Pre-trib Rapture=any day now! Are you ready to meet Jesus?

[Gismys17]

Those that want to be left behind on rapture day can pray that God will allow them to have their wish!!!
1 Thess 4:13
13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death,so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

 

[BABerean2]

The apostles all believed and taught the pre-trib rapture position. Thus such early church fathers like Irenaeus spoke of and preached it. In contrast there are no early church fathers who believed, spoke or taught the post-trib rapture position.

Your claim above could not be more wrong, based on the writings of the early Church Fathers found below.

Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf


Author Tim LaHaye’s fictional books and movies known as the “Left Behind” series have convinced millions of modern Christians that the Pretrib doctrine is scriptural.
Look at his quote below and consider carefully which viewpoint is the oldest, based on his words.

"It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view."

Tim LaHaye, "Rapture Under Attack", page 197, Multnomath Publishers, Inc., 1998

I have a copy of the book above and have read this quote with mine own eyes.

.

 

[keras]

Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner

I have a copy of Tim Warners expose of Grant Jeffrey.
It makes shocking reading: how Jeffery has taken pieces of the ECF writings and forced his pre-trib doctrine onto them.
'Jeffery is a liar and writes the most blatant pre-trib revisionism seen'. Quote Warner.
He is obviously preaching to an audience that agrees with him and who lack the motivation and probably the intelligence to check on his outlandish claims.

 

[Jezmeyah]

Your claim above could not be more wrong, based on the writings of the early Church Fathers found below.

Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf


Author Tim LaHaye’s fictional books and movies known as the “Left Behind” series have convinced millions of modern Christians that the Pretrib doctrine is scriptural.
Look at his quote below and consider carefully which viewpoint is the oldest, based on his words.

"It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view."

Tim LaHaye, "Rapture Under Attack", page 197, Multnomath Publishers, Inc., 1998

I have a copy of the book above and have read this quote with mine own eyes.

.

I am not surprised that you have said that I am wrong. As I wrote that you would have that opinion in the beginning of my post to you. So your saying it in this post to me was rather redundant.

It seems odd that you would use contemporary Bible teachers that, I do add, I have not consulted regarding the pre-trib rapture,.. while my post has no other topic references than the Bible itself.

Except for the minor mention of Irenaeus, the discussion I've posted is concerning what the Bible says and not loaded down with what someone taught that it said, as your post to me has in it.

If you thought that I relied heavily on such as them, and mentioning them would be hitting a target, your calculation was wrong.

If in the course of my posts I should consult a Biblical teacher, then I would mention them. As you will read my lengthy post to you, the content proves to be majority scripture.

I think this ends our exchange.

 

[Dave Watchman]

The sign in the heavens in Matt. 24:30 is what we are supposed to look for. The wars, rumors or wars, famines, earthquakes, pestilence has and is happening in increased frequency. The other key is found in Matt. 24:14, when Jesus tells us when it will happen: And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world, then the end will come. It has been. You can keep going and since babies are born every minute, there's no end to that but it has been - and don't worry about the babies that didn't hear.

The sign we are to look for may very well be Rev. 12:1, "... a woman clothed with the sun and the moon at her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head." Symbolically this means Israel and further and then the next couple verses descried a child, Jesus. But we are to also take this literally. In Genesis, it says the sun, moon and stars are for times, seasons and signs.

The Jews used the stars in the OT. The wise men follow a star to find where Jesus was born.
Virgo (the virgin) will appear on 9-23-2017 clothed with the sun and the moon at her feet with the constellation Leo (9 stars) plus Venus, Mars and Mercury crowning her head. This very unique sign has not appeared for over 2000 years. Then it appeared on Sept. 11, 3 B.C.E which may be His birth. Just prior to this event, Jupiter (referred to as the KING planet), moved in the heavens towards Virgo, entered Virgo's womb and circled around inside for 9 months then moved out between her legs.

If there is any sign more obvious than that, let me know. It's very possible that this was the star that the wise men followed.

Back to 9-23-2017. This event happens during the Feast of the Trumpets which lasts 10 days. And also by the way, add 70 years to 1948, when Israel became a nation and you'll get 2018. This is the generation, if it isn't, after 20 years of studying eschatology, I give up.

This is the generation, if it isn't, after 20 years of studying eschatology, I give up.

Yes this all looks fine. We feast on a banquet of consequences trumpets.

Probably all that we ever needed was 1948+70, but there was so much erroneous doctrine that got in the way.

I once thought that I found Matthew 24:29.

When I count the days from the day that Jupiter enters into the body of Virgo, until the darkened sun, I get 777 days. Triple sevens.

When I count the days from the event that I think was the abomination of desolation, until the darkened sun, I get 1290 days.

When I count the days from the day that Jupiter exits the body of Virgo and is then joined in conjunction with Venus, until the darkened sun, I get 420 days. 420 days is a "third" of 1260.

I think that what we're watching for will come about a couple of months after the first signs fulfillment. I also think that when it all begins, the final events will be rapid ones.

Is Revelation telling us that there are TWO signs that will appear in heaven? Will there be a "great sign" followed by "another sign" appearing in heaven?

1And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars..

3And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems.
​

Where shall I be when the first trumpet sound?
Oh, where shall I be when it sound so loud?
Sound so loud, till it wakes up the dead
Oh, where shall I be when it sound?

One of these mornings, four o-clock,
Where shall I be?
This old world is gonna reel and rock,
Where shall I be?

Oh, where shall I be when the first trumpet sound?
Oh, where shall I be when it sound so loud?
Sound so loud, till it wakes up the dead
Oh, where shall I be when it sound?

One of these mornings, bright and fair,
Where shall I be?
Gonna hitch on my wings and fly the air,
Where shall I be?

Oh, where shall I be when the first trumpet sound?
Oh, where shall I be when it sound so loud?
Sound so loud, till it wakes up the dead
Oh, where shall I be when it sound?

If I could, I surely would,
Where shall I be?
Stand on the rock where Moses stood,
Where shall I be?

Oh, where shall I be when the first trumpet sound?
Oh, where shall I be when it sound so loud?
Sound so loud, till it wakes up the dead
Oh, where shall I be when it sound?

Where Shall I be When The First Trumpet Sounds-Rev. Edward W. Clayborn
Spanish tuning, with a slide

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[BABerean2]

I think this ends our exchange.

Reality is often a tough thing to face.

When one makes a bold statement about the early Church Fathers and then finds our statement to be based upon an illusion, what are our options?

Do we admit we were wrong or break off the conversation?


Most proponents of the Pretrib doctrine do not understand the reason it is needed to make modern Dispensational Theology work.

Dispensationalists need to remove the Church from the planet so that God can go back and deal with the modern nation of Israel under the Old Covenant system. They claim the age of Grace or the "Church Age" comes to an end 7 years before the Second Coming of Christ.

Major problems with this whole idea are found below.

Those who ignore the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 will continue to be in error. Christ said in Matthew 26:28 that He would fulfill this covenant in His Blood. It is found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13 and in verse 13 we find that the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete". It is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:18-24 and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8. It is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20. The New Covenant was promised to Israel and Judah. On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "men of Judea", then as "men of Israel" and in Acts 2:36 as "all the house of Israel". On that day about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised to Jeremiah. Therefore, the Church and Israel cannot be separated. The ultimate fulfillment of Israel is Christ.

If you look in the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America, you will find that the covenant with the many in Daniel 9:27 is the same covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28. Dispensationalists have created a time machine by changing a covenant confirmed by Christ into a treaty broken by an antichrist not mentioned by the angel Gabriel, by adding a "gap" of time not mentioned by the angel. It also ignores any time that the Gospel was taken to Daniel's people during the first century, even though Christ clearly commanded that the Gospel was to be taken "first" to the Israelites. It was not taken to the Gentiles until after Stephen reviewed the whole history of Israel and was then stoned to death. God ripped the temple veil in half on the day of Calvary. If God ripped the veil, who is going to repair it? Yet Dispensationalists claim God is going to deal with the modern nation of Israel under the now "obsolete" Old Covenant during a future time period of 7 years when they will go back to keeping the Sinai covenant. They claim the Age of Grace ends even though the New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20. They ignore those under the Blood of the Lamb in Revelation 12:11. A person cannot be under the Blood of the Lamb and not be under the Grace of the New Covenant. The 144,000 are described as "firstfruits" of the Lamb. Paul uses the same term to describe Christians in Romans 16:5.

The Olive Tree of Romans 11 is a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of Israelites and Gentiles grafted together into one tree. Paul says that the branches broken off can be grafted back into the tree through faith in Christ. Paul provides no other path of salvation. Dispensationalists have changed the word "so", which is an adverb of manner, into the word "then", which is an adverb of timing, in Romans 11:26. In verse 27 they have taken the New Covenant fulfilled at Calvary for all races of people and have converted it into a covenant to be fulfilled in the future.

You will almost never hear a sermon on the New Covenant in a Dispensational church, because the New Covenant destroys the doctrine. If you want to see the origin of the doctrine, watch the YouTube video "Genesis of Dispensational Theology".

The “suffering servant” of Isaiah chapter 53, and the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 prove that the baby born in a manger in Bethlehem was and is the Jewish New Covenant Messiah promised in the Old Testament. The time to share the Gospel with the Jewish people is now.


Jewish Man finds the New Covenant in his Jewish Bible.

 

[Dave Watchman]

I am not surprised that you have said that I am wrong.

Your claim above could not be more wrong, based on the writings of the early Church Fathers found below.

If you thought that I relied heavily on such as them, and mentioning them would be hitting a target, your calculation was wrong.

Dispensationalists need to remove

So your saying it in this post to me was rather redundant.

Reality is often a tough thing to face.

Therefore comfort one another with these words.​

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[Gismys17]

The "catching up" is the rapture.

1 Thess 4:13
13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be """caught up""" together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Gismys17]

The church is here till the day of Christ....therefore
....the great tribulation ends before the rapture begins.

There is no scripture for that wrong idea!!!

 

[Ronald]

The signs you are posting about are the signs to look for just before the return of Jesus to earth destroy evil and set up His kingdom here but the rapture(catching up) of believers comes aprox seven years before His return.

I am not an adherent of the Pre-Trib view. I am a Mid-Trib/ Pre-Wrath adherent. I believe the 7th trumpet is the last and so we must endure the first six - hour ever long that may take. I know, the seventieth week of Daniel is popular, but I think that prophecy referring to His First Coming as it clearly states. There's no gap. I don't see 7 years anywhere in Revelation, I see 3 1/2 years. I see one coming in the clouds not two.
However, the Feast of Trumpets lasts ten days. So if they are blown rapidly and then the events follow and accumulate/overlap which is what I think they do, then we might not be around for much devastation. I think the trumpets are the last warnings before the bowls which contain the wrath of God -- my take on it ... just one of many views out there.

 

[Ronald]

Yes this all looks fine. We feast on a banquet of consequences trumpets.

Probably all that we ever needed was 1948+70, but there was so much erroneous doctrine that got in the way.

I once thought that I found Matthew 24:29.

When I count the days from the day that Jupiter enters into the body of Virgo, until the darkened sun, I get 777 days. Triple sevens.

When I count the days from the event that I think was the abomination of desolation, until the darkened sun, I get 1290 days.

When I count the days from the day that Jupiter exits the body of Virgo and is then joined in conjunction with Venus, until the darkened sun, I get 420 days. 420 days is a "third" of 1260.

I think that what we're watching for will come about a couple of months after the first signs fulfillment. I also think that when it all begins, the final events will be rapid ones.

Is Revelation telling us that there are TWO signs that will appear in heaven? Will there be a "great sign" followed by "another sign" appearing in heaven?

1And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars..

3And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems.
​

Where shall I be when the first trumpet sound?
Oh, where shall I be when it sound so loud?
Sound so loud, till it wakes up the dead
Oh, where shall I be when it sound?

One of these mornings, four o-clock,
Where shall I be?
This old world is gonna reel and rock,
Where shall I be?

Oh, where shall I be when the first trumpet sound?
Oh, where shall I be when it sound so loud?
Sound so loud, till it wakes up the dead
Oh, where shall I be when it sound?

One of these mornings, bright and fair,
Where shall I be?
Gonna hitch on my wings and fly the air,
Where shall I be?

Oh, where shall I be when the first trumpet sound?
Oh, where shall I be when it sound so loud?
Sound so loud, till it wakes up the dead
Oh, where shall I be when it sound?

If I could, I surely would,
Where shall I be?
Stand on the rock where Moses stood,
Where shall I be?

Oh, where shall I be when the first trumpet sound?
Oh, where shall I be when it sound so loud?
Sound so loud, till it wakes up the dead
Oh, where shall I be when it sound?

Where Shall I be When The First Trumpet Sounds-Rev. Edward W. Clayborn
Spanish tuning, with a slide

Peaceful Sabbath.

Thanks for the unifying message. I enjoyed the music by the Rev. Clayborn. He knew 90 years ago.

 

[BABerean2]

I am not an adherent of the Pre-Trib view. I am a Mid-Trib/ Pre-Wrath adherent. I believe the 7th trumpet is the last and so we must endure the first six - hour ever long that may take. I know, the seventieth week of Daniel is popular, but I think that prophecy referring to His First Coming as it clearly states. There's no gap. I don't see 7 years anywhere in Revelation, I see 3 1/2 years. I see one coming in the clouds not two.
However, the Feast of Trumpets lasts ten days. So if they are blown rapidly and then the events follow and accumulate/overlap which is what I think they do, then we might not be around for much devastation. I think the trumpets are the last warnings before the bowls which contain the wrath of God -- my take on it ... just one of many views out there.

Ronald,

I most certainly agree with almost everything you said above.
However, it looks like you are not really "Mid-Trib", based on what you just said.

If the 7th trump is the last trump and then we have the judgment of the dead at Revelation 11:18, then that is the end of the story.

Revelation chapter 12 begins with a review of Church history, which includes the birth and death of Christ.

This means the book is really a series of overlapping visions, which are not in a chronological order.

We have those hiding from the Lamb at the end of chapter 6.

Then we have the last trump and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 11.

We have the "harvest" of chapter 14.

We have Christ coming as a thief at Armageddon in Revelation 16:15-16.

We have another return of Christ in chapter 19.

There is no way to make all of these fit into a perfect chronological sequence.
.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

The signs you are posting about are the signs to look for just before the return of Jesus to earth destroy evil and set up His kingdom here but the rapture(catching up) of believers comes aprox seven years before His return.

According to the Jesuit priest Ribera

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Virgo (the virgin) will appear on 9-23-2017 clothed with the sun and the moon at her feet with the constellation Leo (9 stars) plus Venus, Mars and Mercury crowning her head. This very unique sign has not appeared for over 2000 years. Then it appeared on Sept. 11, 3 B.C.E which may be His birth. Just prior to this event, Jupiter (referred to as the KING planet), moved in the heavens towards Virgo, entered Virgo's womb and circled around inside for 9 months then moved out between her legs. If there is any sign more obvious than that, let me know. It's very possible that this was the star that the wise men followed.

Daniel 2:27
Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, shew unto the king;

Your statements above seem to fall into the astrologers classification. This interpretation of scripture is a fantastic deception of Bible interpretation IMHO

In Bible prophecy, God's church is symbolized by a pure woman (Jeremiah 6:2). In Revelation 12, this woman is clothed with the sun, moon, and stars--the natural light of God's creation. Jesus told the church, "Ye are the light of the world." Matthew 5:14. The sun represents the light of Jesus (Psalms 84:11; Malachi 4:2). The moon under her feet represents the types and shadows of the Old Testament sacrificial system. As the moon reflects the light of the sun, so the sacrificial system was helpful because it reflected the light of the Messiah to come (Colossians 2:16, 17; Hebrews 10:1). The 12 stars above her head symbolize the leadership of the

church--12 tribes in the Old Testament and 12 apostles in the New Testament. The one who is to rule all nations with a rod of iron is Jesus (Psalms 2:7-9; Revelation 19:13-16).
A Tale of Two Women | Storacle Lessons | Amazing Facts

 

[Original Happy Camper]

There is the Biblical promise for believers to escape the period of the Tribulation.

The Hebrews went through the last seven plagues of Egypt they escaped the troubles. So shall it be for the true believers in Jesus Christ during the tribulation as he will protect us. That is how we escape the effects of the plagues. History repeats itself.

By the way probation closes when Micheal stands up, so during the tribulation, there is no changing of the choices of who we worship.

 

[Gismys17]

Jesus loves His church (bride) and we will be caught up (raptured) before His judgment comes upon this evil world!!

The "catching up" is the rapture.

1 Thess 4:13
13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be """caught up""" together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

 

[Jezmeyah]

The Hebrews went through the last seven plagues of Egypt they escaped the troubles. So shall it be for the true believers in Jesus Christ during the tribulation as he will protect us. That is how we escape the effects of the plagues. History repeats itself.

By the way probation closes when Micheal stands up, so during the tribulation, there is no changing of the choices of who we worship.

What is that?.. probation closing?.. what does that have to do with Christians who are sealed in and by the Holy Spirit, having been saved by the word of God that abides forever.. those who have everlasting hope .. and of His love shall not be separated from Him?

Wait, I had begun to state the post-trib theology.. but I stopped myself from preaching it.

Suffice it to say that the post-trib theological threat of losing one's faith in God, has nothing to with Christians who are not moved away from the hope of the gospel, and so having eternal security in and through the ever protective Christ and the ever faithful God.

It has nothing to do with believers who understand such pre-trib rapture verses as the following,

Isaiah 26:20 says, "Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast."

So, from the balconies of heaven, the pre-tribbers shall observe as the arch angel warrior protector of Israel- Michael indeed stands up and the 7 year Tribulation commences.

The post-tribbers by evidence of using an OT verse that is entirely addressed to the Jews. No gentiles mentioned to give anyone the idea that it applies to NT gentile Christians.

But, because of wrong teachings within the post-tribber doctrinal theological ranks, they have wrongly identified themselves with the Jews in being those who will be on the earth during the 7 year Tribulation.

In their insistence of this doctrine, they also identify themselves with the Tribulation saints who get saved as a result of witnessing the pre-trib rapture of all Christians according to 1 Thes.4:13-18.

However, in response to the post-tribber's erroneous use of OT scriptures, there is a promise in the new testament that overrides the old testament example that you give. In Rev.3 spoken to new testament believers of the Philadelphian church that they will not experience the testing that those on the earth at that time will experience.
Why? Because the body of Christ will escape it.. They who during the church age of grace, restrain the lawless anti-christ until they are taken out of the way.. by method of the pre-trib rapture. And only then afterward shall the lawless one come.

Did you ever think of yourself as being the reason why the lawless anti-christ can't come? Apparently not, but never the less.. every Christian believer is.
Because you are of the age of grace. Not of the age of Moses. And, the anti-christ is of the Tribulation age. His arrival sets that age in motion. Just as Jesus' Second Coming sets the Millennium age in motion.

So, using the history of the Jews who lived in that age, as a reason why post-tribbers must live through the Tribulation, is a violation of the inspired word of God that the new testament scriptures taught concerning what "group" is "where" at "what time".

 

[Original Happy Camper]

What is that?.. probation closing?.. what does that have to do with Christians who are sealed in and by the Holy Spirit, having been saved by the word of God that abides forever.. those who have everlasting hope .. and of His love shall not be separated from Him?

Wait, I had begun to state the post-trib theology.. but I stopped myself from preaching it.

Suffice it to say that the post-trib theological threat of losing one's faith in God, has nothing to with Christians who are not moved away from the hope of the gospel, and so having eternal security in and through the ever protective Christ and the ever faithful God.

It has nothing to do with believers who understand such pre-trib rapture verses as the following,

Isaiah 26:20 says, "Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast."

So, from the balconies of heaven, the pre-tribbers shall observe as the arch angel warrior protector of Israel- Michael indeed stands up and the 7 year Tribulation commences.

The post-tribbers by evidence of using an OT verse that is entirely addressed to the Jews. No gentiles mentioned to give anyone the idea that it applies to NT gentile Christians.

But, because of wrong teachings within the post-tribber doctrinal theological ranks, they have wrongly identified themselves with the Jews in being those who will be on the earth during the 7 year Tribulation.

In their insistence of this doctrine, they also identify themselves with the Tribulation saints who get saved as a result of witnessing the pre-trib rapture of all Christians according to 1 Thes.4:13-18.

However, in response to the post-tribber's erroneous use of OT scriptures, there is a promise in the new testament that overrides the old testament example that you give. In Rev.3 spoken to new testament believers of the Philadelphian church that they will not experience the testing that those on the earth at that time will experience.
Why? Because the body of Christ will escape it.. They who during the church age of grace, restrain the lawless anti-christ until they are taken out of the way.. by method of the pre-trib rapture. And only then afterward shall the lawless one come.

Did you ever think of yourself as being the reason why the lawless anti-christ can't come? Apparently not, but never the less.. every Christian believer is.
Because you are of the age of grace. Not of the age of Moses. And, the anti-christ is of the Tribulation age. His arrival sets that age in motion. Just as Jesus' Second Coming sets the Millennium age in motion.

So, using the history of the Jews who lived in that age, as a reason why post-tribbers must live through the Tribulation, is a violation of the inspired word of God that the new testament scriptures taught concerning what "group" is "where" at "what time".

Lets agree to disagree as I see prophecy from the Historical view. You appear to be a believer in the theory put forth by the Jesuit Priest Ribera

Read this if you want to see where your beliefs originated IMHO
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Here is another one to r

But, because of wrong teachings within the post-tribber doctrinal theological ranks, they have wrongly identified themselves with the Jews in being those who will be on the earth during the 7 year Tribulation.

You may want to read this one
Left Behind by the Jesuits - Scriptures Prove Secret Pre-tribulation Rapture is Anti-biblical