Pre-tribulation Rapture Believers Safe House

[Choose Wisely]

Song of Solomon 2
12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;

Have you ever noticed that some translations have added the word dove where the voice of the turtle has been changed to the voice of the turtle dove?

It made no sense to them that the voice of the turtle was heard in the land because turtles don't make much noise, so they just had to add the word dove.

 

[Copperhead]

Interesting stuff. Have seen a lot of stuff on how some equate the removal with the Feast of Trumpets. Had only heard of it being associated with Shavuot (Pentacost) but nothing much in the way of references that might allude to it. Always seems to be a little more to check out. Thanks for showing that perspective.

 

[Choose Wisely]

Interesting stuff. Have seen a lot of stuff on how some equate the removal with the Feast of Trumpets. Had only heard of it being associated with Shavuot (Pentacost) but nothing much in the way of references that might allude to it. Always seems to be a little more to check out. Thanks for showing that perspective.

I think that the 12 tribes will be raptured pre wrath on the Feast of Trumpets, at the last trump. The last trump is blown on the feast of trumpets. It is a fall harvest feast.

 

[iamlamad]

It's not his theory. He is merely proving a theory that already exists. I repeat.........proving.

It is going to be very difficult (think impossible) to "prove" an error!

 

[iamlamad]

I think that the 12 tribes will be raptured pre wrath on the Feast of Trumpets, at the last trump. The last trump is blown on the feast of trumpets. It is a fall harvest feast.

I think the CHURCH will be raptured at the feast of trumpets. I don't see Israel being caught up (resurrection of the Old Testament saints) until the 7th vial.

The 144,000 will be caught up sometime around the 7th trumpet. They are seen in heaven in chapter 14.

 

[Choose Wisely]

I think the CHURCH will be raptured at the feast of trumpets. I don't see Israel being caught up (resurrection of the Old Testament saints) until the 7th vial.

The 144,000 will be caught up sometime around the 7th trumpet. They are seen in heaven in chapter 14.

Rev 14 is the great multitude of Rev 7. If you don't think so then how is it possible for some to be cast into the wrath of God in Rev 14 and not be in the wrath of God beginning at the 1st trumpet?

 

[iamlamad]

CW, can I pick a little at this? I am in full agreement that this happens before the seals are open. I am not sure this removal will be all that secret. Paul seems to suggest that...

1 Thessalonians 4:16 (NKJV) For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

I am convinced that it is going to be a wake up call to the world. Kinda like the 2 minute warning in Football. Folks may not have a grasp on what happened, but they sure are going to know something did.

I think that is why Satan has gone to some pretty great lengths to explain away the removal. Many of the UFO adherents and New Age channeler types have written extensively on how many people will be removed by UFO's because they are hindering mankind's advance. They even go so far to explain that children will be removed. While I don't subscribe to these idiot's writings, I find it interesting that Satan even explains away children. Could it be that the Lord feels that children have not yet reached a point of accountability for sin and therefore He takes them along when the Church is removed? Who knows but it sure is interesting nonetheless.

This video is not very long, but it goes into some pretty good detail and outlines and documents what some of these kooks have written about the removal / rapture. Eastman makes a pretty good observation.... these folks have done a lot of work explaining away a pre-trib rapture, but have not wasted any time on a post trib rapture. A couple of places will bring out a chuckle when you hear it.

I am convinced children will go. It is harvest time and I think God will harvest all He can possibly get at this time. If we take the Bride of Christ and all the children, perhaps 50% of the earth's population will suddenly disappear! this will shake the world like nothing else has ever!

 

[Choose Wisely]

It is going to be very difficult (think impossible) to "prove" an error!

lol. I thought he did a great job. You just seem to look past things like they aren't there, such as seeing the harvest of Rev 14 as imaginary instead of dealing with it and it's timing. It's easy to make your theories work when you can toss out the scriptures you don't like

 

[Chinchilla]

When is Ezekiel war , before rapture or after ? Or is it at the same time rapture occurs ?

 

[Choose Wisely]

When is Ezekiel war , before rapture or after ? Or is it at the same time rapture occurs ?

After the 7 years.............1000 years after.

Ezekiel 38
1 And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
3 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

Rev 20
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 

[Choose Wisely]

When is Ezekiel war , before rapture or after ? Or is it at the same time rapture occurs ?

Israel is living behind walls. They are not living safely. When Christ returns the walls will come down. It is after the 1000 years that Gog Magog happens...........JUST LIKE IT SAYS.

Ezekiel 38
11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

14 Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord God; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?
15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:

https://images.search.yahoo.com/sea...Gl2cw--?p=israel+walls&fr2=piv-web&fr=yfp-t-m

 

[iamlamad]

lol. I thought he did a great job. You just seem to look past things like they aren't there, such as seeing the harvest of Rev 14 as imaginary instead of dealing with it and it's timing. It's easy to make your theories work when you can toss out the scriptures you don't like

Its not imaginary! It is prophetic! There is a difference! It is not tossing it out, it is understanding the intent of the author!

 

[iamlamad]

Rev 14 is the great multitude of Rev 7. If you don't think so then how is it possible for some to be cast into the wrath of God in Rev 14 and not be in the wrath of God beginning at the 1st trumpet?

Say what? What proof do you have that Rev. 14 has ANY connection with the great crowd in Rev, 7? In chapter 7, it is the raptured church in heaven. Chapter 14 is talking about the 144,000 descendants of Jacob: two different groups. Surely this 144,000 is not what you are writing of!

Did you ever ask yourself, if all the wicked is killed in chapter 14, then who is doing the murdering of the saints in chapter 15? Who then are the goats at the judgment? This is why I see the sickle judgment in chapter 14 as prophetic.

OF COURSE people on earth are going to be IN the wrath of God at the first trumpet, because His wrath begins at the 6th seal. there is no conflict!

 

[Choose Wisely]

Say what? What proof do you have that Rev. 14 has ANY connection with the great crowd in Rev, 7?

I just showed you the connection. Several times. I'll ask you again, how is it that the wrath of God is shown coming at the 6th seal and starts in the 7th seal and yet the people in Rev 14 are cast into the great winepress of the wrath of God. Did the people in Rev 14 escape all the trumpets?........and now finally get cast into the wrath of God?

Rev 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Rev 15
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

In chapter 7, it is the raptured church in heaven.

It's more than just the raptured Church. The Church is raptured pre trib.......before any seals are open. The great multitude includes the church gathered from heaven and the 12 tribes scattered across the world, that get regrafted, and others. God keeps his promise and sends 144,000 witnesses from the 12 tribes to the people of the 12 tribes. We can prove this because the 144000 are the firstfruits. That means the harvest is the 12 tribes. If the firstfruits are pumpkins, the harvest is pumpkins.

Chapter 14 is talking about the 144,000 descendants of Jacob: two different groups. Surely this 144,000 is not what you are writing of!

Don't you notice that in Rev 7 you have 12,000 from each tribe sealed, 144,000......and then you have a great multitude. Then in Rev 14 you have 144,000 first fruits.....and then you have a harvest....a great multitude. The multitude that you see includes the Church that was harvested pre trib. The 12 tribes are harvested pre wrath.

Did you ever ask yourself, if all the wicked is killed in chapter 14, then who is doing the murdering of the saints in chapter 15?

They are tossed into the winepress of the wrath of God in Rev 14. The wrath is just beginning. They go through the wrath of God first. At the end of the wrath of God they are destroyed. That happens when we come with Jesus on white horses. We can see this in Rev 19

Rev 19
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
This is what is shown at the end of Rev 14........the end of the wrath of God. These verses in Rev 19 and Rev 14 are talking about the same thing.
Rev 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Who then are the goats at the judgment? This is why I see the sickle judgment in chapter 14 as prophetic.

There will be a resurrection before this judgment.

OF COURSE people on earth are going to be IN the wrath of God at the first trumpet, because His wrath begins at the 6th seal. there is no conflict!

Yes wrath is seen coming at the end of the 6th seal and occurs at the 7th seal. It also begins toward the end of Rev 14 and ends at the end of Rev 14. We see that ending again in Rev 19 as shown above in red.

 

[iamlamad]

I just showed you the connection. Several times. I'll ask you again, how is it that the wrath of God is shown coming at the 6th seal and starts in the 7th seal and yet the people in Rev 14 are cast into the great winepress of the wrath of God. Did the people in Rev 14 escape all the trumpets?........and now finally get cast into the wrath of God?

Rev 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Rev 15
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.


It's more than just the raptured Church. The Church is raptured pre trib.......before any seals are open. The great multitude includes the church gathered from heaven and the 12 tribes scattered across the world, that get regrafted, and others. God keeps his promise and sends 144,000 witnesses from the 12 tribes to the people of the 12 tribes. We can prove this because the 144000 are the firstfruits. That means the harvest is the 12 tribes. If the firstfruits are pumpkins, the harvest is pumpkins.

Don't you notice that in Rev 7 you have 12,000 from each tribe sealed, 144,000......and then you have a great multitude. Then in Rev 14 you have 144,000 first fruits.....and then you have a harvest....a great multitude. The multitude that you see includes the Church that was harvested pre trib. The 12 tribes are harvested pre wrath.


They are tossed into the winepress of the wrath of God in Rev 14. The wrath is just beginning. They go through the wrath of God first. At the end of the wrath of God they are destroyed. That happens when we come with Jesus on white horses. We can see this in Rev 19

Rev 19
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
This is what is shown at the end of Rev 14........the end of the wrath of God. These verses in Rev 19 and Rev 14 are talking about the same thing.
Rev 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

There will be a resurrection before this judgment.



Yes wrath is seen coming at the end of the 6th seal and occurs at the 7th seal. It also begins toward the end of Rev 14 and ends at the end of Rev 14. We see that ending again in Rev 19 as shown above in red.

"how is it that the wrath of God is shown coming at the 6th seal and starts in the 7th seal and yet the people in Rev 14 are cast into the great winepress of the wrath of God. Did the people in Rev 14 escape all the trumpets?........and now finally get cast into the wrath of God?"
Surely you understand that no mater what, time passes. It just happens.
Also in the book of Revelation time passes. Even in the context of the first seal, chapters 4 & 5, we see time passing: a time when Jesus was NOT in the throne room - to a time when He suddenly appeared; a time when "no man was found" to a time Jesus was found worthy.

In time, chapter 6 comes long before chapter 14. The entire first half of the 70th week comes between. OK, so His wrath starts at the 7th seal. I will not disagree with that. That is His wrath BEGINNING. It will continue on through the entire week. I am even convinced the SON has wrath when He returns.

So what's the problem? God is still angry in chapter 14. What do you mean by "escape?" They lived through the trumpet judgments (which certainly came with God's wrath) and survived. They are of course still alive in chapter 14. And if God is still angry, they have not repented! They cannot be killed twice! But my question to you: will God REALLY "harvest" humans with a sickle - and will He actually do it in the time frame of chapter 14, which is slightly after the midpoint of the week? i say no. I say this is a prophetic preview of the righteous who will be beheaded and for the unrighteous at the battle of Armageddon.

 

[iamlamad]

It's more than just the raptured Church. The Church is raptured pre trib.......before any seals are open.

You are still mistaken on this, not understanding the context of the first seals - the vision of the throne room and God's purpose for showing it. the first seals are history to us. The sooner you realize this, the less error you will be teaching.

You should be able to see this because you already see that God's wrath does not begin until the 6th seal (you say the 7th). In other words, there is no wrath of God for seals 1-5. And why not? Because they are church age events.

Next, it seems you still don't know where "trib" or the 70th week begins. I have written it over and over: the 70th week is "marked" by 7's: the 7th seal begins the week, the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint and the 7th vial ends it. Don't doubt me on this!
Therefore, "pretrib" means pre 6th seal. (We are out of here before God's wrath - first mentioned at the 6th seal).

This fits perfectly with Paul in 1 thes. 5. He mentioned the DAY just three verses after the rapture verse. Why? Because the rapture event will trigger the start of the DAY. Paul also shows us that wrath starts immediately after the rapture. Why? Because the Day of the Lord IS the Day of His wrath. Paul wrote that God would set no appointments for us with His wrath. WE (those living in Christ) get "salvation" by way of rapture, while AT THE SAME MOMENT IN TIME - those living in the darkness of the world gets Paul's "sudden destruction." That would be the worldwide earthquake at the 6th seal. I am convinced, this earthquake will be CAUSED by the dead in Christ rising.

 

[iamlamad]

...The great multitude includes the church gathered from heaven and the 12 tribes scattered across the world, that get regrafted, and others. God keeps his promise and sends 144,000 witnesses from the 12 tribes to the people of the 12 tribes. We can prove this because the 144000 are the firstfruits. That means the harvest is the 12 tribes. If the firstfruits are pumpkins, the harvest is pumpkins.

Don't you notice that in Rev 7 you have 12,000 from each tribe sealed, 144,000......and then you have a great multitude. Then in Rev 14 you have 144,000 first fruits.....and then you have a harvest....a great multitude. The multitude that you see includes the Church that was harvested pre trib. The 12 tribes are harvested pre wrath.

What happens in a play, when the curtain closes? You cannot see it, but they are rearranging the set - so when the curtain opens for the next act, the setting fits the new act.

John is taking us one by one through the seals - so think "ACT 1." This first act takes us all the way to seal 6: the rapture and then the instant start of judgment. Seal 7 begins ANOTHER ACT: the 70th week of Daniel. However, John must first "rearrange the setting" to fit the next act.

You see, two events MUST take place before the the 70th week (it opens with the 7th seal and starts with the trumpet judgments) can begin. What are these two events? First, God seals the 144,000 descendants of Jacob for their protection during the trumpet judgments.

Next, and TOTALLY UNRELATED to the 144,000, God sees the church safely in heaven, via Paul's rapture. This is the great crowd too large to number. They were JUST raptured a moment before the 6th seal earthquake - which is Paul's "sudden destruction." Yes, they ARE "firstfruits" of the descendants of Jacob. Agreed. Totally unrelated to the church.

So WHEN will be the harvest of the Hebrew people? The 144,000 are raptured to heaven sometime around the midpoint of the week as firstfruits. The main harvest will come at the 7th vial when ALL the Old Testament saints are raised up - that is all except for the elder that Jesus raised up when He rose.

The truth then is very plain, the great crowd - too large to number, is the JUST raptured church, and have NO RELATIONSHIP to the 144,000 except God showed them to John one after the other. Just keep in mind, BOTH events must happen before the 7th seal can be opened to begin the 70th week of Daniel.

Sorry, error: the church is NOT gathered from heaven! How do you come up with this stuff? You know as well as I that Paul's rapture (gathering) gathers from EARTH. Then they are escorted TO heaven. And you know it happens pretrib.

There WILL BE a gathering that will gather from heaven, and from earth - AFTER the days of GT. But that will be God gathering all the descendants of Jacob back to Israel. You keep wanting to MIX the church with the 144,000. We may well be grafted into that tree, but for the most part, the church will be GENTILES. Next, the 144,000 are ON EARTH and sealed for their protection, while the great crowd too large to number just got raptured to heaven: TWO different groups - TWO different purposes.

I know some born again Jews imagine this great crowd is because the 144,000 Hebrews went out evangelizing. That is unscriptural: John tells us NOTHING like this. There is not one word written about what the 144,000 Hebrews will do. The 144,000 are HEBREWS, while the great crowd too large to number are GENTILE members of the church.

"God keeps his promise and sends 144,000 witnesses from the 12 tribes to the people of the 12 tribes. " Please show us a verse for this? I suspect this is your imagination. Where is this promise written?

That means the harvest is the 12 tribes. Yes, of course God will reap a harvest from the 12 tribes. First, the righteous dead from the Old Covenant will be raised on "the last day" at the 7th vial. It will cause the world's worst earthquake. That will be a part of the harvest. But the rest of the harvest will be the sheep from the sheep and goat judgment that live through everything and are descendants of Jacob.

And of course some of the beheaded will be Hebrews who refuse the mark and lose their head.

The 12 tribes are harvested pre wrath. Scripture please. I think it is more imagination.

 

[iamlamad]

They are tossed into the winepress of the wrath of God in Rev 14. The wrath is just beginning. They go through the wrath of God first. At the end of the wrath of God they are destroyed. That happens when we come with Jesus on white horses. We can see this in Rev 19

Rev 19
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
This is what is shown at the end of Rev 14........the end of the wrath of God. These verses in Rev 19 and Rev 14 are talking about the same thing.
Rev 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

There will be a resurrection before this judgment.

Yes wrath is seen coming at the end of the 6th seal and occurs at the 7th seal. It also begins toward the end of Rev 14 and ends at the end of Rev 14. We see that ending again in Rev 19 as shown above in red.

Do you imagine that God gets angry, then gets over it - then gets angry and gets over it, again and again? Where or how do you come up with this?

This is SO SIMPLE: God begins His wrath at the start of the DAY as shown at the 6th seal. His wrath continues on through the trumpet judgments, then on through chapters 11 through 16 where the 70th week ends. The ENTIRE 70TH WEEK comes with God's wrath. So OF COURSE He has wrath in chapter 14! He also was angry during chapter 13 and during chapter 15 and 16. Don't make this so complicated!

So His wrath DOES NOT "begin" nor does it "end" in chapter 14. Period and end of story. His wrath begins right where John shows us, at the 6th seal. And it continues on through the entire week. And I am convinced Jesus will have wrath at the battle of Armegeddon.

By the way, just WHEN is chapter 14 in John's chronology? The midpoint came at the 7th trumpet in chapter 11. Chapter 12 is only seconds after the midpoint. Chapter 13, first few verses are in the real time timeline and are also right after the midpoint. But then John finishes chapter 13 as a parenthesis, taking us down the last half of he week with the two beasts. But in chapter 14, John is right back on his timeline but perhaps a few minutes or hours or days after the midpoint. Notice that God warns here not to take the mark - showing us that the mark has not yet been established.

We know from chapter 12 that Satan, the Dragon will go after those who fled. But we Jesusalso know he will not be successful. then it is written that he goes after those that love . But what we don't read is that any are found and killed yet. Why? Because Satan will use the Beast to do that, and God has to introduce John to the two Beasts first, so chapter 13.

The truth is, the days of GT that are the worst will not begin until after chapter 14 when the image is erected and the mark created.

What then Is God trying to show us about this harvest with sickles in chapter 14 - some very short time after the midpoint? The truth is, the False prophet may not have showed up yet! The mark not created yet. So where are all these people harvested just after the midpoint of the week?

Do you see why I believe this portion of the vision is prophetic and pointed to later on in the last half of the week? It is a mental picture of what is soon to come - in my opinion. I have no "revelation" on chapter 14. I can therefore only use human reasoning and do my best with understanding the text.

...in Rev 14. The wrath is just beginning.
No it is not! That is imagination! God's wrath will begin at the 6th seal and continue on through the vials of His wrath. And that will include during chapter 14.

At the end of the wrath of God they are destroyed. AT the Battle of Armegeddon millions will be destroyed: the armies of the world converge on Israel, and most will be killed.

Then more will be destroyed when the parable of the tares plays out. And then finally, all the rest of the unrighteous will be destroyed at the sheep and goat judgment. Again, this is why I think the harvest with the sickles is prophetic, showing what will soon come - as in chapters 15 and 16.

Perhaps in your mind you imagine John's book is out of order and you are trying to put in into the correct order? You know the vials (filled with His wrath) come after chapter 14. Is this what you are doing?

This is what is shown at the end of Rev 14........the end of the wrath of God. These verses in Rev 19 and Rev 14 are talking about the same thing.
Aha! That IS what you are doing: rearranging!

Yes, they ARE talking about the same thing: but in chapter 14 it is prophetic - looking forward in time to what is coming soon.

 

[iamlamad]

This is what is shown at the end of Rev 14........the end of the wrath of God. These verses in Rev 19 and Rev 14 are talking about the same thing.
Rev 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

There will be a resurrection before this judgment.

Yes wrath is seen coming at the end of the 6th seal and occurs at the 7th seal. It also begins toward the end of Rev 14 and ends at the end of Rev 14. We see that ending again in Rev 19 as shown above in red.

A resurrection? Show us the verse, or change your theory! I suspect more imagination.
I disagree MUCH with your theories. I don't think Revelation needs any rearranging.

 

[Choose Wisely]

"how is it that the wrath of God is shown coming at the 6th seal and starts in the 7th seal and yet the people in Rev 14 are cast into the great winepress of the wrath of God. Did the people in Rev 14 escape all the trumpets?........and now finally get cast into the wrath of God?"
Surely you understand that no mater what, time passes. It just happens.
Also in the book of Revelation time passes. Even in the context of the first seal, chapters 4 & 5, we see time passing: a time when Jesus was NOT in the throne room - to a time when He suddenly appeared; a time when "no man was found" to a time Jesus was found worthy.

In time, chapter 6 comes long before chapter 14. The entire first half of the 70th week comes between. OK, so His wrath starts at the 7th seal. I will not disagree with that. That is His wrath BEGINNING. It will continue on through the entire week. I am even convinced the SON has wrath when He returns.

So what's the problem? God is still angry in chapter 14. What do you mean by "escape?" They lived through the trumpet judgments (which certainly came with God's wrath) and survived. They are of course still alive in chapter 14. And if God is still angry, they have not repented! They cannot be killed twice! But my question to you: will God REALLY "harvest" humans with a sickle - and will He actually do it in the time frame of chapter 14, which is slightly after the midpoint of the week? i say no. I say this is a prophetic preview of the righteous who will be beheaded and for the unrighteous at the battle of Armageddon.

Your time frames are all messed up. We see the 7 churches. They represent the church age UNTIL they are gone. They are not mentioned again after Rev 3 until they are seen in heaven at the end of revelation. The seals are opened after the church is gone pretrib. When the seals are opened God turns his attention to His chosen people.......hence the 70th week of Daniel.

As for the sickle, come on man, you know that it represents a harvest. It is the harvest of the 12 tribes as proven by the 144000 1st fruits.