Pre-tribulation Rapture Believers Safe House

[Brian Mcnamee]

I love this blog and want to encourage and exhort all the watchers out there. Here is a gift for your joy and a great witness tool. My just released single "Come Up Here Children" is free to listen and download and do whatever as long as it is not for profit, headphones are recommended. http://ComeUpHereChildren.com. You can dance if you want!

it is tacky to self promote in a discussion forum

 

[Jackeus]

Brian, you are right it is tacky if this was the case. This song is not about me and I think you have judged the motive of my heart. This song is about the "Blessed Hope" 1 Thess. 4:15-18. It is free because of what Jesus offered to me for free. I am a musician and served full time in churches for two decades as worship leader and have walked with Jesus for 55 years. This song is what I offer to the body and it is no more self serving than your comments on this forum. God gave me this song one evening three years ago and I have spent over a thousand hours getting it to where it is. I pray the Holy Spirit will help you understand and you will help me get it out there. One last thing, did you listen to the song? Maranatha

 

[NolaB123]

Im a pre trib believer. I believe the great tribulation is 3.5 years. I think the first 4 books of revelation are speaking to the church and from then on mostly to Israel and christians who will come out of the great tribulation. As in the days of Noah we will be taken out before the last three and half years spoken of by Daniel. I trust in the work of Chuck Missler in this area.

 

[Choose Wisely]

Im a pre trib believer. I believe the great tribulation is 3.5 years. I think the first 4 books of revelation are speaking to the church and from then on mostly to Israel and christians who will come out of the great tribulation. As in the days of Noah we will be taken out before the last three and half years spoken of by Daniel. I trust in the work of Chuck Missler in this area.

I'd like to point out that Noah was in the ark 7 days before the flood, not 3.5 days.

 

[Billy Evmur]

Done. Thanks for stopping by.

What about us mid tribbers

 

[Choose Wisely]

What about us mid tribbers

You could ask them to create you a safe house. But might I suggest a cool name like.........The semi partial non preterist, non replacement theology, non pretrib, non post trib, non pre wrath, non two raptures, king of non's and random baked goods raptures believers safe and smoke house.

 

[Billy Evmur]

 

[Choose Wisely]

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Copperhead]

Im a pre trib believer. I believe the great tribulation is 3.5 years. I think the first 4 books of revelation are speaking to the church and from then on mostly to Israel and christians who will come out of the great tribulation. As in the days of Noah we will be taken out before the last three and half years spoken of by Daniel. I trust in the work of Chuck Missler in this area.

I have listened to Chuck for many years. He was indeed a pre-trib.... pre 70th week of Daniel.... pre 7 years person. The Great Tribulation, technically, is indeed the 3.5 year mark. And Chuck also agreed with my take that the 24 Elders represent the Church in heaven, and they are there before the 1st seal is opened up.

Revelation 3:10 shows that the believers who persevere will be kept from the testing coming upon those who dwell on the earth. Do a in-depth study sometime about the earth dwellers, those who dwell on the earth, etc in scripture. In virtually all instances, scripture paints them as those who have rejected God and chose this world and are under condemnation.

A good example is in John 8 with the woman caught in adultery. The text there does not say what Yeshua wrote, but it does in Jeremiah 17:13 since this event was a fulfillment of prophecy in Jeremiah 17:13. The period was at the time of Tabernacles, specifically the 8th day (Shemini Atzeret). We know that from John 7:37. The day following Shemini Atzeret, would be Simchat Torah (rejoicing in the Torah). At that time, the High Priest would take water from the pool of Siloam and offer it upon the alter. It is called "living water". Jeremiah says that these guys will reject the one who is the fount of living waters, and their names would be written in the earth. Yeshua wrote these guys names in the earth, which is a picture of condemnation. They are judged as being "earth dwellers", which means those who reject God.

There are dozens of allusions to earth dwellers, those who dwell on the earth, etc. They all give the picture of those that reject God and condemned. Since believers are not "earth dwellers' or those that reject God, Revelation 3:10 says they will be kept from the hour of testing that is coming upon those who dwell on the earth. Another proof text of the pre-70th week removal of the righteous.

 

[iamlamad]

You could ask them to create you a safe house. But might I suggest a cool name like.........The semi partial non preterist, non replacement theology, non pretrib, non post trib, non pre wrath, non two raptures, king of non's and random baked goods raptures believers safe and smoke house.

This is too hilarious!

 

[iamlamad]

It is very interesting, since I believe "the trib" does not start until the 7th seal, and I believe the rapture comes a moment before the 6th seal, I certainly believe the rapture will be pretrib, but I have been kicked out of a certain well known pretrib forum three times and the last time forever. Why? Because they imagine anyone who thinks the rapture is after Rev. 4:1 is not pretrib!

Here they are, the leaders of a forum accessed world wide, thinking they are rapture ready, thinking they are the experts on the pretrib rapture, yet they don't really know where "the trib" begins in the book of Revelation.

WHY do I believe the "trib" or the 70th week does not start with the first seal, where those ready for the rapture people believe it begins? It is really quite simple: I believe what God is trying to tell us in chapters 4 and 5: that these chapters set the CONTEXT for the first seal. What is that context? Look in chapter 5: John got to see the very moment Jesus ascended into the throne room, where He was NOT the moment before. Where was He? He was on the earth talking to Mary Magdelene. As soon as He sent her away, He arose back into the throne room to get the book and begin opening the seals.

John saw "a lamb having been slain" and at that moment Jesus entered the throne room, the Holy Spirit was sent down - exactly what Jesus said He would do.

What was the first thing Jesus did, having ascended? He went to the Father and got the book, and began opening the seals. I know, many people want to insert or add to the Word of God, 2000 years in one of those verses. Some are so desperate, they tyr to add 2000 years between the verses.

However, a very close search will reveal that God DID NOT include 2000 years there, or even give a hint of any time at all: Jesus entered the throne room and IMMEDIATELY got the book and began opening the seals. I would estimate it around 32 or 33 AD. That is when the first seal was opened, to represent the church, sent out with the Gospel, to make disciples of all nations.

Since seal one is NOT future to us, but in our past, it cannot very well be the first part of the 70th week. Besides, 30 minutes of silence seems a far better way to begin the 7 year period of judgment on earth.

Next, if we look at the 7th vial, the last three words are, "it is done." At least one translation says, "it is finished." What is finished? The 70th week is finished. So the 70th week ENDS with a 7.

Then if we study and search for the midpoint, it too is marked with a 7: the 7th trumpet. With the end and the midpoint marked by 7's it just fits that the beginning too would be marked by a 7.

I believe the rapture comes in Revelation just before the 6th seal because when studying 1 Thes. 5, what Paul wrote, the rapture seems to fit there a moment before the 6th seal better than anywhere else.

Therefore, I am pretrib, and prewrath, and I can prove it by scripture.

 

[Choose Wisely]

Here they are, the leaders of a forum accessed world wide, thinking they are rapture ready, thinking they are the experts on the pretrib rapture, yet they don't really know where "the trib" begins in the book of Revelation.

I believe that you are in error and they are correct..........regarding where the tribulation begins.

 

[Choose Wisely]

WHY do I believe the "trib" or the 70th week does not start with the first seal, where those ready for the rapture people believe it begins? It is really quite simple: I believe what God is trying to tell us in chapters 4 and 5: that these chapters set the CONTEXT for the first seal. What is that context? Look in chapter 5: John got to see the very moment Jesus ascended into the throne room, where He was NOT the moment before. Where was He? He was on the earth talking to Mary Magdelene. As soon as He sent her away, He arose back into the throne room to get the book and begin opening the seals.

John saw "a lamb having been slain" and at that moment Jesus entered the throne room, the Holy Spirit was sent down - exactly what Jesus said He would do.

What was the first thing Jesus did, having ascended? He went to the Father and got the book, and began opening the seals. I know, many people want to insert or add to the Word of God, 2000 years in one of those verses. Some are so desperate, they tyr to add 2000 years between the verses.

However, a very close search will reveal that God DID NOT include 2000 years there, or even give a hint of any time at all: Jesus entered the throne room and IMMEDIATELY got the book and began opening the seals. I would estimate it around 32 or 33 AD. That is when the first seal was opened, to represent the church, sent out with the Gospel, to make disciples of all nations.

Alright, now, lets take a 44 magnum and blow a hole in your logic big enough that you can see. You claim that Jesus immediately got the book and began opening the seals as soon as he ascended. We see in His word that this in an incorrect statement. John received his revelation many years after Jesus ascended and yet he is shown things which much shortly come to pass...........meaning that they have not occurred yet..............meaning that the seals were not opened when Jesus ascended.
Rev 1
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Second proof:

Rev 5
1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

If you say that Jesus immediately opened the book after He ascended, how is it that John is weeping...... many years after Jesus ascended because no one was found worthy to open the book..........MEANING THE BOOK WAS NOT OPEN WHEN JOHN GOT HIS VISION.

This is clear scriptural evidence that your logic is incorrect as well as your statements regarding the seals. So here is another square peg that you are driving into a round hole. How many of these do we need to uncover before you will start putting round pegs in round holes. I have taken a 44 magnum and blown a round hole. Go find the round peg.

 

[iamlamad]

I believe that you are in error and they are correct..........regarding where the tribulation begins.

You can be just as wrong as they are!

 

[iamlamad]

Alright, now, lets take a 44 magnum and blow a hole in your logic big enough that you can see. You claim that Jesus immediately got the book and began opening the seals as soon as he ascended. We see in His word that this in an incorrect statement. John received his revelation many years after Jesus ascended and yet he is shown things which much shortly come to pass...........meaning that they have not occurred yet..............meaning that the seals were not opened when Jesus ascended.
Rev 1
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

yet he is shown things which much shortly come to pass...........meaning that they have not occurred yet.

You keep trying to add an "Only" there and John did not. You imagine everything John wrote from this point on must be future to John at that time. You are in error. God allowed Himself the right to include things that were history - and He did. No hole and no 44 magnum needed. You only need to read more clearly what is written.

meaning that the seals were not opened when Jesus ascended.

It does not mean that at all. You used faulty logic. A bigger gun won't help.

Hint: no amount of argument can upset TRUTH.

 

[iamlamad]

Second proof:

Rev 5
1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

If you say that Jesus immediately opened the book after He ascended, how is it that John is weeping...... many years after Jesus ascended because no one was found worthy to open the book..........MEANING THE BOOK WAS NOT OPEN WHEN JOHN GOT HIS VISION.

This is clear scriptural evidence that your logic is incorrect as well as your statements regarding the seals. So here is another square peg that you are driving into a round hole. How many of these do we need to uncover before you will start putting round pegs in round holes. I have taken a 44 magnum and blown a round hole. Go find the round peg.

John was weeping because IN THE VISION OF THE PAST no man was found. In reality Jesus was found the moment He rose from the dead - but John was seeing a vision of the past, BEFORE Jesus rose from the dead - and then after He rose from the dead.

Surely you can understand history versus now versus future! THINK! It was a vision of the past for John.

Again, no amount of argument can reverse TRUTH. John saw a vision of the PAST as proven by the context.

 

[Choose Wisely]

yet he is shown things which much shortly come to pass...........meaning that they have not occurred yet.

You keep trying to add an "Only" there and John did not. You imagine everything John wrote from this point on must be future to John at that time. You are in error. God allowed Himself the right to include things that were history - and He did. No hole and no 44 magnum needed. You only need to read more clearly what is written.

So John gets a revelation and is told that he is shown things that will shortly come to pass, and instead of believing exactly what is written you decide that God has spoken wrong and allowed himself to tell a falsehood.

Could you make a list of any other scriptures where God doesn't mean what He says?

When I see statements like this, I understand why you are in confusion.

 

[Choose Wisely]

meaning that the seals were not opened when Jesus ascended.

It does not mean that at all. You used faulty logic. A bigger gun won't help.

Hint: no amount of argument can upset TRUTH.

So John is weeping because no one is found worthy to open the book.......which means you are in error.....AGAIN.

Instead of accepting the truth, you stick to your pea shooter, despite what the word says.

You have incorrectly concluded that Jesus went and opened the book as soon as He ascended. This is something that you have completely made up. There is absolutely no scripture that you can produce that supports this false conclusion.

I have provided scriptural support that proves that you are in error. Instead of accepting the truth and adjusting your line of thought, you babel on and on and on and on.

You constantly use the word TRUTH but never have any scriptural support to back up the things that you have completely made up. There is no truth in that.

 

[Choose Wisely]

John was weeping because IN THE VISION OF THE PAST no man was found. In reality Jesus was found the moment He rose from the dead - but John was seeing a vision of the past, BEFORE Jesus rose from the dead - and then after He rose from the dead.

Surely you can understand history versus now versus future! THINK! It was a vision of the past for John.

Again, no amount of argument can reverse TRUTH. John saw a vision of the PAST as proven by the context.

So you're saying the word is in error.
Rev 1
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Try going by what the word says and quit making all this garbage up.

 

[iamlamad]

So John gets a revelation and is told that he is shown things that will shortly come to pass, and instead of believing exactly what is written you decide that God has spoken wrong and allowed himself to tell a falsehood.

Could you make a list of any other scriptures where God doesn't mean what He says?

When I see statements like this, I understand why you are in confusion.

You need to ask yourself a question - a really simple question really: DID God show John at least a few things that were FUTURE in chapters 6 through 21?

In other words, did God do exactly what He told John He would do?
My friend, ALL the confusion is on your side of this argument. Face it: God CHOSE to include something that was history to John, and you just cannot believe it. That is between you and God. I hope I am there when you ask God why He chose to include some history with His book of prophecy.