Pre-Trib Belief If Post Is Correct/Problems?

[Big Mouth Nana]

This whole argument is very simply resolved
#1 The Bible says Jesus returns after the Tribulation.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.

#2 The bible says the rapture is at the coming of the Lord.
1st Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord.

Those two truths = a third truth, the rapture itself is also after the Tribulation.

Let me explain it to you as if you are a kindergartener if #1 the 2nd coming is after the tribulation and #2 the Rapture is at this 2nd coming then #3 the rapture has to be after the tribulation not b4 it

Can't get any plainer then that I am becoming more convinced why I started this topic in the first place. I think a difference in people during the tribulation is going to be profound!! When people can't see something as plain as what scripture plainly shows especially in Matt 24, how can these folks get through for 3.5 years? It is like they are as blind as the Jews at this point. I have always heard that Satan likes to copy God, so maybe since God blinded the Jews, Satan blinded the church....which I know he did. Hopefully when the fulness of the Gentiles comes in and the remnant know their Messiah, maybe the church will wake up....even though it might come all the way up to refusing or taking the mark to register..OH yeah, I see it now

 

[Ghost air]

Oh, that is why when you first came on here you were asking all kinds of questions. Excuse me, I didn't know that you had finally arrived. Most readers of the Word have changed their minds probably more then once when studying the bible. I sure have.

And yet you'll accuse those who do not see the scriptures in the exact same light as you do as lacking spiritual discernment.

At least I have enough discernment and understanding to know that we don't leave this earth until after the tribulation .

So there's no possible way that you could be wrong Nana ? Is it even remotely possible that the Matthew 24 scripture which you say is so plain, doesn't even refer to the church of God, but rather the remnan of Israel who is taken through the great tribualtion ?

OR are you completely beyond being incorrect in this matter ?

Revelation 12 makes it very clear imo Israel is taken through thr tribulation for 3.5 years. Matthew 24 pertains to Israel.

Like I stated before, when the last and 7th angel begins to sound the trumpet in Rev 10:7, the resurrection and catching away are beginning. When the last angel sounds the trumpet in Rev 11:15, it's a done deal. Like I said, it's the Day of the Lord, a one day event. From Rev 10:7 thru Rev 11:15 is the coming of Christ to get the saints. The wrath doesn't begin until Rev 11:18. In Rev 19, we are coming back to fight the beast and his armies. It's all the same time frame from Rev 10 thru 19 when the beast and false prophet are finally thrown in the lake of fire. When we are fighting the beast armies in Rev 19, that is still part of the wrath..the end of it. We don't go through the bowls of wrath since we are out of here in Rev 11:15 totally, in the air waiting to come back down and fight in Rev 19.

OK, so now the church is up in the air from Rev 10 until the Lord meets them in Rev 19 ? Tell me your kidding ?

Rev 9 speaks of locusts coming out of the earth and stinging men for 5 months and that they couldn't die. So what, is the church up in the air for 5 months waiting for this ?

 

[onwingsaseagles]

OK, so now the church is up in the air from Rev 10 until the Lord meets them in Rev 19 ? Tell me your kidding ?

I think a better question is what in the world you read in Rev 10 to make you think the church is in the air?

Rev 9 speaks of locusts coming out of the earth and stinging men for 5 months and that they couldn't die. So what, is the church up in the air for 5 months waiting for this ?

The church will be on the earth at this time being divinely protected by God. Keep reading you might figure it out one day, I hope so at least.

Remember If you don't want to hear the truth you never will.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

This whole argument is very simply resolved
#1 The Bible says Jesus returns after the Tribulation.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.

#2 The bible says the rapture is at the coming of the Lord.
1st Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord.

Those two truths = a third truth, the rapture itself is also after the Tribulation.

Let me explain it to you as if you are a kindergartener if #1 the 2nd coming is after the tribulation and #2 the Rapture is at this 2nd coming then #3 the rapture has to be after the tribulation not b4 it

Seriously, use scriptures to define "the tribulation" and use scriptures to define "judgment and wrath". They are most definitely different.

Furthermore, you seem to think that the wrath is just the bowls or that the wrath is when Christ destroys the evil when He's physically returning.

THAT IS NOT TRUE. The judgment and wrath of God BEGIN when the sun/moon darken and continue for seven years and THEN Christ physically returns.

Judgment and wrath are poured out BEFORE Christ physically returns BUT WE were told that we are not appointed to suffer wrath THEREFORE, we are removed before the sun/moon darken which is the beginning of judgment and wrath.

1. Tribulation (Biblically, 2000 years long - Rev 7/Exodus 19:10-20) - Seals 1-4
2. Rapture (Seal #5)
3. Sun/moon darken (Rev 6, seal #6, actually says this is when wrath begins, backed up by Joel 2)
4. Outpouring of judgment and wrath on the entire earth in the form of trumpet judgments, the beasts, and the bowls for seven years. (seal #7)
5. Christ physically returns.

 

[Ghost air]

I think a better question is what in the world you read in Rev 10 to make you think the church is in the air?

You might want to ask Nana, she is the one who came up with that.

Remember If you don't want to hear the truth you never will.

The irony here is that I typically never learn anything of value from the folks who think that they know it all and who couldn't possibly be wrong.

With your attitude, good luck trying to find anyone who will even have a conversation with you. I only responded to this post because you attributed me to saying something that came from Nana. I know that it sounded ridiculous, but it came from a post trib believer, not from me.

 

[onwingsaseagles]

You might want to ask Nana, she is the one who came up with that.



The irony here is that I typically never learn anything of value from the folks who think that they know it all and who couldn't possibly be wrong.

With your attitude, good luck trying to find anyone who will even have a conversation with you. I only responded to this post because you attributed me to saying something that came from Nana. I know that it sounded ridiculous, but it came from a post trib believer, not from me.

#1 I do not know it all, but I do know what the Bible says on when Jesus will return.

#2 I read Rev 10 and did not see any rapture in it whether that view came from you or a ''posttribber''. I do not agree with everything any posttribber might write, but I do know that the Bible clearly states the 2nd coming is after the trib and thatthe rapture is at the 2nd coming.

You are a pretribber and so is Jen, do you believe the tribulation is the 2,000 years between Christ's death and His return? Of course not no one would , but Jen does. You see just because 2 people are posttrib or pretrib does not mean they have to agree on everything.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

You are a pretribber and so is Jen, do you believe the tribulation is the 2,000 years between Christ's death and His return? Of course not no one would , but Jen does. You see just because 2 people are posttrib or pretrib does not mean they have to agree on everything.

I can prove it with Scriptures in more than one way!

#1


Rev 7:13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes–who are they, and where did they come from?”
Rev 7:14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.



The white robed individuals are the bride. "Fine linen, clean and white was given her to wear" (Rev 19) and it happens in the 5th seal.

How long have people been able to be made clean by the blood of the Lamb? ...oh, about 2000 years though belief and acceptance of Jesus!

What does this mean...the washing of robes? It is from this passage which has the rapture written all over it:



Exd 19:10 And the Lord said to Moses, “Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow (2 days = 2000 years). Have them wash their clothes
Exd 19:11 and be ready by the third day (millennium), because on that day the Lord will come down on Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people.
Exd 19:12 Put limits for the people around the mountain and tell them, ‘Be careful that you do not go up the mountain or touch the foot of it. Whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death.
Exd 19:13 He shall surely be stoned or shot with arrows; not a hand is to be laid on him. Whether man or animal, he shall not be permitted to live.’ Only when the ram's horn sounds a long blast may they go up to the mountain.” (aren't we expecting Jesus to appear at the sound of a Jubilee (trumpet) as described here?)
Exd 19:14 After Moses (symbolic of Jesus)had gone down the mountain to the people, he consecrated them, and they washed their clothes.
Exd 19:15 Then he said to the people, “Prepare yourselves for the third day. Abstain from sexual relations.”
Exd 19:16 On the morning of the third day there was thunder and lightning, with a thick cloud over the mountain, and a very loud trumpet blast. Everyone in the camp trembled.
Exd 19:17 Then Moses led the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain.
Exd 19:18 Mount Sinai was covered with smoke, because the Lord descended on it in fire. The smoke billowed up from it like smoke from a furnace, the whole mountain trembled violently,
Exd 19:19 and the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder. Then Moses spoke and the voice of God answered him.
Exd 19:20 The Lord descended to the top of Mount Sinai and called Moses to the top of the mountain.




WE are expecting to be led "out of the camp" by Jesus, who has consecrated us for the last 2000 years through belief in Him, at the sound of a Jubilee (trumpet) which will take place "on the morning of the 3rd day" (millennium).

Therefore, if those believers in Christ are wearing Bridal Clothes and standing before the throne and the Lamb in heaven having come out of a great tribulation, then "great tribulation" is 2000 years long!





#2

Jesus said in Matt 24 that the tribulation immediately precedes the sun/moon darkening.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:



The sun/moon darken in seal #6 of REv 6. What immediately preceded the darkening? Seals 1-5.

Seal #5 is the giving of Bridal Clothes to the Bride. (glorified bodies/rapture)

Seals 1-4 are what Jesus described in Matt 24 as happening BEFORE the end comes:

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (seal #1)

Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet. Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. Mat 24:8 All these [are] the beginning of sorrows.

(seals 2-4)



How long have those things been going on for Israel AND for the world?

Since Christ ascended and opened the first four seals before 70AD.


Act 14:22Confirming the souls of the disciples, [and] exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.



Rom 8:35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?



Rev 1:9I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.





#3

Israel says:

Hsa 6:2After two days (2000 years)will he revive us: in the third day (millennium) he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.


Mic 5:3 Therefore Israel will be abandoned
until the time when she who is in labor gives birth
and the rest of his brothers return
to join the Israelites.

(Who is in labor? Romans 8/Galations 4)



Luk 21:24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.



Rom 11:25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.



#4

The Good Samaritan Parable.

The Good Samaritan, Jesus, gave the innkeeper two days wages (2 Denarii/2000 years) and then said he would return and recompense. He expected to be gone for two days. (2000 years)

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

And yet you'll accuse those who do not see the scriptures in the exact same light as you do as lacking spiritual discernment.

Let's just say that revelation hasn't hit your Spirit yet...but my prayer is that it will soon as things are pretty ugly already on this earth.

So there's no possible way that you could be wrong Nana ? Is it even remotely possible that the Matthew 24 scripture which you say is so plain, doesn't even refer to the church of God, but rather the remnan of Israel who is taken through the great tribualtion ?

OR are you completely beyond being incorrect in this matter ?

Revelation 12 makes it very clear imo Israel is taken through thr tribulation for 3.5 years. Matthew 24 pertains to Israel.

Not in this instance. Let me ask you Ghost air, how many times is Christ coming in the clouds with a trumpet blast? If the revelation has hit you already regarding this, then your answer should be only one time...Matt 24:30-31 ~ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a TRUMPET, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Of course Israel is involved, but so is the church!! There is a remant from the tribe of Jacob and Judah who are saved during this time also. One trumpet blast, one coming, one resurrection, one catching up. Simple as that.

OK, so now the church is up in the air from Rev 10 until the Lord meets them in Rev 19 ? Tell me your kidding ?

Rev 9 speaks of locusts coming out of the earth and stinging men for 5 months and that they couldn't die. So what, is the church up in the air for 5 months waiting for this ?

So? Rev 9:4 ~ And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. This doesn't hurt the church, we have the seal of the Holy Spirit...Eph 1:13-14 ~In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, 14) Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
As far as being in the air, I'm checking this out. Some things aren't clear, and we don't have all revelation at this point...sadly. Now this is the only verse that states that we are in heaven after the Second Coming...Rev 11:15 ~ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. I'm leaning more toward being in heaven instead of the air, but we would have to go there before the AC/false prophet are thrown in the lake of fire...which I find strange.

 

[Ghost air]

Let's just say that revelation hasn't hit your Spirit yet...but my prayer is that it will soon as things are pretty ugly already on this earth.

And so you believe that you DO have that revelation from God, and yet it's ok to CHANGE your position.

Was God wrong revealing something to you, or were YOU wrong Nana ?

Why would you CHANGE your position if you have revelation from God ?

Not in this instance.

This is your response to my asking you if you could be wrong. Like I mentioned earlier, I rarely (if ever) learn anything at all from those who think that they know it all and who believe that they cannot be wrong. It's ironic isn't it ? Those who tell you that they have revelation from God and that they can't be wrong are typically those who I can't learn anything from.

Let me ask you Ghost air, how many times is Christ coming in the clouds with a trumpet blast?

We are taught in the scriptures that we will meet the Lord in the air. We are also taught in Paul's letters that the church is the bride of Christ. We are shown in Rev that there are multitudes in heaven and that the marriage of the Lamb is come. We are then told that Christ comes and defeats the beast and his false prophet and that He reigns for a thousand years. We are then shown in Rev 21 that the bride comes down from heaven.

So you tell me Nana - how do you get one coming from that ?

Christ is coming for His bride as a thief in the night - to take those who are ready into the marriage. That is what a thief does - he steals away something that is precious. He is then coming to destroy the man of sin (the beast) with the brightness of His coming.

All that you have told me thus far is that it's all the same time, that the church will be up in the air (for who knows how long according to you) and then come right back down to earth again. That's not even scriptural, unless you would like to tear Rev 21 out of your bible.

Of course Israel is involved, but so is the church!! There is a remant from the tribe of Jacob and Judah who are saved during this time also. One trumpet blast, one coming, one resurrection, one catching up. Simple as that.

I read the opening posts to this thread, and your position was that the church IS Israel. Now you're telling me that they're different ? Why the change ? Is this more bad revelation that you have received Nana ?

I'm leaning more toward being in heaven instead of the air, but we would have to go there before the AC/false prophet are thrown in the lake of fire...which I find strange.

You mean that you're not sure ? But YOU have the revelation from God Nana, and we don't... and here you are admitting that you're not even sure ? ? ? Is that all the revelation that God can give you ? Are you telling me that the revelation from God only makes you lean in one direction or another ?

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

And so you believe that you DO have that revelation from God, and yet it's ok to CHANGE your position.

Yep, I have the revelation for sure that the coming of Christ isn't until after the tribulation. That I will NEVER change my stance. Ya know Ghost air, the bible states, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Tim 2:15. Now all any of us are doing is studying so that we can understand Gods word. None of us have totally arrived yet...which is evident from the pre-trib belief. Some of us absolutely see post trib in the Word as FACT!! I admit on here when I have changed my stance, or I am checking something out. That doesn't make me a hypocrite, or that I have all revelation, so back off with the condescending attitude. It just makes people not want to talk to you...which I am getting closer to that mark.

Was God wrong revealing something to you, or were YOU wrong Nana ?

God is never wrong. Like I stated previously, I am checking this out. I can tell you for a fact that you are wrong concerning the rapture, so who is wrong Ghost air...you or God?? I do have revelation about the timing of Christs coming.

Why would you CHANGE your position if you have revelation from God ?

Grow up and read what I said above.

This is your response to my asking you if you could be wrong. Like I mentioned earlier, I rarely (if ever) learn anything at all from those who think that they know it all and who believe that they cannot be wrong. It's ironic isn't it ? Those who tell you that they have revelation from God and that they can't be wrong are typically those who I can't learn anything from.

You aren't supposed to be learning from us anyway!! If someone says something that is biblical and it is backed up by the Word, then yes, it is no doubt true so you can learn. Your problem is that you are so stuck in pre-trib that you can't see anything else. YOU are wrong. By the way, I never said that I can't be wrong. Quit listening to your own conjured up thoughts trying to be a big bad debator. Learn debating ettiquette first. There is a BIG difference then being rude.

We are taught in the scriptures that we will meet the Lord in the air. We are also taught in Paul's letters that the church is the bride of Christ. We are shown in Rev that there are multitudes in heaven and that the marriage of the Lamb is come. We are then told that Christ comes and defeats the beast and his false prophet and that He reigns for a thousand years. We are then shown in Rev 21 that the bride comes down from heaven.

So you tell me Nana - how do you get one coming from that ?

Do you actually pay attention to what you read? You know as well as I do that I was referring to the coming of Christ for the church!! Why would I say, One trumpet blast, one coming, one resurrection, one catching up. Simple as that? I was not talking about the coming again in Rev 21

Christ is coming for His bride as a thief in the night - to take those who are ready into the marriage. That is what a thief does - he steals away something that is precious. He is then coming to destroy the man of sin (the beast) with the brightness of His coming.

Goody!!! Can't wait!!

All that you have told me thus far is that it's all the same time, that the church will be up in the air (for who knows how long according to you) and then come right back down to earth again. That's not even scriptural, unless you would like to tear Rev 21 out of your bible.

Get some Ginko Baloba, I hear it's good for memory loss. I SAID, that I was checking this out.

I read the opening posts to this thread, and your position was that the church IS Israel. Now you're telling me that they're different ? Why the change ? Is this more bad revelation that you have received Nana ?

Now you are in the realm of delusion. Please put the post number of where I stated that Israel is the church? Israel isn't the church!!!!!! I stated in a beginning post to Markea that he didn't know who Israel was and the church..post #7

You mean that you're not sure ? But YOU have the revelation from God Nana, and we don't... and here you are admitting that you're not even sure ? ? ? Is that all the revelation that God can give you ? Are you telling me that the revelation from God only makes you lean in one direction or another ?

You know Ghost air, you aren't here to learn anything but to try and make trouble instead to irritate me. Well, you have succeeded so well in doing that, I'm done talking to you. One thing for sure though, you will be right there with me in the tribulation if we are both still living...ENJOY and DON'T take the mark!!!

 

[Ghost air]

I can certainly understand your frustration Nana. I would be frustrated too if I believed that I couldn't be wrong and accused those who don't agree with me of being deceived... I mean let's face it - you have revelation straight from God and those who disagree have bought into Satan's lies.

Yeah, I can certainly understand why you're frustrated.

All that revelation from God and you're still not sure which way to lean - lol. Oh well, at least you have the revelation from God going for you. Those who don't agree with the post trib position can only hope to be as enlightened as you obviously are.

 

[visionary]

The biggest problem with pre-trib is the unpreparedness for the tribulation. Not that any of us can believe the overwhelming tribulation such as never been and never will again. I believe that it is the denial that it is really hapening to those who are die hard pre-trib. Not only are they unprepared, they are in denial, and thus are not prepared for what is happening. They will be overwhelmed more so than those who are trying to prepare, and they have not mentally, physically, emotional counted the cost, understood the end in a post-trib context, and worked on preparing their life to live in honor of God during this time.

 

[onwingsaseagles]

I can certainly understand your frustration Nana. I would be frustrated too if I believed that I couldn't be wrong and accused those who don't agree with me of being deceived... I mean let's face it - you have revelation straight from God and those who disagree have bought into Satan's lies.

Yeah, I can certainly understand why you're frustrated.

All that revelation from God and you're still not sure which way to lean - lol. Oh well, at least you have the revelation from God going for you. Those who don't agree with the post trib position can only hope to be as enlightened as you obviously are.

This post is truer than you think, posttribers are not infalible, however the Bible clearly teaches the possttrib rapture and those that cannot see it are being blinded by satan, and it is my hope that they will one day allow the blinders to be removed so that they can see the truth.

 

[visionary]

One other aspect of the pre-tribbers in a post-trib scenerio is that denial sets them up to receive the deceiver as the answer to their pre-trib scenerio and thus they play right into his hands.

 

[Ghost air]

The biggest problem with pre-trib is the unpreparedness for the tribulation. Not that any of us can believe the overwhelming tribulation such as never been and never will again. I believe that it is the denial that it is really hapening to those who are die hard pre-trib. Not only are they unprepared, they are in denial, and thus are not prepared for what is happening. They will be overwhelmed more so than those who are trying to prepare, and they have not mentally, physically, emotional counted the cost, understood the end in a post-trib context, and worked on preparing their life to live in honor of God during this time.

I mean let's face it... not ONE SINGLE member of the body of Christ has gone through the great tribuation. That does not mean that they will not have tribulation, because many aspects of our life are trials etc.

But it's not the great tribuation, it's not the time of Jacob's trouble. It's not the same as going through the time of testing that is coming upon the world. We are in the world, but we're not of the world. Our citizenship is in heaven.

IMO, the unpreparedness argument is silly at best. All members of Christ's church are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise which is the earnest of their inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession. Regardless of what the world can throw at us, it can not separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The unpreparedness argument must assume that God can lose those whom He Himself has sealed unto the day of redemption.

 

[onwingsaseagles]

The biggest problem with pre-trib is the unpreparedness for the tribulation. Not that any of us can believe the overwhelming tribulation such as never been and never will again. I believe that it is the denial that it is really hapening to those who are die hard pre-trib. Not only are they unprepared, they are in denial, and thus are not prepared for what is happening. They will be overwhelmed more so than those who are trying to prepare, and they have not mentally, physically, emotional counted the cost, understood the end in a post-trib context, and worked on preparing their life to live in honor of God during this time.

Exactly, very nicely put, visionary.

 

[Ghost air]

One other aspect of the pre-tribbers in a post-trib scenerio is that denial sets them up to receive the deceiver as the answer to their pre-trib scenerio and thus they play right into his hands.

Of course ! Pre-tribbers will be deceived by the one who blasphemes God and all those who are in heaven.

Please tell me you're joking

 

[onwingsaseagles]

I mean let's face it... not ONE SINGLE member of the body of Christ has gone through the great tribuation. That does not mean that they will not have tribulation, because many aspects of our life are trials etc.

But it's not the great tribuation, it's not the time of Jacob's trouble. It's not the same as going through the time of testing that is coming upon the world. We are in the world, but we're not of the world. Our citizenship is in heaven.

IMO, the unpreparedness argument is silly at best. All members of Christ's church are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise which is the earnest of their inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession. Regardless of what the world can throw at us, it can not separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The unpreparedness argument must assume that God can lose those whom He Himself has sealed unto the day of redemption.

No one has gone through the Great Tribulation because it hasn't begun yet, but if we are alive when it come we will go through it. The unpreparedness ''argument'' is very valid, those that think they are going to be whisked to heaven b4 the trib, when it hits they will indeed be unprepared for what is coming upon them.

By the way this is not an OSAS debate. Read Matthew 24 and pay close attention to verses 48-51, that will explain to you what will happen to a lot of the hard core pretribbers during the tribulation.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

One other aspect of the pre-tribbers in a post-trib scenerio is that denial sets them up to receive the deceiver as the answer to their pre-trib scenerio and thus they play right into his hands.

That is my fear for them visionary. I have had about 5 years now to prepare mentally for what is coming after being pre-trib for 35 years. My mind still can't totally fathom what is waiting for us during this time, but at least I will recognize who the deceiver is when it happens. If I have to die by being beheaded in order to refuse the mark, oh well, I obeyed Christ and will be with Him eternally. My neck was always to long anyway .

 

[Ghost air]

Well then, if a post tribber has said it, then it must be true. Obviously these people have special revelation from God (whereas those who disagree have already bought into Satan's lie) and they cannot be wrong.

Gee whiz, that settles it then.

We should all just listen to what the post tribbers say and we can't go wrong.

Even if Rev 21 tells us that the bride does not descend down to earth until after the millennium, post-tribbers tell us that as soon as we're caught up in the air, we come right back down. Obviously they will need to correct God on Rev 21 when He comes.

Have fun folks ! God Bless !