Pre-trib Rapture=any day now! Are you ready to meet Jesus?

[Jezmeyah]

Keep reading the article Both preterism and Futerism are discussed

I do not have any interest in reading further of that link you gave. If I was aware that I'd been taught from Ribera, you'd think, wouldn't you? that I'd want to read it.
But I don't care to read it. I'm not interested in reading about Preterism, anymore than I'd want to read about something that is simply not a part of my life. And, I am enough familiar with "Futurism" that I don't need to read it as if I was not familiar with it.

Like all Christians should be led of the Lord.. I will continue to strictly read from scripture and allow the Holy Spirit to lead and guide me into all truth. Along with Bible commentators and other Christians that I am interesting in reading of, all of which I have not read that they mention Ribera, nor teach on Preterism.

 

[BABerean2]

I do not have any interest in reading further of that link you gave. If I was aware that I'd been taught from Ribera, you'd think, wouldn't you? that I'd want to read it.
But I don't care to read it. I'm not interested in reading about Preterism, anymore than I'd want to read about something that is simply not a part of my life. And, I am enough familiar with "Futurism" that I don't need to read it as if I was not familiar with it.

Like all Christians should be led of the Lord.. I will continue to strictly read from scripture and allow the Holy Spirit to lead and guide me into all truth. Along with Bible commentators and other Christians that I am interesting in reading of, all of which I have not read that they mention Ribera, nor teach on Preterism.

Genesis of modern Dispensational Theology and the link to Ribera and the CounterReformation.

This doctrine has come to so dominate the modern Church that many have never heard anything else, but have no idea where the doctrine came from.

 

[Jezmeyah]

Genesis of modern Dispensational Theology and the link to Ribera and the CounterReformation.

This doctrine has come to so dominate the modern Church that many have never heard anything else, but have no idea where the doctrine came from.

You will have to wait until someone else responds to your post. I'm not interested in continuing to respond to them anymore.

 

[Jezmeyah]

Therefore comfort one another with these words.​

Peaceful Sabbath.

Thank you for your kind wisdom. Such is always, helpful and appreciated.

 

[Jezmeyah]

Therefore comfort one another with these words.​

Peaceful Sabbath.

I'm addressing your post concerning my post in this thread that discusses eschatology.

Yours apparently not posting your disagreement or agreement with myself or with those I was engaged in discussion, but your post was to point out how I expressed my strong stance position in disagreeing with another poster.

I believe that your post was to indicate your criticism of how I indicated my disagreement.

This presents a problem, as I have seen similar postings from others who used similar means to disagree.
I am sorry but I don't recall if your post followed it to indicate your criticism of how they posted.

But I do ask, would you have a post somewhere on the forum that addresses this concern of yours?

 

[Ronald]

Ronald,

I most certainly agree with almost everything you said above.
However, it looks like you are not really "Mid-Trib", based on what you just said.

If the 7th trump is the last trump and then we have the judgment of the dead at Revelation 11:18, then that is the end of the story.

Revelation chapter 12 begins with a review of Church history, which includes the birth and death of Christ.

This means the book is really a series of overlapping visions, which are not in a chronological order.

We have those hiding from the Lamb at the end of chapter 6.

Then we have the last trump and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 11.

We have the "harvest" of chapter 14.

We have Christ coming as a thief at Armageddon in Revelation 16:15-16.

We have another return of Christ in chapter 19.

There is no way to make all of these fit into a perfect chronological sequence.
.

Sorry about the delay, been preoccupied.
I agree the Revelation is not chronological, therefore the pieces of the multidimensional sphere of events can fit where they belong in God's order.
Rev. 10:7 (the mystery of god revealed which also is described in 1 Cor.15:51-53), Rev. 11:15 (the 7th trumpet), even Rev. 7:9 where the multitude in heaven that just came out of the Great Tribulation is seen is all representative the rapture event. These scriptures are just different vantage points of the same event.
The kingdoms of the world become the Lord's at this time. We receive rewards. The Temple of God is opened(Rev. 11:19 & 15:5) and the time of judgment of God's wrath is released in the bowls at this time (11:18). The bowls are released in chapter 16 but there is no intermission for chapters 12-15, no these are also different vantage points. So as soon as the last trumpet sounds, the bowls are then released. Chapter 12 speaks partly of history, symbolically the woman is Israel and the child is Christ but it also has a literal meaning pointing to the sign in the heavens that will appears on 9-23-2017. Chapter 13 is partly history, a summation describes the Beast and brings us up to the GT. The Beast is Islam, not a revived Roman Empire. Ten nations and seven leaders will come against Israel. Who surrounds them and has been against them throughout history? Islam. Their signature is chopping off heads (see Rev. 20:4). Chapter 14 is another vantage point of chapter 7 which describes the 144K but also the coming of Christ in the clouds in Judgment, a blood bath 200 miles long the height of a horse. When you think of that, it represents equivalent to
billions of dead bodies stacked up. Chapter 15 is an introduction to 16.
Christ coming as a thief in the night in Rev.16:15-16 is a call to Israel not the church. We are not in the dark so that Christ for us will not come as a thief (1 Thes. 5:4 - this day shall not overtake us like a thief) We are the children of LIGHT. But at time, I believe many Jews will be saved (Rom.11) and so much of this tribulation involves them and surrounds them. Many verses describe "all nations come against Jerusalem" don't they. And the Beast has manifested itself in many civilizations in the past: Babylon, Assyria, Persia, Egypt, Rome, Greece, etc. but now it is Islam, I'm certain of that. It is not the EU or the US that will attack Israel. Russia and China may be involved but how many Islamic nations are there who all hate Israel. Well, that's my take and so the last (7th trumpet) is in the middle. You can call it pre-wrath as well.

 

[Ronald]

Daniel 2:27
Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, shew unto the king;

Your statements above seem to fall into the astrologers classification. This interpretation of scripture is a fantastic deception of Bible interpretation IMHO

In Bible prophecy, God's church is symbolized by a pure woman (Jeremiah 6:2). In Revelation 12, this woman is clothed with the sun, moon, and stars--the natural light of God's creation. Jesus told the church, "Ye are the light of the world." Matthew 5:14. The sun represents the light of Jesus (Psalms 84:11; Malachi 4:2). The moon under her feet represents the types and shadows of the Old Testament sacrificial system. As the moon reflects the light of the sun, so the sacrificial system was helpful because it reflected the light of the Messiah to come (Colossians 2:16, 17; Hebrews 10:1). The 12 stars above her head symbolize the leadership of the

church--12 tribes in the Old Testament and 12 apostles in the New Testament. The one who is to rule all nations with a rod of iron is Jesus (Psalms 2:7-9; Revelation 19:13-16).
A Tale of Two Women | Storacle Lessons | Amazing Facts

It's not Astrology, we aren't talking about horoscopes, the effects of the planets on people and their personalities. Astronomy is a real science. The Jews used the stars, moon and sun for signs and Gen.1:14 states that. Historically, they used the Massoroth as well -- look it up.
This event is unique and will occur on 9-23-2017 and has occurred before on Sept 11, 3 B.C.E. The wise most likely followed the planet Jupiter that came into Virgo, moved around for 9 months in her womb and past out between her legs. Or do you think that is a coincidence? This is ASTRONOMICAL AND BIBLICAL.
You can choose to symbolize scripture and make it read what you want it to or follow others who just didn't get it, so they say it must mean light and shadows, bla, bla, bla ... whatever.

 

[BABerean2]

Christ coming as a thief in the night in Rev.16:15-16 is a call to Israel not the church. We are not in the dark so that Christ for us will not come as a thief (1 Thes. 5:4 - this day shall not overtake us like a thief) We are the children of LIGHT. But at time, I believe many Jews will be saved (Rom.11) and so much of this tribulation involves them and surrounds them. Many verses describe "all nations come against Jerusalem" don't they. And the Beast has manifested itself in many civilizations in the past: Babylon, Assyria, Persia, Egypt, Rome, Greece, etc. but now it is Islam, I'm certain of that. It is not the EU or the US that will attack Israel. Russia and China may be involved but how many Islamic nations are there who all hate Israel. Well, that's my take and so the last (7th trumpet) is in the middle. You can call it pre-wrath as well.

I read Marvin Rosenthal's book several years ago and also considered myself Pre-wrath at that time.
However, I came to understand that there is no 7 year tribulation period anywhere in the Bible.
It can be produced by taking Daniel 9:27 out of its context, by adding an antichrist and a "gap" of time not found in the chapter. However, Christ it the New Covenant Messiah. He said at the Last Supper that He would bring in this New Covenant in His Blood. The covenant with the many in Daniel 9:27 is the same covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28. The New Covenant was promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Daniel was reading from Jeremiah when Gabriel appeared. Are we supposed to think that Gabriel came to deliver the timeline of the New Covenant Messiah's arrival, but forgot to mention the New Covenant?
Take a look at the link below.

Who Confirmed The Covenant?
James Lloyd
http://christianmediaresearch.com/node/1023

The other way of producing the 7 years is by adding together two of the references to the 3 1/2 year period of time found in the Book of Revelation.

When viewed in context, the 7th trumpet at Revelation 11:15 is the last trumpet in the Bible.

The time of God's wrath and the time of the Judgment of the dead is found at Revelation 11:18.

END OF STORY This is the Second Coming.

Chapter 12 starts with a history of the Church and tells the story again from another angle.

The Olive Tree of Romans 11 is a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of Israelite and Gentile branches grafted together. Paul said the branches broken off can be grafted back into the tree through faith in Christ.
This is the manner that all Israel that is Israel will be saved, through accepting the New Covenant Messiah. (Romans 9:6-8, Romans 11:26-27)

Paul provides no path to salvation outside of the Olive Tree.

In Hebrews 8:6-13 we find the New Covenant fulfilled by Christ.

There is no Plan B.
.

 

[iamlamad]

Sorry about the delay, been preoccupied.
I agree the Revelation is not chronological, therefore the pieces of the multidimensional sphere of events can fit where they belong in God's order.
Rev. 10:7 (the mystery of god revealed which also is described in 1 Cor.15:51-53), Rev. 11:15 (the 7th trumpet), even Rev. 7:9 where the multitude in heaven that just came out of the Great Tribulation is seen is all representative the rapture event. These scriptures are just different vantage points of the same event.
The kingdoms of the world become the Lord's at this time. We receive rewards. The Temple of God is opened(Rev. 11:19 & 15:5) and the time of judgment of God's wrath is released in the bowls at this time (11:18). The bowls are released in chapter 16 but there is no intermission for chapters 12-15, no these are also different vantage points. So as soon as the last trumpet sounds, the bowls are then released. Chapter 12 speaks partly of history, symbolically the woman is Israel and the child is Christ but it also has a literal meaning pointing to the sign in the heavens that will appears on 9-23-2017. Chapter 13 is partly history, a summation describes the Beast and brings us up to the GT. The Beast is Islam, not a revived Roman Empire. Ten nations and seven leaders will come against Israel. Who surrounds them and has been against them throughout history? Islam. Their signature is chopping off heads (see Rev. 20:4). Chapter 14 is another vantage point of chapter 7 which describes the 144K but also the coming of Christ in the clouds in Judgment, a blood bath 200 miles long the height of a horse. When you think of that, it represents equivalent to
billions of dead bodies stacked up. Chapter 15 is an introduction to 16.
Christ coming as a thief in the night in Rev.16:15-16 is a call to Israel not the church. We are not in the dark so that Christ for us will not come as a thief (1 Thes. 5:4 - this day shall not overtake us like a thief) We are the children of LIGHT. But at time, I believe many Jews will be saved (Rom.11) and so much of this tribulation involves them and surrounds them. Many verses describe "all nations come against Jerusalem" don't they. And the Beast has manifested itself in many civilizations in the past: Babylon, Assyria, Persia, Egypt, Rome, Greece, etc. but now it is Islam, I'm certain of that. It is not the EU or the US that will attack Israel. Russia and China may be involved but how many Islamic nations are there who all hate Israel. Well, that's my take and so the last (7th trumpet) is in the middle. You can call it pre-wrath as well.

I agree the Revelation is not chronological,
When you make a statement like this, it must proven with scripture correctly understood. I disagree. It is written and you must prove it is not written in the right order.

the pieces of the multidimensional sphere of events can fit where they belong in God's order.
God's order is as it is written.

Rev. 10:7 (the mystery of god revealed which also is described in 1 Cor.15:51-53) This is making an assumption that the 1 Cor. 15 is the mystery intended as written in chapter 10. I don't think it is. There is no rapture at the 7th trumpet. People have been trying to prove this unsuccessfully for years. There will be no way to prove this 7th trumpet is Paul's last trump, for it is not.

Rev. 11:15 (the 7th trumpet), even Rev. 7:9 where the multitude in heaven that just came out of the Great Tribulation is seen is all representative the rapture event. These scriptures are just different vantage points of the same event. This again is a HUGE assumption that cannot be proven. There is simply no connection between the group too large to count, in chapter 7, with the 7th trumpet. We can't create theories on assumptions. There is no way to prove by scripture that these two events are related in any way, much less be the same event.

What does John TELL US at the 7th trumpet? A rapture? NOT! No, John tells us the kingdoms of the world are taken from Satan and given to Christ. So the mystery in question is WHY HERE? Why at the 7th trumpet are the kingdoms given to Christ? What has changed to cause this amazing thing? Then if we read ahead, we see that Michael goes after Satan to cast him down. Certainly this is related to Satan losing the kingdoms of the world. So again, what is this mystery that caused Satan to lose at this time? It is most certainly NOT the mystery of 1 Cor. 15. Neither is it the mystery found in Ephesians.

the time of judgment of God's wrath is released in the bowls at this time (11:18). The bowls are released in chapter 16 but there is no intermission for chapters 12-15, no these are also different vantage points. So as soon as the last trumpet sounds, the bowls are then released.
This is myth. The bowls will be released as shown in chapter 16, which will be around 3 1/2 years in the future of chapter 11, which is a midpoint chapter. What is here in chapter 11 is a PROPHECY of coming events. They don't happen here, they are prophesied here.

Chapter 12 speaks partly of history, symbolically the woman is Israel and the child is Christ but it also has a literal meaning pointing to the sign in the heavens that will appears on 9-23-2017.
I think this theory of the signs in the heavens at 9/23/17 are more myth. It is not the same as the sign when Christ was born. You are right here, these first 5 verses are history and are literally about Christ's birth. Chapter 12 is about Jesus introducing John to the dragon, and what the dragon would be doing during the last half of the week, but Jesus CHOSE to show John what the dragon did when He was born - how Satan used King Herod to attempt to murder Him. There may possibly be a hidden or symbolic meaning but I doubt it.

there is no intermission for chapters 12-15 I think most of chapters 10 - 15 are intermission except for a few verses of what I would call "real time" of the seals, trumpets and vials.

Chapter 13 is partly history, a summation describes the Beast and brings us up to the GT.
After God introduced John to the Dragon, then in chapter 13 God introduced John to the Beast that will be controlled by the Dragon. It is not history in John's narrative, for the Beast will not be revealed as the Beast until the moment he enters the temple and declares he is God, which will divide the week into two halves. Chapter 13 is very close to the midpoint. So at the midpoint, the man of sin is revealed as the Beast. And in chapter 13, God describes what he and the false prophet will do. Most of chapter 13 is written as a parenthesis. In other words, God takes us on a side journey down the last half of the week with the Beast and false prophet. It is not a part of the narrative chronology. Some of what we see in chapter 13 will take place towards the end of the week. (This is also what John does with the two witnesses: 11"4-11:13 are written as a parenthesis.) Following Johns chronology, chapter 14 is still close the the midpoint. The days of great tribulation that Jesus spoke of will not begin until the Beast and False prophet have created their image and mark and then enforce their rules: worship the image or die. Take the mark or die. These days will begin in chapter 15.

The Beast is Islam, not a revived Roman Empire. I think most of the nations that surround Israel today (that is the land areas) were a part of the Eastern leg of the Roman Empire - that is the Byzantine Empire. So perhaps it is considered part of the Roman Empire by God. However, even at its biggest the Roman empire never took in much of Iran. I think you are right on Islam.

Chapter 14 is another vantage point of chapter 7 which describes the 144K
I would rather think chapter 14 is the LAST LOOK at the 144,000. People wish to argue this point, but I think they have been raptured to heaven in chapter 14. Therefore, I don't see it as another vantage point UNLESS it is a vantage point of TIME.

the coming of Christ in the clouds in Judgment, a blood bath 200 miles long the height of a horse. When you think of that, it represents equivalent to billions of dead bodies stacked up.
I believe this part of chapter 14 is given as prophecy (symbolically protrayed) of coming events: i.e. the battle of Armageddon. I don't think they happen in the timing of chapter 14, which is a mid point chapter or very soon after.

Chapter 15 is an introduction to 16. Finally we agree! hallelujah!

Christ coming as a thief in the night in Rev.16:15-16 is a call to Israel not the church.
WELL SAID! Good.

so the last (7th trumpet) is in the middle I believe the 7th trumpet sounds in heaven when the man of sin declares he is God and the week is divided. Therefore the 7th trumpet is the exact midpoint. Again we agree. (But it is NOT the rapture! There is not gathering there.)

You can call it pre-wrath as well If I am not mistaken, Prewrath believes the rapture to come just a moment before the 6th seal, which seal begins the wrath of God.

 

[iamlamad]

I read Marvin Rosenthal's book several years ago and also considered myself Pre-wrath at that time.
However, I came to understand that there is no 7 year tribulation period anywhere in the Bible.
It can be produced by taking Daniel 9:27 out of its context, by adding an antichrist and a "gap" of time not found in the chapter. However, Christ it the New Covenant Messiah. He said at the Last Supper that He would bring in this New Covenant in His Blood. The covenant with the many in Daniel 9:27 is the same covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28. The New Covenant was promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Daniel was reading from Jeremiah when Gabriel appeared. Are we supposed to think that Gabriel came to deliver the timeline of the New Covenant Messiah's arrival, but forgot to mention the New Covenant?
Take a look at the link below.

Who Confirmed The Covenant?
James Lloyd
http://christianmediaresearch.com/node/1023

The other way of producing the 7 years is by adding together two of the references to the 3 1/2 year period of time found in the Book of Revelation.

When viewed in context, the 7th trumpet at Revelation 11:15 is the last trumpet in the Bible.

The time of God's wrath and the time of the Judgment of the dead is found at Revelation 11:18.

END OF STORY This is the Second Coming.

Chapter 12 starts with a history of the Church and tells the story again from another angle.

The Olive Tree of Romans 11 is a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of Israelite and Gentile branches grafted together. Paul said the branches broken off can be grafted back into the tree through faith in Christ.
This is the manner that all Israel that is Israel will be saved, through accepting the New Covenant Messiah. (Romans 9:6-8, Romans 11:26-27)

Paul provides no path to salvation outside of the Olive Tree.

In Hebrews 8:6-13 we find the New Covenant fulfilled by Christ.

There is no Plan B.
.

Sorry, but plan B was God turning the the Gentiles!

 

[AJTruth]

Caught up/snatched/raptured:

1st The Lord Himself arrives unannounced to call out the true church, His Bride. This event (described in 1 Thes 4:16-17 as the rapture - catching-up)

This is different from His visible return in power & glory 7 yrs later. On that day His feet will stand on The Mt Of Olive (Zec 14:3-5)

The bride of Christ begins as we are snatched/raptured/caught up off the earth & taken to our heavenly wedding chamber (the New Jerusalem rev 21). This is the place He goes to prepare for us in (John 14:3)

At this time we will spend 7 yrs (one shmita), with our Bridegroom. While the church/saints arr in their Bridal Chamber with Jesus. The rest of the world will be in a time of great tribulation

Isa 26:20-21
20 "Come my people, enter our (bridal) chambers & shut the door behind you, "hide yourself until the indignation (wrath) is past"

21 Behold the Lord comes to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity While the wrath of God is poured out on the earth.

"Not" on the saints/church their iniquity's were forgiven & nailed to His Cross. The saints/church will be hidden away with their Bridegroom

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days (7 yr period) Jesus will appear in the sky & all the peoples of the earth will mourn, as they see Jesus coming on the clouds of heaven with power & great glory." (MATT 24:29-31)

At this event "The 2nd coming of Christ" " his feet touch down"" on Mt Olive (ZEC 14:4)
("feet touch down") ("NOT" meet Him in the air as found in 1 thes 4:16-17)

On that day His feet will stand on Mt Olive. The Mt will split in 2 from east to west. Then the Lord your God will come, & "all the saints with Him." (Zec 14:5)

"All the saints seen here with Him" (Zec 14:5) are the Raptured - caught-up Church/body of believers

Behold, the Lord "cometh" with 10 thousands of his saints, (Jude 14) THE RAPTURED SAINTS ARE WITH HIM

1 Thessalonians 3:13 (B) """at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints""".

Jews will receive Jesus at His 2nd coming. When "they shall see the one whom they pierced" (John 19:37, Zec 12:10 & Rev 1:7)

The Rapture is "IMMINENT" literally means "hanging over your head" Could happen ANYTIME! Maranatha

EXAMPLES OF GOD SPARING THE RIGHTEOUS FROM COMING WRATH

We see here the church escaping the wrath of the great trib soon to be poured out

The angels couldn’t destroy Sodom and Gomorrah until Lot and his family were clear

Noah and his family were delivered from wrath before the flood came

BELIEVERS ARE DELIVERED FROM JACOBS/ISRAELS TROUBLE AND GODS WRATH TO COME UPON UNBELIEVERS

1 Thes 1:10, And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even """Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come""""

Rom 5:9 being now justified by his blood, """we shall be saved from wrath""" through him

1 thes 5:9 """God hath not appointed us to wrath""", but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ

The Church Is Raptured/Caught-Up To Be Delivered From Wrath coming to a God rebellious world.

The Rapture is "IMMINENT". Imminent literally means "hanging over your head" Could happen ANYTIME! Maranatha

 

[Another Lazarus]

The bride of Christ begins as we are snatched/raptured/caught up off the earth & taken to our heavenly wedding chamber (the New Jerusalem rev 21). This is the place He goes to prepare for us in (John 14:3)

The raptured saints shall be taken to the Great White Throne, not yet to New Jerusalem.
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the Throne and before the Lamb.
14. ....These are they which came out of great Tribulation.......

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days (7 yr period) Jesus will appear in the sky & all the peoples of the earth will mourn, as they see Jesus coming on the clouds of heaven with power & great glory." (MATT 24:29-31)

at the 2nd coming of Christ after 7 years tribulation, there will be no more wise/foolish virgins awaiting Him and there will be no more mourning because the DEVIL AND KINGS OF THE WORLD WILL KNOW WHEN THE DAY COMES as they will be prepared for the Armageddon battle against Christ.

Rev 16 13 Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the *GREAT DAY of God Almighty. *GREAT DAY = 2ND COMING OF CHRIST
Rev 19:19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army.

Rev 19:21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.


Jesus will return from heaven with His raptured saints after the Feast of the Lamb, to battle at Armageddon.


Rev 19:11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war.
12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself.
13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.

JESUS WILL RULE THE NATIONS AFTER ARMAGEDDON BATTLE
Rev 19:15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”

May Jesus bless you all HalleluYAH

 

[Another Lazarus]

The Beast is Islam, not a revived Roman Empire. I think most of the nations that surround Israel today (that is the land areas) were a part of the Eastern leg of the Roman Empire - that is the Byzantine Empire. So perhaps it is considered part of the Roman Empire by God. However, even at its biggest the Roman empire never took in much of Iran. I think you are right on Islam.

there will appear only 4 Beast/kingdom that directly affected the Jews as told by Gabriel


May Jesus bless you all HalleluYAH

 

[iamlamad]

Caught up/snatched/raptured:

1st The Lord Himself arrives unannounced to call out the true church, His Bride. This event (described in 1 Thes 4:16-17 as the rapture - catching-up)

This is different from His visible return in power & glory 7 yrs later. On that day His feet will stand on The Mt Of Olive (Zec 14:3-5)

The bride of Christ begins as we are snatched/raptured/caught up off the earth & taken to our heavenly wedding chamber (the New Jerusalem rev 21). This is the place He goes to prepare for us in (John 14:3)

At this time we will spend 7 yrs (one shmita), with our Bridegroom. While the church/saints arr in their Bridal Chamber with Jesus. The rest of the world will be in a time of great tribulation

Isa 26:20-21
20 "Come my people, enter our (bridal) chambers & shut the door behind you, "hide yourself until the indignation (wrath) is past"

21 Behold the Lord comes to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity While the wrath of God is poured out on the earth.

"Not" on the saints/church their iniquity's were forgiven & nailed to His Cross. The saints/church will be hidden away with their Bridegroom

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days (7 yr period) Jesus will appear in the sky & all the peoples of the earth will mourn, as they see Jesus coming on the clouds of heaven with power & great glory." (MATT 24:29-31)

At this event "The 2nd coming of Christ" " his feet touch down"" on Mt Olive (ZEC 14:4)
("feet touch down") ("NOT" meet Him in the air as found in 1 thes 4:16-17)

On that day His feet will stand on Mt Olive. The Mt will split in 2 from east to west. Then the Lord your God will come, & "all the saints with Him." (Zec 14:5)

"All the saints seen here with Him" (Zec 14:5) are the Raptured - caught-up Church/body of believers

Behold, the Lord "cometh" with 10 thousands of his saints, (Jude 14) THE RAPTURED SAINTS ARE WITH HIM

1 Thessalonians 3:13 (B) """at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints""".

Jews will receive Jesus at His 2nd coming. When "they shall see the one whom they pierced" (John 19:37, Zec 12:10 & Rev 1:7)

The Rapture is "IMMINENT" literally means "hanging over your head" Could happen ANYTIME! Maranatha

EXAMPLES OF GOD SPARING THE RIGHTEOUS FROM COMING WRATH

We see here the church escaping the wrath of the great trib soon to be poured out

The angels couldn’t destroy Sodom and Gomorrah until Lot and his family were clear

Noah and his family were delivered from wrath before the flood came

BELIEVERS ARE DELIVERED FROM JACOBS/ISRAELS TROUBLE AND GODS WRATH TO COME UPON UNBELIEVERS

1 Thes 1:10, And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even """Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come""""

Rom 5:9 being now justified by his blood, """we shall be saved from wrath""" through him

1 thes 5:9 """God hath not appointed us to wrath""", but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ

The Church Is Raptured/Caught-Up To Be Delivered From Wrath coming to a God rebellious world.

The Rapture is "IMMINENT". Imminent literally means "hanging over your head" Could happen ANYTIME! Maranatha

Great post!

 

[AJTruth]

The raptured saints shall be taken to the Great White Throne, not yet to New Jerusalem.
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the Throne and before the Lamb.
14. ....These are they which came out of great Tribulation.......



at the 2nd coming of Christ after 7 years tribulation, there will be no more wise/foolish virgins awaiting Him and there will be no more mourning because the DEVIL AND KINGS OF THE WORLD WILL KNOW WHEN THE DAY COMES as they will be prepared for the Armageddon battle against Christ.

Rev 16 13 Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the *GREAT DAY of God Almighty. *GREAT DAY = 2ND COMING OF CHRIST
Rev 19:19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army.

Rev 19:21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.


Jesus will return from heaven with His raptured saints after the Feast of the Lamb, to battle at Armageddon.


Rev 19:11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war.
12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself.
13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.

JESUS WILL RULE THE NATIONS AFTER ARMAGEDDON BATTLE
Rev 19:15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”

May Jesus bless you all HalleluYAH

The raptured saints shall be taken to the Great White Throne, not yet to New Jerusalem.
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the Throne and before the Lamb.
14. ....These are they which came out of great Tribulation.......

1st
Jude 14,15 Jesus Returns with Ten Thousand of His Saints
Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all,

1 Thessalonians 3:To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, """at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints""".

The Raptured saint are with Him when he returns to execute judgment upon all

2ndly
The raptured Church Believer's/Christians will find themselves and the """Bema Seat""" of Christ (11 Corinthians 5:10). The judgment seat of Christ does not determine salvation; that was determined by Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf (1 John 2:2). And our faith in Him (John 3:16).

All of our sins have been forgiven, nailed to the Cross with Christ. And we will never be condemned for them (Romans 8:1)

Our Sins Removed: As far as the east is from the west, (Psalms 103:12)
The judgment seat of Christ (Bema) is a place of rewards, not punishment.


Jude 14,15 Jesus Returns with Ten Thousand of His Saints
Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all,

1 Thessalonians 3:To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, """at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints""".

The Raptured saint are with Him when he returns to execute judgment upon all

You have this part right:
at the 2nd coming of Christ after 7 years tribulation, there will be no more wise/foolish virgins awaiting Him and there will be no more mourning because the DEVIL AND KINGS OF THE WORLD WILL KNOW WHEN THE DAY COMES as they will be prepared for the Armageddon battle against Christ.

The Church/body of Christ have been with the Lord since the catching-up/rapture

 

[iamlamad]

there will appear only 4 Beast/kingdom that directly affected the Jews as told by Gabriel


May Jesus bless you all HalleluYAH

Take an apple and cut it in half. Each half will represent 1260 days. Eat half of the apple. This will represent the first half of the 70th week. Now put the other have in the refer and keep it until the next day. This time will represent the 2000 years of the church age.

Take the half apple out the next day, to represent the end times. The abomination that divides the week and stops the daily sacrifice will take place. The half apple then must be divided, so cut it in half.

Now, do you have two half apples or do you have two quarter apples?

The point? To divide something and end up with two halves, one MUST HAVE A WHOLE at the time of the division.

Therefore, the ENTIRE WEEK is in front of us. And when the man of sin enters the temple and declares he is God, the daily sacrifices will be stopped, RIGHT THEN. The temple will have to be cleansed before another sacrifice can be done. But the man of sin will turn into the Beast of Rev. 13 and will not allow the temple to be cleansed. When the man of sin enters and the daily sacrifices are stopped, the week is divided into two equal halves. Revelation shows us FIVE TIMES the second half of the week, given in days, in months and in times. Daniel showed us twice given in times.

Revelation shows us both halves of the week, with the midpoint being at the 7th trumpet. The beginning at the 7th seal and the end at the 7th vial. The trumpet judgments are in the first half of the future 70th week.

 

[CuriousWes]

My guess is, you WILL BE left behind. Jesus is coming for those watching for His coming.

So unless we're watching for a pretrib coming we'll be left behind? Is that what you're saying?

 

[iamlamad]

So unless we're watching for a pretrib coming we'll be left behind? Is that what you're saying?

Perhaps you can answer your own question: with your current belief system, can you expect Jesus to come TOMORROW or TONIGHT for His church?

God has told us to watch many times in the New Testament. He is therefore coming for those who are watching for Him - EXPECTING Him. In the parable of the virgins, there were 50% who were prepared because they were expecting Him any time. What happened to those who were not prepared when He came?

 

[CuriousWes]

Perhaps you can answer your own question: with your current belief system, can you expect Jesus to come TOMORROW or TONIGHT for His church?

God has told us to watch many times in the New Testament. He is therefore coming for those who are watching for Him - EXPECTING Him. In the parable of the virgins, there were 50% who were prepared because they were expecting Him any time. What happened to those who were not prepared when He came?

You are sadly mistaken. Jesus is coming for those who belong to Him.

But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming. 1 Corinthians 15:23

"Those who are Christ's" is not determined by their eschatology. You're essentially saying that unless a person watches for a pretrib rapture they don't belong to Christ. People can be watching for His return without His return being imminent. Manipulation is not a fruit of the Spirit.

 

[iamlamad]

You are sadly mistaken. Jesus is coming for those who belong to Him.

But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming. 1 Corinthians 15:23

"Those who are Christ's" is not determined by their eschatology. You're essentially saying that unless a person watches for a pretrib rapture they don't belong to Christ. People can be watching for His return without His return being imminent. Manipulation is not a fruit of the Spirit.

No, I am not saying that at all! If they are born again, they are His. But they STILL may not go up in the rapture.

Let's analyze what you have said. According to the parable of the virgins, only 50% were ready. They ALL had oil to begin with. If the Oil represents the Holy Spirit, which I think it does, that would mean all were born again. Yet, only 50% made it in.

Did you ever read?
Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

What will happen to "those who are Christ's" that lie and don't ask forgiveness?

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

What will happen to "those who are Christ's" that fornicate and don't ask forgiveness?

Matthew 6:15
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

What will happen to "those who are Christ's" that will not forgive?

This is NOT manipulation: it is scripture. These are just a few examples of those "in Christ" who will NOT go in the rapture. And I am convinced there is yet another category: those that are not expecting Him to come. I could be wrong on this, since I have no scripture. I hope I am wrong. However, I think God put those many verses on watching for a purpose.

Matthew 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.