feel convicted of any truth... yet others do, and it’s a community of believers I love very much, so I’m trying to reconcile the discrepancy.
It matters nothing what a persons conscience says about excusing their sins before God.
All the matters is if a person is in Christ or not.
People will excuse themselves to God, blame anything or anyone but themselves for their sins.
There is no salvation, no other name whereby we must be saved except the name of Jesus Christ, and in that passage, it says
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
and Jesus already told us whats up.
By the way, a big heads up to watch out for false teachers who teach antichrist doctrines.
The problem appears to be your difficulty with understanding the pastors theology (which is not unusual, like it or not), so maybe you should just have a little talk with him and lay out for him the questions you put to us.
I'm curious what you mean when you say you've been seeking God for 20+ years. Have you been saved? Or have you spent 20 years trying to get saved?
I admit the subject of election is difficult to grasp. But I don't feel it is something to lose sleep over. We can't fully understand it, sort of like we can't understand that God has existed for all eternity with no beginning.
Who said I don't believe Christ is the only way to the Father? I merely said what the scripture reported in Romans 2: 14-16. Or maybe you can explain exactly what, their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) means. If their conscience accuses them that means GUILT. If it doesn't when their judged that means they have excuse. Your turn...what do you say it means?Ok, I did not know that you dont believe in Christ as the only way to the Father that explains a lot.
Jesus said He was the way truth and life, and no one comes to the Father but by Him.
In His name is preached the forgiveness of sins, I would council you to repent of your unbelief in Christ and confess him as the only Lord and Savior of your soul, and not fall back on relying on some excusing of conscience supposedly God the Father will do for those who do not believe in the gospel of Christ.
I was at one point. Matthew 13:5-6 resonates with me, because that's what I feel happened. When my pastor references this verse, he counts these among the unelect.
Don't listen to him. To fall away means exactly that. You cannot fall away from something that you never had. For why would they receive the Word with joy if they are the unelect?
As for your suggesting that this part of the Parable has happened to you: Well, as long as you never denied Jesus as your Savior (after coming to Him), you are free to come back to the faith or the Lord Jesus by repentance (i.e. By seeking the Lord's forgiveness). I would encourage you to check out this mini comic book here:
https://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0085/0085_01.asp
I hope this helps;
And may God's love shine upon you today.
We can consider how Peter, being already cleansed by the Word, and already knowing Jesus was the Christ!... nevertheless (Peter) denied Christ. Yet, Peter could repent and be forgiven.
So, it's not that a believer can't return if they denied Christ, but that this is a serious sin of which they need to contritely confess, true repentance of having done, so that they are forgiven, and restored. Believers can do serious wrongs, but if they then confess, they are wonderfully cleansed of unrighteousness (1 John chapter 1). It's amazing grace.
That's fair, but what is keeping you from talking about your thinking with the pastor?I wish. There's a disconnect here. I feel like we speak different languages, and like many of the responses on here, I just don't get it.
I was at one point. Matthew 13:5-6 resonates with me, because that's what I feel happened. When my pastor references this verse, he counts these among the unelect.
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