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Featured Predestination

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by akmom, Aug 14, 2018.

  1. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior Pilgrim

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    Not true, there is a distinction between first and secondary causes. Calvinists do not deny that God created Adam and Eve with a free will, with the ability to choose between obedience and disobedience (see any number of Reformed and Calvinistic confessions). So God being the first cause in creating them, also created the necessary preconditions (free will) for other beings to bring into motion secondary causes which are independent from the first cause, but dependent in origin for their existence.

    Fatalistic determinism is a strawman version, if it were the case, God would not be God He would be determined by this fatalism, and in fatalism, it has never been the position of the fatalist that fatalism is grounded in being, in a sentient being with personality.

    Not only this but fatalism and super-naturalism are not compatible, in other words fatalism cannot dethrone the super-natural divine sovereignty of God, or restrain His sovereign free will.

    I went to some lengths to post several articles by Calvinists addressing the fatalism charge. Anyone interested may check them out HERE.
     
  2. ICONO'CLAST

    ICONO'CLAST Well-Known Member

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    It means my fingers are too fat for the phone keyboard I'll answer you later when I get online and show you exactly what I mean
     
  3. ICONO'CLAST

    ICONO'CLAST Well-Known Member

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    Let me try voice to text so you can comment when the autocorrect put the wrong word and then that'll give you something you can answer to. By profane sayings I'm talking about you blaming God for man's sin suggesting God does not know everything you suggesting that things happened other than what God has ordained to come the past so that's what I mean by profane
     
  4. Loren T.

    Loren T. Well-Known Member

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    You better take that one up with God, friend. Because he's the one that keeps saying people do things he never intended or wanted or ordained. This is God talking, not me:

    I remember the devotion of your youth,
    your love as a bride,
    how you followed me in the wilderness,
    in a land not sown.
    3 Israel was holy to the Lord,
    the first fruits of his harvest.
    All who ate of it became guilty;
    evil came upon them,
    says the Lord.”

    4 Hear the word of the Lord, O house of Jacob, and all the families of the house of Israel. 5 Thus says the Lord:

    “What wrong did your fathers find in me
    that they went far from me,
    and went after worthlessness, and became worthless?
    6 They did not say, ‘Where is the Lord
    who brought us up from the land of Egypt,
    who led us in the wilderness,
    in a land of deserts and pits,
    in a land of drought and deep darkness,
    in a land that none passes through,
    where no man dwells?’
    7 And I brought you into a plentiful land
    to enjoy its fruits and its good things.
    But when you came in you defiled my land,
    and made my heritage an abomination.
    8 The priests did not say, ‘Where is the Lord?’
    Those who handle the law did not know me;
    the rulers[a] transgressed against me;
    the prophets prophesied by Ba′al,
    and went after things that do not profit.

    9 “Therefore I still contend with you,
    says the Lord,
    and with your children’s children I will contend.
    10 For cross to the coasts of Cyprus and see,
    or send to Kedar and examine with care;
    see if there has been such a thing.
    11 Has a nation changed its gods,
    even though they are no gods?
    But my people have changed their glory
    for that which does not profit.
    12 Be appalled, O heavens, at this,
    be shocked, be utterly desolate,
    says the Lord,
    13 for my people have committed two evils:
    they have forsaken me,
    the fountain of living waters,
    and hewed out cisterns for themselves,
    broken cisterns,
    that can hold no water.

    14 “Is Israel a slave? Is he a homeborn servant?
    Why then has he become a prey?
    15 The lions have roared against him,
    they have roared loudly.
    They have made his land a waste;
    his cities are in ruins, without inhabitant.
    16 Moreover, the men of Memphis and Tah′panhes
    have broken the crown of your head.
    17 Have you not brought this upon yourself
    by forsaking the Lord your God,
    when he led you in the way?

    This is why your systematic theology fails every time. Because it totally reverses everything we read about the true heart of God. A God that would and did become like you to save you, is not the type of God that your unmoved mover would have to be.
     
  5. Loren T.

    Loren T. Well-Known Member

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    Hair splitting semantics. God is the determiner, but otherwise, there is no difference between theistic and atheistic determinism. Either way, something or someone is pre setting every move everyone will ever make. God, in this version of reality, renders every act of man and every atomic particle certain, not because he knows what they will do, and this is important, but because he decides for them what they will do. Like an author of a book or scriptor of a play, only more so, for he doesn't just choose their outward actions, but every thought and every firing of the neurons of their brains. So that, in determinism, God then becomes just an observer, for all intents and purposes. He pre sets the movie to play to his tune, decides who will be the heros and the villains and punishes the bad for doing just what he scripted for them to do. God, the computer programmer, or you might say, he creates AI robots that do exactly what he causes them to do. Actually a very boring version of God and one that looks nothing like Jesus.
     
  6. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior Pilgrim

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    Not hair splitting and obviously you choose to ignore the points in my post. Quite frankly everyone believes in determinism, the laws of physics depend on determinism, predication in the natural Sciences depends on determinism, the natural "order" of the universe depends on determinism. Cause and effect, throw a ball in the air and gravity will cause it to come down. This is not atheistic determinism, these unseen laws behind the visible exist because a God of order and not chaos is behind them. As for robots, He created a creature cable of making them and programming them, and the natural resources behind the periodic table to mix different elements for an intended effect. This is hardly a boring version of God. The boring version is busy snoozing on the throne waiting and hoping for someone to please just reach out and choose Him. Zzzzzzzz :sleep:
     
  7. ICONO'CLAST

    ICONO'CLAST Well-Known Member

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    "Loren T.,
    {You better take that one up with God, friend. Because he's the one that keeps saying people do things he never intended or wanted or ordained.}

    No need for that. I can just deal with your falsehoods. Yes men sin as jer2:13 illustrates. Where your error still is ...is when you try and slip in the word ordained...:sigh:

    If it happens, if it comes to pass...it was ordained, or it could not come to pass.


    [This is why your systematic theology fails every time.]
    It does not fail....if a person understands the terms being used:idea:

    [Because it totally reverses everything we read about the true heart of God.]
    No. Your selective ideas as you cherry pick them are not accurate..The God of John 3;16 destroyed all but 8 persons in the flood...justly.

    [A God that would and did become like you to save you, is not the type of God that your unmoved mover would have to be.]

    yes ..a covenant death for the elect children;
    Heb2;
    13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

    14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

    15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

    16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.:wave::wave::wave:
     
  8. ICONO'CLAST

    ICONO'CLAST Well-Known Member

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    Loren T.,

    [Which verses? You already used the tired old, "You just don't understand." line. ]
    The reason you keep hearing that is because you do not understand:idea::idea::idea:
    [You guys need some new material]
    it is not material...it is an accurate observation

    [It's like you all read from the same playbook.]

    No....we all read your posts and ideas from Leighton Flowers and other anti Cal websites:doh::doh::doh::help:


    [By profane ideas, you mean: men really do rebel against God, as God himself says they do all through the scripture.]
    No...I mean how you and other tradionalists, speak of our Divine God as if He were a fallible man, or in any way responsible for mans sin, or is somehow unjust...that is very profane.
     
  9. ICONO'CLAST

    ICONO'CLAST Well-Known Member

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    Apologetic_Warrior,

    [Not hair splitting and obviously you choose to ignore the points in my post.]
    Of course he does...he cannot respond to the scriptural points, so they use carnal ideas and philosophy to try and divert and explain away what you offered...they do this 9 times out of ten.
     
  10. ICONO'CLAST

    ICONO'CLAST Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    You asked about Jn 2...what did I mean?
    24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,

    25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
  11. ICONO'CLAST

    ICONO'CLAST Well-Known Member

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    Which verses...look at post245...
     
  12. Bobber

    Bobber Well-Known Member

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    Well yeah but when they do at least he knows it's TRUE LOVE.
     
  13. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior Pilgrim

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    As I see it, it's TRUE LOVE when God graciously and mercifully chooses to monergistically regenerate an undeserving sinner from spiritual death to spiritual life in Christ. As it is written in the Old Testament "I desire mercy not sacrifice".
     
  14. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior Pilgrim

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    It's the truth of God versus the world out here in the open, best to carry the sword of the Spirit, for who knows what evils lurk in these dark places.
     
  15. Loren T.

    Loren T. Well-Known Member

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    The world and the universe is a battleground. This is the Biblical narrative. There is a battle going on for men's souls and Jesus' sacrifice is part of that battle. You reduce the whole thing to God being the computer programmer in the sky, because you remove free will from the equation, even though it is on every page of the Book. And what you get is something that is scarcely different than what the atheist claim, that all our actions are just the result of the universe and our environment and that our choices are really not choices at at all. Then, ya'll continually use the same few verses cherry picked, to say that God being all powerful means he must be all controlling. Yes, God acts, he intervenes in our lives, but is not all controlling. God the dystopian control freak can not have a relationship with his people. Ya'll keep complaining that we talk about God as if he was a person. Well, that's how he talks about himself, because he is both person and spirit. And of course, the huge irony here, is that he became a person in order to experience just what we experience. The unmoved mover of philosophy could and would never do that, he is static, he cannot experience anything new or have any emotions. This is not the God of the Bible.
     
  16. Loren T.

    Loren T. Well-Known Member

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    You do know about corporate election, right? No need to go back over territory that others have already covered here.
     
  17. Bobber

    Bobber Well-Known Member

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    Just in case some readers don't understand Monergism....Monergism is the view within Christian theology which holds that God works through the Holy Spirit to bring about the salvation of an individual through spiritual regeneration, regardless of the individual's cooperation.

    So that's your version of true love? So you'd say it's a loving act to just pick someone as a spouse put handcuffs on them drag them to the church and demand they say I DO without them having any choice in the matter? I'd suggest you might want to think through on what you're saying. I don't know if you have any kids but what if someone tried to do that to your daughter....would you stand for that? I'm guessing when the minister would ask, "Can anyone give any reason why these two should not be married let him speak now or forever hold his peace" I'm guessing you would stand up and exclaim, "Yes I can....he's forced her to do this and she had NO CHOICE!" Well, wouldn't you?
     
  18. Loren T.

    Loren T. Well-Known Member

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    And this proves what?
    Of course he knows, he's God. He knows whose belief is sincere. Also these verses are very problematic for the Calvinistic world, where the only options are born reprobate and born to be saved. For people to be in an intermediate state, where they know the truth but haven't accepted it, or haven't developed faith leading to true repentance..why would God illuminate some one and not drag them into the kingdom? Sounds more like the armininan version of previent grace where they are now free to submit and be saved or to continue in rebellion.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
  19. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior Pilgrim

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    Does God Control the Human Heart?

    1. The Bible teaches that God can accomplish whatever He desires. God is God. He cannot be thwarted by finite sinful man.

    Psalm 115:3
    . “But our God is in heaven; He does whatever He pleases.”

    Psalm 135:6
    . “Whatever the LORD pleases He does, in heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deep places.”

    Isaiah 46:10-11
    . “My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure.... Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it.”

    Job 42:2
    . “You can do everything, and that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You.”

    Daniel 4:35
    . “He does according to His will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth. No one can restrain His hand.”

    2. Note also that God is sovereign even over man’s heart and will.

    Proverbs 16:1
    . “The preparations of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD.”

    Proverbs 16:9
    . “A man’s heart plans his way, but the LORD directs his steps.”

    Proverbs 19:21
    . “There are many plans in a man’s heart; nevertheless, the LORD’S counsel. that will stand.”

    If God controls man’s steps, does this not prove that God is in total control? No matter what man plans, God’s will is perfectly executed.

    Proverbs 21:1
    . “The king’s heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: He turns it wherever He wishes.”
    “What could be more explicit? Out of the heart are ‘the issues of life’ (Prov. 4:23), for as man ‘thinketh in his heart, so is he’ (Prov. 23:7). If then the heart is in the hand of the Lord, and if ‘he turneth it whithersoever He will,’ then is it not clear that men, yea, governors and rulers, and so all men, are completely beneath the governmental control of the Almighty!”78

    3. God controls the human heart. He can harden it or He can open it to receive the gospel.

    Revelation 17:17
    . “For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.”

    2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
    . “For this reason God will send them [those who perish] strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned.”

    Romans 9:18-21
    . “He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. You will say to me then, ‘Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?’ But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why have you made me like this?’ Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?”

    Deuteronomy 2:30
    . “But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass through, for the LORD your God hardened his spirit and made his heart obstinate, that He might deliver him into your hand, as it is this day.”

    Joshua 11:19-20
    . “There was not a city that made peace with the children of Israel, except the Hivites, the inhabitants of Gibeon. All the others they took in battle. For it was of the LORD to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that He might utterly destroy them, and that they might receive no mercy, but that He might destroy them, as the LORD had commanded Moses.”

    Exodus 10:1, 20
    . “Now the LORD said to Moses, ‘Go in to Pharaoh; for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his servants, that I may show these signs of Mine before them….’ But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not let the children of Israel go” (cf. Ex. 4:21; 7:3; 9:12; 14:4; 20:27).

    John 12:39-40
    . “Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again: He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they should see with their eyes and understand with their heart, lest they should turn, so that I should heal them” (cf. Mk. 4:11-12).

    Luke 24:4
    . “And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.”

    Acts 16:14
    . “Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshipped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul.”

    Philippians 2:13
    . “For it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.”

    Ezra 1:1, 5
    . “The LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia so that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom.... Then the heads of the fathers’ houses of Judah and Benjamin, and the priests and the Levites, with all those whose spirits God had moved, arose to go up and build the house of the Lord” (cf. Ezra 6:22; 7:6; Ex. 12:36; Ezek. 36:27; Gen. 20:6; Isa. 6:9-10; Lk. 8:10).

    The idea that God surrendered His sovereignty to man’s will is clearly unscriptural. There are so many passages in Scripture which show God working directly upon man’s heart and will to achieve His own ends that it is astonishing that anyone who believes in the authority of Scripture could deny it. Most evangelicals and fundamentalists, in their attempt to protect their unbiblical concept of free will, have dethroned God. God is helpless, waiting to see what finite, sinful mortals will do. The Most-High is stripped of His omnipotence. Pink writes: “The God of the twentieth century is a helpless, effeminate being who commands the respect of no really thoughtful man. The God of the popular mind is the creation of a maudlin sentimentality. The God of many a present-day pulpit is an object of pity rather than of awe-inspiring reverence. To say that God the Father has purposed the salvation of all mankind, that God the Son died and that God the Holy Spirit is now seeking to win the world to Christ; when as a matter of common observation, it is apparent that the great majority of our fellow-men are dying in sin, and passing into a hopeless eternity: is to say that God the Father is disappointed, that God the Son is dissatisfied, and that God the Holy Spirit is defeated.”79

    The Arminian doctrine that God sovereignly decided to create an area of created reality (man’s will) outside of His control is irrational. It is a theological impossibility. Why? Because God by nature is absolutely sovereign and all powerful. He cannotcreate a pocket of chance or pure contingency in His creation. God would have to cease to be God and deny Himself to do so. God could no more cease control of man’s spirit then He could create a being that could exist apart from His sustaining power. God has created all things. He controls all things that come to pass by His power, and according to His plan. There is not one atom or one creature beyond His power and control. The very reason that God knows every bit of history in advance is not just that He knows all things and is outside of time, but also because everything comes to pass according to His decree. Nothing can occur without His ordering. “Should anything take place contrary to the will of God, because in the opinion of the finite creature it is not ‘good,’ then Satan and man (on occasion at least) must be equal or superior to the Creator whose Word claims that He is omnipotent and wholly irresistible! On the other hand, if the determinative will of Jehovah reflects His immutable nature of Being, it can neither be obstructed nor cancelled. Therefore, whatever comes to pass in any part of creation, at any time in history, does so because the omniscient God knew it as a possibility, willed it as a reality by His omnipotence, and established it in His divine plan or purpose.”80

    The Bible teaches that when Christ returns, all His saints will receive glorified bodies and spend eternity in paradise with Him. All evangelicals believe this, yet the popular modern evangelical idea that God voluntarily limits His power so He doesn’t intrude on man’s free will would render this doctrine impossible. Why? Because if God has no power to control man’s heart and will, there can never be a guarantee that someday down the road God’s saints or the angels will not sin and rebel against Him. In fact, given the length of the saints’ stay in heaven (i.e., forever and ever), another fall into sin would be inevitable. If the Arminian argues that God will change the saints’ nature at the resurrection rendering Christians unable to sin in heaven, then he has conceded the whole argument. Why? Because if God is able to change man’s heart or spirit to make it fit for the heavenly state, then He also has the power to change man’s heart and will on earth."

    From the Article "Limited Atonement" by Brian Schwertley
     
  20. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior Pilgrim

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    Spiritual corpses cannot cooperate, sorry but I believe what Scripture tells us about the nature of man. Here's a sample:

    Genesis 6:5-8,11-13 - Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually..... The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. So God looked upon the earth, and indeed it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth. And God said to Noah, "The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth."

    Genesis 8:19 - Then the Lord said in His heart, "I will never again curse the ground for man's sake, although the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.

    Job 9:2-4 - Truly I know it is so, but how can a man be righteous before God?

    Job 14:4 - Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? No one!

    Job 15:14-16 - What is man, that he could be pure? And he who is born of a woman, that he could be righteous? If God puts not trust in His saints, and the heavens are not pure in His sight, how much less man, who is abominable and filthy, who drinks iniquity like water!

    Psalms 14:1-3 - The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none who does good. The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there are any who understand who seek God. They have all turned aside, they have together become corrupt; there is none who does good, no, not one.

    Psalms 25:11 - For Your name's sake, O Lord, pardon my iniquity, for it is great.

    Psalms 51:5 - Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.

    Psalms 58:1-5 - Do you indeed speak righteousness, you silent ones? Do you judge uprightly, you sons of men? No, in heart you work wickedness; you weigh out the violence of your hands in the earth. The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies. Their poison is like the poison of a serpent; they are like the deaf cobra that stops its ear, which will not heed the voice of charmers, charming ever so skillfully.

    Psalms 94:11,12 - The Lord knows the thoughts of man, that they are futile.

    Psalms 130:3,4 - If You, Lord, should mark iniquities, O Lord, who could stand? But there is forgiveness with You, that You may be feared.

    Psalms 143:2 - Do not enter into judgment with your servant, for in Your sight no one living is righteous.

    Proverbs 20:6,9 - Most men will proclaim each his own goodness, but who can find a faithful man?. . . Who can say, "I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin"?

    Ecc 7:20 - For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin.

    Ecc 9:3 - This is an evil in all that is done under the sun: that one thing happens to all. Truly the hearts of the sons of men are full of evil; madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

    Isaiah 1:5,6 - Why should you be stricken again? You will revolt more and more. The whole head is sick, and the whole heart faints.

    Isaiah 6:1-6,9,10

    Isaiah 48:8,9,11 - Surely you did not hear, surely you did not know; surely from long ago your ear was not opened. For I knew that you would deal very treacherously, and were called a transgressor from the womb.

    Isaiah 53:6 - All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, every one, to his own way; and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

    Isaiah 64:5-9 - You meet him who rejoices and does righteousness, who remembers You in Your ways. You are indeed angry, for we have sinned--in these ways we continue; and we need to be saved. But we are all like an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are like a filthy garment; we all fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. And there is no one who calls on Your name, who stirs himself up to take hold of You; for You have hidden Your face from us, and have consumed us because of our iniquities. But now, O Lord, You are our Father; we are the clay, and You our potter; and all we are the work of Your hand. Do not be furious, O Lord, nor remember iniquity forever; indeed, please look - we all are Your people!

    Jeremiah 2:22,29 Jeremiah 10:23

    Jeremiah 13:23 - Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Then may you also do good who are accustomed to do evil.

    Jeremiah 16:12 - And you have done worse than your fathers, for behold, each one walks according to the imagination of his own evil heart, so that no one listens to Me.

    Jeremiah 17:9,10 - The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; who can know it? I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

    Mica 7:2-4 - The faithful man has perished from the earth, and there is no one upright among men. They all lie in wait for blood; every man hunts his brother with a net, that they may successfully do evil with both hands - the prince asks for gifts, the judge seeks a bribe, and the great man utters his evil desire; so they scheme together. The best of them is like a brier; the most upright is sharper than a thorn hedge; the day of your watchman and your punishment comes; now shall be their perplexity.

    Matthew 7:17-19 - Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [What are we by nature--good trees or bad?]

    Matthew 12:33-35 - Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit. Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things. [c.f. Romans 3:12]

    Matthew 15:19 - For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.

    John 3:18-21 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

    John 5:37-47 - And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to me that you may have life. I do not receive honor from men. But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you.

    John 8:34 - Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin."

    John 14:16-18 - And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

    Romans 2:1 - Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.

    Romans 3:9-23 - 9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin. 10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one; 11there is none who understands; there is none who seeks after God. 12 They have all gone out of the way; they have together become unprofitable; there is none who does good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open tomb; with their tongues they have practiced deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips; 14 whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness. 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16 destruction and misery are in their ways; 17 and the way of peace they have not known. 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes." 19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God which is through faith in Jesus to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

    Romans 6:6,20 - knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

    Romans 7:5,6 - For when we were in the flesh, the passions of sins which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.

    Romans 7:17 - For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.

    Romans 8:5-8 - For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally [fleshly] minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. [c.f. Heb 11:6, which says "But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him." If those who are in the flesh cannot please God, then it follows that they cannot have faith and they cannot believe, for those things please God. That faith and that belief, then, must come from God Himself.]

    Romans 8:13,14 Romans 11:32

    1 Corinthians 2:14 - But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    Galatians 3:22 - But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

    Galatians 5:17 - For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

    Ephesians 2:1 - And you were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

    Ephesians 4:17-24 - This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardening of their heart; who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to licentiousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

    Ephesians 5:8 - For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light.

    Ephesians 5:14 - Therefore He says: "Awake, you who sleep, arise from the dead, and Christ will give you light."

    Colossians 1:13 - He has delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of His love.

    Colossians 1:21 - And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled....

    Colossians 2:13 - And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses.

    2 Timothy 2:25-26 - in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

    Titus 3:3-7 - For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another.

    James 2:10,11 - For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble on one point, he is guilty of all.

    1 John 1:8,10 - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.... If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

    1 John 3:10 [c.f. Romans 3:10] 1 John 5:19 1 Peter 2:25
     
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