Pre-tribulation Rapture Believers Safe House

[Choose Wisely]

You are still mistaken on this, not understanding the context of the first seals - the vision of the throne room and God's purpose for showing it. the first seals are history to us. The sooner you realize this, the less error you will be teaching.

No.........the history is shown by the 7 churches. Then the pretrib rapture of the Gentiles happens. Then the seals are opened, which is the tribulation. Then the rapture of the 12 twelve tribes. The the wrath of God happens.

You should be able to see this because you already see that God's wrath does not begin until the 6th seal (you say the 7th). In other words, there is no wrath of God for seals 1-5. And why not? Because they are church age events.

The events are not church age events. Church age events can be seen with the 7 churches prior to Rev 4. The 1st 6 seals are the 70 the week of Daniel.......the time of JACOBS trouble. The church is gone pre trib. The tribulation starts with the opening of the seals.

Next, it seems you still don't know where "trib" or the 70th week begins.I have written it over and over: the 70th week is "marked" by 7's: the 7th seal begins the week, the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint and the 7th vial ends it.

If its marked by sevens, you forgot the 7 churches. The seventh seal begins the wrath of God. When everyone sees Jesus come at the sixth seal they know his wrath is come. Hide us from Him that sits on the throne, for the great day of his wrath is come. It starts at the 7th seal. The coming was the 6th seal.
The 7th trumpet is the end of the wrath of God. See the following verses for proof..........unless you think that the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our God in the middle of wrath.
Rev 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Don't doubt me on this!

The problem is, I already know what you know because a lot of people believe like you do. But they never ask why it doesn't work. They just skip over verses like the above. How can the above verse happen in the middle of wrath? They can't.

Therefore, "pretrib" means pre 6th seal. (We are out of here before God's wrath - first mentioned at the 6th seal).

The tribulation begins at the 1st seal......the 70th week. The time of Jacobs trouble when the twelve tribes are regrafted. God does not forget his chosen people. They are not appointed to wrath either. The nation of Israel is here during the wrath of God. They are instructed to flee to Petra. The church is gone and the twelve tribes are gone before wrath.

This fits perfectly with Paul in 1 thes. 5. He mentioned the DAY just three verses after the rapture verse. Why? Because the rapture event will trigger the start of the DAY. Paul also shows us that wrath starts immediately after the rapture. Why? Because the Day of the Lord IS the Day of His wrath. Paul wrote that God would set no appointments for us with His wrath. WE (those living in Christ) get "salvation" by way of rapture, while AT THE SAME MOMENT IN TIME - those living in the darkness of the world gets Paul's "sudden destruction." That would be the worldwide earthquake at the 6th seal. I am convinced, this earthquake will be CAUSED by the dead in Christ rising.

What you say here is correct.........except you have the wrong people being raptured. Church is gone pretrib. 12 Tribes are gone pre wrath as proven by the 1st fruits. There is a rapture, its just not the church.

 

[Choose Wisely]

Do you imagine that God gets angry, then gets over it - then gets angry and gets over it, again and again? Where or how do you come up with this?

I didn't. You just made it up and tried to stuff it in my mouth. The winepress at the end of Rev 14 is the same winepress in Rev 19. What's so hard about that.

This is SO SIMPLE: God begins His wrath at the start of the DAY as shown at the 6th seal. His wrath continues on through the trumpet judgments, then on through chapters 11 through 16 where the 70th week ends.

The wrath ends in Rev 11. Rev 16 is just another picture of the same wrath.

The ENTIRE 70TH WEEK comes with God's wrath. So OF COURSE He has wrath in chapter 14! He also was angry during chapter 13 and during chapter 15 and 16. Don't make this so complicated!

It's easy when you just throw out facts that don't fit instead of understanding where the facts fit.

So His wrath DOES NOT "begin" nor does it "end" in chapter 14. Period and end of story. His wrath begins right where John shows us, at the 6th seal. And it continues on through the entire week. And I am convinced Jesus will have wrath at the battle of Armegeddon.

Oh look, I took a picture of a tree. Gosh, I found another and it's the same tree. The angles a little different, but its the same tree.

By the way, just WHEN is chapter 14 in John's chronology? The midpoint came at the 7th trumpet in chapter 11.

The midpoint came when? Sounds like the end of wrath to me.
Rev 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Chapter 12 is only seconds after the midpoint. Chapter 13, first few verses are in the real time timeline and are also right after the midpoint. But then John finishes chapter 13 as a parenthesis, taking us down the last half of he week with the two beasts. But in chapter 14, John is right back on his timeline but perhaps a few minutes or hours or days after the midpoint. Notice that God warns here not to take the mark - showing us that the mark has not yet been established.

Chapter 13 takes place during the seals. At the midpoint of the week the sacrifice is taken away. This is happening in the the seals. Then the abomination of desolation happens before Jesus returns in Rev 6, which is the end of Rev 14, which is the coming of Jesus in Matt 24. The gathering.........of Matt 24 not the second coming of Christ to set up his kingdom on earth.

The truth is, the days of GT that are the worst will not begin until after chapter 14 when the image is erected and the mark created.

The tribulation happens during the seals. The wrath of God happens at the 7th seal with the 1st trumpet.

What then Is God trying to show us about this harvest with sickles in chapter 14 - some very short time after the midpoint? The truth is, the False prophet may not have showed up yet! The mark not created yet. So where are all these people harvested just after the midpoint of the week?

The people harvested in Rev 14 along with the church (pretrib) and risen dead are the great multitude in Rev 7

 

[iamlamad]

Your time frames are all messed up. We see the 7 churches. They represent the church age UNTIL they are gone. They are not mentioned again after Rev 3 until they are seen in heaven at the end of revelation. The seals are opened after the church is gone pretrib. When the seals are opened God turns his attention to His chosen people.......hence the 70th week of Daniel.

As for the sickle, come on man, you know that it represents a harvest. It is the harvest of the 12 tribes as proven by the 144000 1st fruits.

In almost every church, John writes something about "the end," yet never hints that the end is close. From History we know that those churches disappeared.

Some think they represent church ages. I think they speak to every reader in any church age. But nothing changes in chapter 4 with the church except John (a member of the church) is called up to heaven. The church continues in the background, for the time does not change.

In fact, "the church" has continued on through the ages and is still here waiting for Jesus' coming. Are there still martyrs in the church age? Of course. So seal 5 continues on until the full number is reached. THEN judgment can begin.

WHEN will the church be "gone?" As soon as Jesus comes.
You are mistaken again! What is it with you? They are seen in chapter 7 as the great crowd too large to number. That is the church, relocated to heaven.

The first 5 seals HAVE BEEN opened. There are wars, famines, pestilences, ongoing. This is the last three horsemen.

OF COURSE the sickle represents harvest, but does it all take place right there in chapter 14 timing, shortly after the midpoint of the week? No, it does not. It is prophetic.

Surely you noticed that the sickle harvests are two separate harvests: one for the righteous and one for the sinner?
If you imagine these take place in chapter 14 timing, then you must believe the rapture is in chapter 14.

I hope you also noticed that the 144,000 are seen in heaven BEFORE the sickle harvests are mentioned? Therefore the harvests are NOT the 144,000.

You and I are just not going to agree: I take things exactly as they are written. You want to rearrange. Your theories will be proven wrong.

 

[iamlamad]

iamlamad said: ↑
Do you imagine that God gets angry, then gets over it - then gets angry and gets over it, again and again? Where or how do you come up with this?



I didn't. You just made it up and tried to stuff it in my mouth. The winepress at the end of Rev 14 is the same winepress in Rev 19. What's so hard about that.

You absolutely did!
Here is a quote:
"They are tossed into the winepress of the wrath of God in Rev 14. The wrath is just beginning. They go through the wrath of God first. At the end of the wrath of God they are destroyed. That happens when we come with Jesus on white horses. We can see this in Rev 19"

You previously had said His wrath begins at the 6th seal. Now here you as His wrath is just beginning in chapter 14. Therefore His wrath at the 6th seal must have gone away! Because it begins (again_ here in chapter 14. Then you say at the end of this wrath (did you mean the 6th seal wrath or the chapter 14 wrath?) Then you added a timing point: when Jesus comes.

Are you saying then that the chapter 14 wrath continues on through chapter 15 and 16 and 17 and 18 and 19 when Jesus comes? What about His wrath in the vials?

I din't make this up - you wrote it. Perhaps you can make it a little clearer? Perhaps you are saying that the 6th seal is the same exact timing as the harvests in chapter 14? Please tell me this is not what you are saying!

I agree about the winepress, in 14 being the winepress in 16. Are you now agreeing with me that these harvests shown in chapter 14 are prophetic and don't really happen in the chapter 14 timeframe?

 

[iamlamad]

I didn't. You just made it up and tried to stuff it in my mouth. The winepress at the end of Rev 14 is the same winepress in Rev 19. What's so hard about that.



The wrath ends in Rev 11. Rev 16 is just another picture of the same wrath.

Didn't you just get done disagreeing with me in the above paragraph? Now you are back agreeing with me that in your theory His wrath begins, ends and begins again.

Show us a verse that His wrath ends in chapter 11. My bible reads that His wrath culminates in the vials of His wrath. That would be all the way to chapter 16!

What John is telling us is that His wrath begins just before the 70th week and continues on through the entire 70th week. See how simply John made it? Why then do you try to complicate it?

 

[iamlamad]

It's easy when you just throw out facts that don't fit instead of understanding where the facts fit.

Oh look, I took a picture of a tree. Gosh, I found another and it's the same tree. The angles a little different, but its the same tree.

The midpoint came when? Sounds like the end of wrath to me.
Rev 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Sorry, but when our English bible says, "and they wrath is come" the Greek does not say this. It is a Greek Aorist verb that shows no tense or timing information at all. There is no way to write it accurately in English. One Greek lexicon tells us that usually past tense would suffice. In reality that should be that His wrath has come. And in fact, john showed us that it came at the 6th seal.

I guess you just don't know that Jesus does not take physical possession of the world's kingdoms until 3 1/2 more years AFTER the 7th trumpet. Why? Because His word is out: the Beast will get 42 months.

Do you imagine that the trumpet judgments come with no wrath?

 

[Copperhead]

I believe that the letters to those seven Churches were literally for those seven Churches, I have come to believe that those letters also lay out the history of the Church in advance. In any other order than they are, it wouldn't work. But that is debatable. Likewise, I believe that there are elements of all seven in each Church even today. While each letter is addressed to a particular church, the ending statement after each letter is for all of us to hear what is being said to each church. All of it applies to all the Church.

Either way, the Church is not mentioned after Chapter 3 (except in John's final salutation at the end of The Revelation). The 24 Elders are in Chapter 4 onward. They are a division of 24 as per 1 Chronicles 24. They claim to be redeemed of all peoples, tribes, tongues, nations. They claim to be Kings and Priests, per 1 Peter 2:9, and they will rule on the earth, per Revelation 2:26-29 (which is specifically addressed to the Church) and evidenced that they sit on 24 thrones surrounding the Throne of God. And they are there before the GT gets started as they are present when the Lamb (Yeshua) takes the scroll with the seven seals.

The group later on in Revelation 7, they too are of all the people, tribes, tongues, nations like the 24 Elders, but instead of ruling, they are directly before the throne of God and serve Him day and night. One of the Elders tells John they come out of the Great Tribulation. Another indication that the Church as we know it now is not in the GT.

Each group is equal, but unique and distinct from each other. Neither group is better or less than the other. But they are not the same group. They each have unique roles. Just redeemed the same way, by the Blood of the Lamb.

 

[iamlamad]

Chapter 13 takes place during the seals. At the midpoint of the week the sacrifice is taken away. This is happening in the the seals. Then the abomination of desolation happens before Jesus returns in Rev 6, which is the end of Rev 14, which is the coming of Jesus in Matt 24. The gathering.........of Matt 24 not the second coming of Christ to set up his kingdom on earth.

The tribulation happens during the seals. The wrath of God happens at the 7th seal with the 1st trumpet.

The people harvested in Rev 14 along with the church (pretrib) and risen dead are the great multitude in Rev 7

I want to show the readers how silly this is. There is a book or scroll sealed with 7 seals. Jesus opens these seals one at a time, with only two left to open. But WHAT IS HIS PURPOSE?
Of course it is to get INSIDE the book! Why? Because the trumpet judgments are INSIDE the book, and it will be at the 7th trumpet when Satan loses and Jesus gets His world back!

Question? Is a broken seal good for anything after it is broken? NO! It served its purpose - keeping the scroll locked until the proper time. NO ONE could open these seals except the redeemer of mankind.

Imagine a wax seal, with a ring imprint in it. Imagine 7 of them. They are broken or opened so that the scroll can be opened up. Once it is opened, the seals are FORGOTTEN - never to be mentioned in teh book again - just as it should be - for they had only ONE Purpose: to keep the book sealed.

What you are doing is picking up broken pieces of wax that once made up a seal and are attempting to attach some meaning to it - when there is NONE any longer.

Once the book is opened, the seals are FORGOTTEN! That is, for all except for someone on this thread.

Therefore, to attempt to made some attachment with a trumpet and a seal is just plain error in big print. The trumpets are what is written INSIDE the book. Once the book is opened, who in the world cares about the seals? Only someone on this thread. You amaze me.

Therefore when you say "Chapter 13 takes place during the seals" I know you are very mistaken about Revelation.

"At the midpoint of the week the sacrifice is taken away. This is happening in the the seals." Of course this is nonsense. The seals are long forgotten by the midpoint of the week. The book has been opened and what was written inside is taking place.

The tribulation happens during the seals. Do you mean the 70th week? More confusion! If you mean the 70th week, it BEGINS with the 7th seal. CHURCH AGE happens during the first 5 seals. The DAY starts at the 6th seal.

The wrath of God happens at the 7th seal with the 1st trumpet.
No, the wrath of God BEGINS then (or at the 6th seal) and continues on through the entire week, culminating in the vials of His wrath.

The people harvested in Rev 14 along with the church (pretrib) and risen dead are the great multitude in Rev 7
Why don't you just rewrite the book, since you have totally rearranged it! You have done more damage to Revelation that anyone I have read after! Congratulations.

Just keep one thing in mind: ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology is immediately suspect and WILL BE proven wrong.

Know this: your theories will be proven wrong, because you insist on forcing Revelation to fit your theory.

 

[Choose Wisely]

You see, two events MUST take place before the the 70th week (it opens with the 7th seal and starts with the trumpet judgments) can begin. What are these two events? First, God seals the 144,000 descendants of Jacob for their protection during the trumpet judgments.

The 70th week begins when the 1st seal is opened. It is the time of Jacobs trouble..........not the Gentiles. The are gone pretrib. It sure looks like the 144000 are sealed for their protection and yet they are gone before the wrath begins. And there's not a chance in China that you will understand that. If you can't see the basics such as the coming of Jesus in Matt 24 is a gathering.........just like it says, how will you understand the hard things.The coming in Matt 24 is not the second coming of Christ to set up His kingdom. If you can't grasp what is clearly written how will you understand the roadblocks.

Sorry, error: the church is NOT gathered from heaven! How do you come up with this stuff? You know as well as I that Paul's rapture (gathering) gathers from EARTH. Then they are escorted TO heaven. And you know it happens pretrib.

I came up with it the same way I have come up with the rest of it. The Bible. So you say the are gathered from earth only and not heaven? Lets check that.
Matt 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mark 13
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
I keep waiting for one small light to go on. I post scripture after scripture after scripture, that proves what I am talking about and you read right through it. But I get it. There are a couple of roadblocks you have to get past to understand what is right in front of your face.

The 12 tribes are harvested pre wrath. Scripture please. I think it is more imagination.

I have posted scripture after scripture. I would start by understanding the coming of Jesus in Matt 24 is the gathering........just like it says. It is not the second coming of Christ. There is not support for this being when Christ sets up His kingdom. But there is scriptural proof that it is a GATHERING from EARTH AND HEAVEN. That's because the church is taken to heaven pre trib before the seals are opened. This coming of Jesus is seen prior to the wrath of God in Rev 6. Signs all line up perfectly except you have a problem with the moon being as blood. But if you make the moon the color of blood.......NUFF SAID.
The great multitude of Rev 7 is the same as the harvest of Rev 14 which is the twelve tribes as proven by the 1st fruits, PLUS the Church that was harvested pre trib. We see the end of wrath in Rev 11, We see a different picture of the end of wrath in Rev. 14 and we see another picture of the end of wrath in Rev 16 and of course in Rev 19 we see the end of wrath when we return on white horses. We see four different pictures of the end of the same wrath.

I can post a scripture such as the gathering of Matthew 24 showing they come from heaven and earth. Now you can deny the scriptural facts and decide this is when Jesus comes on white horses. I see a gathering, Matthew says its a gathering, Paul says the gathering occurs just before the DAY OF THE LORD etc etc and you will see what you will see.

 

[iamlamad]

The 70th week begins when the 1st seal is opened. It is the time of Jacobs trouble..........not the Gentiles. The are gone pretrib. It sure looks like the 144000 are sealed for their protection and yet they are gone before the wrath begins. And there's not a chance in China that you will understand that. If you can't see the basics such as the coming of Jesus in Matt 24 is a gathering.........just like it says, how will you understand the hard things.The coming in Matt 24 is not the second coming of Christ to set up His kingdom. If you can't grasp what is clearly written how will you understand the roadblocks.


I came up with it the same way I have come up with the rest of it. The Bible. So you say the are gathered from earth only and not heaven? Lets check that.
Matt 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mark 13
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
I keep waiting for one small light to go on. I post scripture after scripture after scripture, that proves what I am talking about and you read right through it. But I get it. There are a couple of roadblocks you have to get past to understand what is right in front of your face.






I have posted scripture after scripture. I would start by understanding the coming of Jesus in Matt 24 is the gathering........just like it says. It is not the second coming of Christ. There is not support for this being when Christ sets up His kingdom. But there is scriptural proof that it is a GATHERING from EARTH AND HEAVEN. That's because the church is taken to heaven pre trib before the seals are opened. This coming of Jesus is seen prior to the wrath of God in Rev 6. Signs all line up perfectly except you have a problem with the moon being as blood. But if you make the moon the color of blood.......NUFF SAID.
The great multitude of Rev 7 is the same as the harvest of Rev 14 which is the twelve tribes as proven by the 1st fruits, PLUS the Church that was harvested pre trib. We see the end of wrath in Rev 11, We see a different picture of the end of wrath in Rev. 14 and we see another picture of the end of wrath in Rev 16 and of course in Rev 19 we see the end of wrath when we return on white horses. We see four different pictures of the end of the same wrath.

I can post a scripture such as the gathering of Matthew 24 showing they come from heaven and earth. Now you can deny the scriptural facts and decide this is when Jesus comes on white horses. I see a gathering, Matthew says its a gathering, Paul says the gathering occurs just before the DAY OF THE LORD etc etc and you will see what you will see.

I can see this: you and I disagree on almost everything we write. It is as if we are reading two different books!

What is Paul's "gathering?" I read when the dead in christ rise, and then those alive and in Christ rise, then TOGETHER (Paul's gathering) the two groups rise up into the cloud. It is a gathering from earth.

 

[Saintly Sinner]

The Rapture was theorized by a 19th century Irish priest.

It's not orthodox Christianity.
Just so you know.

 

[Choose Wisely]

I want to show the readers how silly this is. There is a book or scroll sealed with 7 seals. Jesus opens these seals one at a time, with only two left to open. But WHAT IS HIS PURPOSE?
Of course it is to get INSIDE the book! Why? Because the trumpet judgments are INSIDE the book, and it will be at the 7th trumpet when Satan loses and Jesus gets His world back!

Question? Is a broken seal good for anything after it is broken? NO! It served its purpose - keeping the scroll locked until the proper time. NO ONE could open these seals except the redeemer of mankind.

Imagine a wax seal, with a ring imprint in it. Imagine 7 of them. They are broken or opened so that the scroll can be opened up. Once it is opened, the seals are FORGOTTEN - never to be mentioned in teh book again - just as it should be - for they had only ONE Purpose: to keep the book sealed.

What you are doing is picking up broken pieces of wax that once made up a seal and are attempting to attach some meaning to it - when there is NONE any longer.

Once the book is opened, the seals are FORGOTTEN! That is, for all except for someone on this thread.

Therefore, to attempt to made some attachment with a trumpet and a seal is just plain error in big print. The trumpets are what is written INSIDE the book. Once the book is opened, who in the world cares about the seals? Only someone on this thread. You amaze me.

Therefore when you say "Chapter 13 takes place during the seals" I know you are very mistaken about Revelation.

"At the midpoint of the week the sacrifice is taken away. This is happening in the the seals." Of course this is nonsense. The seals are long forgotten by the midpoint of the week. The book has been opened and what was written inside is taking place.

The tribulation happens during the seals. Do you mean the 70th week? More confusion! If you mean the 70th week, it BEGINS with the 7th seal. CHURCH AGE happens during the first 5 seals. The DAY starts at the 6th seal.

The wrath of God happens at the 7th seal with the 1st trumpet.
No, the wrath of God BEGINS then (or at the 6th seal) and continues on through the entire week, culminating in the vials of His wrath.

The people harvested in Rev 14 along with the church (pretrib) and risen dead are the great multitude in Rev 7
Why don't you just rewrite the book, since you have totally rearranged it! You have done more damage to Revelation that anyone I have read after! Congratulations.

Just keep one thing in mind: ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology is immediately suspect and WILL BE proven wrong.

Know this: your theories will be proven wrong, because you insist on forcing Revelation to fit your theory.

I guess I would like you to refute that the gathering that we see in Matthew 24 is not a gathering. Do you have any scriptural proof...........to prove these scriptures wrong??????????

 

[Choose Wisely]

The Rapture was theorized by a 19th century Irish priest.

It's not orthodox Christianity.
Just so you know.

Hi, i see you are new. Welcome to the forum. This is a safe house for pre trib believers. You are not supposed to come in here and post unless you believe in the pre trib rapture. There are plenty of places to post comments like this.

 

[Saintly Sinner]

Hi, i see you are new. Welcome to the forum. This is a safe house for pre trib believers. You are not supposed to come in here and post unless you believe in the pre trib rapture. There are plenty of places to post comments like this.

I'm not used to the layout; actually was a genuine mistake posting here. Sorry

 

[Copperhead]

The tribulation happens during the seals. Do you mean the 70th week? More confusion! If you mean the 70th week, it BEGINS with the 7th seal. CHURCH AGE happens during the first 5 seals. The DAY starts at the 6th seal.

So who was on the white horse conquering again, since the text of the first seal doesn't say? And how does one not correlate this guy with a bow with the prince of Daniel 9:27 who is confirming a covenant? The first use of the "bow" in scripture is in Genesis and it means a covenant, so "bow" in this context may not mean military conquest.

The Rapture was theorized by a 19th century Irish priest.

Really? Let's see, Jerome translated the Latin Vulgate of the NT in late 4th Century. The Greek for "caught up" is Harpazo which Jerome used the Latin word Raptus, from which we get our transliterated word Rapture. So much for some Irish priest dreaming it up. I will agree the concept is not orthodox, but then, I am not sure being "orthodox" is a good thing. Basing ones position on theological issues because of a majority opinion is not always the best thing to do. The Church couldn't even get out of the 1st Century before it was in trouble. Don't believe that? Then read the Letters to the Seven Churches in The Revelation along with some of Paul's letters to the Churches like Corinthians.

 

[iamlamad]

The Rapture was theorized by a 19th century Irish priest.

It's not orthodox Christianity.
Just so you know.

The rapture was written out by Paul LONG before anyone heard of a 19th century priest!
Just so you know...

 

[Saintly Sinner]

The rapture was written out by Paul LONG before anyone heard of a 19th century priest!
Just so you know...

I see it now, but didn't notice before these are specific sections of the site- sorry for intruding.
I respect every Christian belief, though I do tend to go a bit hard with theology. Perhaps we'll talk again on this matter.

 

[iamlamad]

I see it now, but didn't notice before these are specific sections of the site- sorry for intruding.
I respect every Christian belief, though I do tend to go a bit hard with theology. Perhaps we'll talk again on this matter.

If you are born again, then NO LONGER a sinner saved by grace; You are a NEW Creation in Christ Jesus - created for good works!

I hope we can chat again.

 

[Choose Wisely]

If you are born again, then NO LONGER a sinner saved by grace; You are a NEW Creation in Christ Jesus - created for good works!

I hope we can chat again.

We can agree on that................

 

[Jackeus]

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