Pre-trib Rapture=any day now! Are you ready to meet Jesus?

[Gismys17]

Luke 21:36 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."
The "catching up" IS the rapture! The rapture is not the same event as the return of Jesus to earth.

• 
  1 Thessalonians 5:9 Translations
  
  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ

But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be """caught up""" together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. 1 THESS.4:13-18

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.(raptured=caught up) For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” 1Corinthians 15:51-54

 

[Ken Rank]

If I had a vote it would be for a pre-trib rapture, but sadly, I don't get a vote. Having held this doctrine for the first few years of my walk, I can understand why folks come to this position. But the bulk of Scripture stands against the idea. If there is a rapture as we teach the event to take place, it is clearly at the end of the tribulation, no question. Thankfully, this isn't a salvation issue so we don't need to agree.

 

[ewq1938]

There is no pre-trib rapture in scripture. It is placed to happen after the resurrection according to Paul and we all know the res. happens at the second coming which happens after the trib has ended.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: (the second coming) and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

It only takes two verses to prove that pre-trib is a false doctrine.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I don't see in the NT that the church is the object of God's wrath on earth. John 16.33 shows the tribulation principle is with us; but Matthew 24 is about the Great Tribulation, which is a unique event, which I don't see the church passing through.

 

[BABerean2]

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ

Rev 11:15　 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"

Rev 11:18　 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."　

.

 

[John Hyperspace]

I don't see in the NT that the church is the object of God's wrath on earth. John 16.33 shows the tribulation principle is with us; but Matthew 24 is about the Great Tribulation, which is a unique event, which I don't see the church passing through.

Why not? It's about as difficult to see as the Israelites passing through the 10 plagues with ease.

 

[John Hyperspace]

If I had a vote it would be for a pre-trib rapture

Ah, not me. If Romans 5:3-4 is true (and we know it is) then I look forward to: knowing that great tribulation worketh great patience; and great patience, great experience; and great experience, great hope:

Crank the fire sevenfold and give me that great tribulation. If the pre-trib rapture is true, they'll have to drag me away shouting and kicking.

 

[Ken Rank]

The wrath is poured out at the end of the tribulation so we can go through it and not be touched by the wrath.

Guys, the tribulation and wrath are NOT the same thing. The tribulation gives the saints of God a common enemy and we'll get over our religious pride and the minutia we all to give us 10's of thousands of denominations and sects will become trivial. In other words... we will unite as one body/bride awaiting the bridegroom.

As for the wrath... when the wrath of God was poured out on the earth with water... who was left behind? The answer is Noach and his family... it was everyone else who was taken. Same with Lot, God instructed him to go to a place of safety and when it was over, Lot was left and everyone in Sodom was gone. These two are likened to the days of the son of man...and if they were given a place of safety while the wrath was poured out and in the end were the ones left standing... then in case of rapture I WANT to be left behind!

 

[Ken Rank]

Ah, not me. If Romans 5:3-4 is true (and we know it is) then I look forward to: knowing that great tribulation worketh great patience; and great patience, great experience; and great experience, great hope:

Crank the fire sevenfold and give me that great tribulation. If the pre-trib rapture is true, they'll have to drag me me away shouting and kicking.

I was half tongue in cheek John. The tribulation does not scare me at all... my trust is in God and if I make it through and see the glorious coming of Yeshua, awesome! If I die before and am resurrected at his coming, then awesome. Either way I will see his coming!

 

[Gismys17]

I was half tongue in cheek John. The tribulation does not scare me at all... my trust is in God and if I make it through and see the glorious coming of Yeshua, awesome! If I die before and am resurrected at his coming, then awesome. Either way I will see his coming!

Yes!! The great tribulation need not scare born again believers as we will not be here ,we will have been caught up (raptured) into heaven before the tribulation as we are not appointed to God's wrath..

Luke 21:36 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."
The "catching up" IS the rapture! The rapture is not the same event as the return of Jesus to earth.

• 
  1 Thessalonians 5:9
  
  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ

But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be """caught up""" together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. 1 THESS.4:13-18

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.(raptured=caught up) For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” 1Corinthians 15:51-54

 

[BABerean2]

Yes!! The great tribulation need not scare born again believers as we will not be here ,we will have been caught up (raptured) into heaven before the tribulation as we are not appointed to God's wrath..

This whole idea is based on several false assumptions.

1. That the Greek words for "wrath" and "tribulation", are the same word. They are not.

2. That God is going to save our Flesh. He is going to save our soul, through our faith in Christ. All of the Apostles but John were murdered for our faith.

3. That God is going to go back and deal with the modern State of Israel under the now "obsolete" (Hebrews 8:13) Old Covenant system, during a future time period of 7 years.
This idea must completely ignore the New Covenant promised to Israel ad Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13 and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:18-24. The New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20. We find those under the Blood of the Lamb in Revelation 12:11. A person cannot be under the Blood of the Lamb and not be under the Grace of the New Covenant. The 144,000 are described as "firstfruits" of the Lamb. Paul uses the same language to describe Christians in Romans 16:5. The Capital "C" Church as we use the word today is not found at all in the Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found.

4. That some have changed the word "so", which is an adverb of manner, into the word "then", which is an adverb of timing in Romans 11:26, in order to produce a future time of "national salvation" for the modern State of Israel. They have also changed the New Covenant confirmed for all races of people in Romans 11:27, into a covenant to be fulfilled in the future.

The Bible notes named after the crooked lawyer from Kansas, have been very successful.
Many of those sitting in the pews have no idea where their doctrine came from.
Others know and do not want it revealed.

Charles Spurgeon was one of the most famous Baptist preachers in history. He spoke directly against this doctrine.

.

 

[Gismys17]

No worries about Israel as God chosen people are His eternal chosen people and all will soon be saved!!! PTL. Romans 11:25-36==
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26And so """all Israel shall be saved""": as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

33O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

35Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

 

[BABerean2]

No worries about Israel as God chosen people are His eternal chosen people and all will soon be saved!!! PTL. Romans 11:25-36==
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26And so """all Israel shall be saved""": as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

33O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

35Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

It sounds like somebody has a Scofield Reference Bible...

 

[iamlamad]

There is no pre-trib rapture in scripture. It is placed to happen after the resurrection according to Paul and we all know the res. happens at the second coming which happens after the trib has ended.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: (the second coming) and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

It only takes two verses to prove that pre-trib is a false doctrine.

Ha! It only takes ONE to prove Postrib is false!

 

[iamlamad]

The wrath is poured out at the end of the tribulation so we can go through it and not be touched by the wrath.

Guys, the tribulation and wrath are NOT the same thing. The tribulation gives the saints of God a common enemy and we'll get over our religious pride and the minutia we all to give us 10's of thousands of denominations and sects will become trivial. In other words... we will unite as one body/bride awaiting the bridegroom.

As for the wrath... when the wrath of God was poured out on the earth with water... who was left behind? The answer is Noach and his family... it was everyone else who was taken. Same with Lot, God instructed him to go to a place of safety and when it was over, Lot was left and everyone in Sodom was gone. These two are likened to the days of the son of man...and if they were given a place of safety while the wrath was poured out and in the end were the ones left standing... then in case of rapture I WANT to be left behind!

How interesting: you say His wrath is poured out at the end of the tribulation; but John tells us the day of His wrath starts at the 6th seal! This is before John has even started the 70th week - much less arrived at the midpoint!

My guess is, you WILL BE left behind. Jesus is coming for those watching for His coming. But in the case of the pretrib rapture, being left behind is the worst thing that could happen. From that point on, the ONLY way into heaven is to refuse the mark and lose your head.

 

[iamlamad]

Ah, not me. If Romans 5:3-4 is true (and we know it is) then I look forward to: knowing that great tribulation worketh great patience; and great patience, great experience; and great experience, great hope:

Crank the fire sevenfold and give me that great tribulation. If the pre-trib rapture is true, they'll have to drag me away shouting and kicking.

Hmmm. So if "tribulation works patience" then "great tribulation" works great patience? Is this how it works?

I rather think that the days of great tribulation will bring a whole lot of beheadings and sorrow. In Rev. 15 we see the first people beheading showing up in heaven. They got there, but how much better to have been ready when Jesus came for His church?

 

[John Hyperspace]

Hmmm. So if "tribulation works patience" then "great tribulation" works great patience? Is this how it works?

I should think so.

I rather think that the days of great tribulation will bring a whole lot of beheadings and sorrow.

Then I'm looking forward to sorrow and my neck to be on the chopping block. As far as I'm concerned there are two kind of Christian: the ones who are not afraid, and joy in suffering for Christ; and the ones who are and don't. Of the ones who are, all I would ask is Mark 4:40 : But then it's written Judges 7:3 so I suppose it's a win-win scenario.

In Rev. 15 we see the first people beheading showing up in heaven. They got there, but how much better to have been ready when Jesus came for His church?

It would be way better to endure great tribulation than to not endure it. Missing out on the great tribulation would be like missing out on the greatest spiritual work-out of all time. I propose you're not quite understanding the true purpose of tribulation. If you understood the purpose of tribulation (let alone great tribulation) you'd be perceiving it differently.

 

[Gismys17]

Jesus says==
Luke 21:36
36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass.

Why be left behind?? Go up the Rapture.

 

[iamlamad]

I should think so.



Then I'm looking forward to sorrow and my neck to be on the chopping block. As far as I'm concerned there are two kind of Christian: the ones who are not afraid, and joy in suffering for Christ; and the ones who are and don't. Of the ones who are, all I would ask is Mark 4:40 : But then it's written Judges 7:3 so I suppose it's a win-win scenario.



It would be way better to endure great tribulation than to not endure it. Missing out on the great tribulation would be like missing out on the greatest spiritual work-out of all time. I propose you're not quite understanding the true purpose of tribulation. If you understood the purpose of tribulation (let alone great tribulation) you'd be perceiving it differently.

The best thing is to be in the perfect will of God. We find that in this verse:

Luke 21:36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

I choose to be ready when Jesus comes for His bride, to escape what is coming. If you choose to be left behind, I think God will allow you to be left behind.

In other words, I choose to enter heaven as shown in the great crowd too large to number: the raptured church as shown in Rev. 7 - NOT as a beheaded saint as shown in Rev. 15.

 

[John Hyperspace]

The best thing is to be in the perfect will of God. We find that in this verse:

Luke 21:36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

I choose to be ready when Jesus comes for His bride, to escape what is coming. If you choose to be left behind, I think God will allow you to be left behind.

In other words, I choose to enter heaven as shown in the great crowd too large to number: the raptured church as shown in Rev. 7 - NOT as a beheaded saint as shown in Rev. 15.

I don't believe you're going to have a choice. I believe you're looking for a "coming before the coming" which isn't going to come. I hope you are prepared for that contingency; that you're not going anywhere, but are either going to endure and stand, or, wither and fall.

Revelation 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Paul gives the answer to that question, and is giving us some good advice; it doesn't look like we're going anywhere, but are going to be right here "in the evil day"

Ephesians 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.