Predestination? Doesn't God want all to be saved?

[98cwitr]

First off: God does not “send people to hell”, but their thoughts and actions send themselves to hell.

That makes utterly no sense. Does a thief send himself to jail? Or does the Judge sentence him to jail? A thief only goes to jail if caught, and all men are "caught," because God is omniscient. Criminals dont send themselves to jail, they commit crimes and someone has to convict them.

What transaction? If you say God loves everyone then the transaction is already done.

 

[Lion King]

First off: God does not “send people to hell”, but their thoughts and actions send themselves to hell.

To be honest, I don't think people send themselves to hell.

The Scriptures says the wicked will be thrown into the lake of fire after Judgement Day. On whose order? God Himself.

God sends people to hell.

 

[Lion King]

God loves the whole world.
God hates the wicked.

Both statements are equally correct.

 

[MoreCoffee]

God loves the whole world.
God hates the wicked.

Both statements are equally correct.

Kind of bipolar isn't it?

 

[James Is Back]

Kind of bipolar isn't it?

You know what it looks like it and I know that God isn't Bipolar

 

[Gxg (G²)]

You know what it looks like it and I know that God isn't Bipolar

But he can switch easily if He wanted to

 

[MoreCoffee]

You know what it looks like it and I know that God isn't Bipolar

People are always talking as if they know what God thinks and what God knows when they don't. Scripture tells us that God is love. One passages says "The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth." One ought not to pit the one passage against the other yet to say that God hates the wicked may be going a step too far because all of the faithful almost without exception were wicked in one way or another yet God loves them.

PS: There is another way to read the passage about hate. The other way is this, "The Lord questions the just and the impious. Yet he who loves iniquity, hates his own soul." (Psalm 11:5)

 

[Lion King]

Kind of bipolar isn't it?

Nope.

My God is beyond human understanding.

 

[Lion King]

People are always talking as if they know what God thinks and what God knows when they don't. Scripture tells us that God is love. One passages says "The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth." One ought not to pit the one passage against the other yet to say that God hates the wicked may be going a step too far because all of the faithful almost without exception were wicked in one way or another yet God loves them.

PS: There is another way to read the passage about hate. The other way is this, "The Lord questions the just and the impious. Yet he who loves iniquity, hates his own soul." (Psalm 11:5)

The foolish shall not stand in your sight: you hate all workers of iniquity. Psalm 5:5

Seems like David took it a step too far, huh?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Nope.

My God is beyond human understanding.

If you believe this then perhaps you will believe that whatever God thinks and feels about the wicked it is not what you imagine it to be?

The foolish shall not stand in your sight: you hate all workers of iniquity. Psalm 5:5

Seems like David took it a step too far, huh?

Perhaps he did.

 

[Lion King]

If you believe this then perhaps you will believe that whatever God thinks and feels about the wicked it is not what you imagine it to be?

God has already shown me, numerous times in fact, what He thinks about the wicked.

The ancient wicked world- destroyed by a flood.
The ancient wicked cities of Sodom and Gomorrah - destroyed by fire.
King Saul - destroyed.
Balaam - destroyed.
etc.

 

[bbbbbbb]

God has already shown me, numerous times in fact, what He thinks about the wicked.

The ancient wicked world- destroyed by a flood.
The ancient wicked cities of Sodom and Gomorrah - destroyed by fire.
King Saul - destroyed.
Balaam - destroyed.
etc.

As someone has observed, actions do speak louder than words.

 

[bling]

That makes utterly no sense. Does a thief send himself to jail? Or does the Judge sentence him to jail?

The thief breaks the Law by stealing, the judge is not allowed to do whatever he wants with the thief, the law and the thief determines what the judge is to do with the thief and since the law does not change the thief is the determining factor.
Those in prison need to know it was not the judge that put them there, but their actions put them there.

A thief only goes to jail if caught, and all men are "caught," because God is omniscient. Criminals dont send themselves to jail, they commit crimes and someone has to convict them.

God does not have to “catch” those that go to hell they all come to him, nor is there any courtroom procedure to determine the fate of a nonbeliever. The nonbeliever is just going to the judge for “sentencing”/ his reward, their actions have convicted them.

What transaction? If you say God loves everyone then the transaction is already done.

This goes back to the definition of Godly type Love.

Godly type Love is pure charity in that no one deserves such Love and it is a huge gift.

If this Love is offered and accepted the person receiving this Love will have to react positively to such a huge wonderful gift

Did Jesus Love everyone while on earth, yet not everyone reacted positively to Jesus so is that Jesus’ fault?

Jesus did His part in Loving others but the transaction of Love only took place among those that received Christ Love as pure charity. So some people were not “loved” by Christ and changed by that Love, because they did not accept Christ’s Love as charity, even though Christ was doing his part in Loving them.

Forgiveness is an act of Love, yet if you do not accept forgiveness as pure charity you are not forgiven (Matt. 18: 23-36)

 

[bling]

To be honest, I don't think people send themselves to hell.

The Scriptures says the wicked will be thrown into the lake of fire after Judgement Day. On whose order? God Himself.

God sends people to hell.

So you want to blame God for people going to hell?

 

[bbbbbbb]

So you want to blame God for people going to hell?

In a sense that would be true because one of the attributes of God is perfect justice. Because it is His inherent nature, then He would cease to be God if justice were not implemented.

 

[fhansen]

In a sense that would be true because one of the attributes of God is perfect justice. Because it is His inherent nature, then He would cease to be God if justice were not implemented.

But would it be just for God, or anyone else for that matter, to make a vessel fit for eternal torment, and then send him to hell because he's fit for eternal torment? Wouldn't God then be the direct cause of all evil?

 

[fhansen]

In a sense that would be true because one of the attributes of God is perfect justice. Because it is His inherent nature, then He would cease to be God if justice were not implemented.

But would it be just for God, or anyone else for that matter, to create a vessel expressly fit for eternal torment, and then send him to hell accordingly because, after all, he's fit for eternal torment? Wouldn't God then be the direct cause of all evil?

 

[Albion]

But would it be just for God, or anyone else for that matter, to create a vessel expressly fit for eternal torment, and then send him to hell accordingly because, after all, he's fit for eternal torment? Wouldn't God then be the direct cause of all evil?

Certainly not. That's a non-sequitur. However, it is exactly what causes Free Will advocates to not be able to understand Election. So for that reason, I'm happy that you posted it.

 

[Lion King]

So you want to blame God for people going to hell?

Our God is a just God. He PUNISHES those who do evil and REWARDS those who do good. Blessed be the name of the Lord.

 

[Johnnz]

Certainly not. That's a non-sequitur. However, it is exactly what causes Free Will advocates to not be able to understand Election. So for that reason, I'm happy that you posted it.

I do understand election. It applied to Israel and ultimately to God's purposes fulfilled by Jesus, not to each and every person, as determinists seem to believe.

John
NZ