Pre-Trib Belief If Post Is Correct/Problems?

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Big Mouth Nana

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I have often wondered if there would be any significant difference between pre-tribbers going through the tribulation then post trib believers..which I am post. The bible states in John 8:32... And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Does that mean that those who do not see the truth are in more serious peril during the tribulation then those who are post who have received the truth?
The reason that I have these questions is because I was pre-trib for 35 years..post for about 5 years now. When I was pre-trib, it seemed like I had less worries about what was coming on the earth because I wouldn't be here. When I first discovered that post trib catching away was the truth, I was in shock for awhile, but now I am at peace knowing what to expect...and actually more grateful to God for showing me the truth since it has sunk in. In 2 Tim 4:3-4 it states this... For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4) And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. Now I believe that this has been going on since "whoever" started the pre-trib "fable." It has followed a long line of well known bible scholars/teachers such as John Darby, even as most recent, Hal Lindsay, Tim LaHay, and even preachers are expounding it on the Christian channels on TV. John Hagee, the pompous hypocrite that he is, said one day while I was watching 3 years ago, that the post trib rapture is the biggest lie that Satan ever perpetrated. He even said..DON'T YOU BELIEVE IT!! I haven't watched him since.
Now, I am wondering if people that follow this teaching and believe in a pre-trib rapture are going to be totally blind sided once the tribulation hits. God expects every one of us to search His Word for ourselves, and not rely on the truth of mans gospel from the pulpit, or what we have heard from our families carried down to us. Will this be considered believing a Satanic deception and pay the penalty in the end? If they can't even see the post trib rapture in the Word, will they even know who the Antichrist is once he is revealed? The bible doesn't really say anything about believing a "time line" lie, but it does say something about believing unsound doctrine. I DO believe that Satan started this lie for a very good reason...what is that reason and for what purpose?
I do believe that those who are full of what Word will know what is going on once this starts..unless they freak out thinking..OH NO, the rapture didn't happen. What do I do now??!! These are just some thoughts that I have had roaming through my head for awhile.
 
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HisdaughterJen

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Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Jhn 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.





1Jo 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
1Jo 3:10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.






Gal 5:16 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.
Gal 5:17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want.
Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
Gal 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
Gal 5:20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions
Gal 5:21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23gentleness and self‑control. Against such things there is no law.
Gal 5:24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.
Gal 5:25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.



Provide scriptural evidence to back up your assertions otherwise it's just an opinion/judgment based on...nothing.

Here are your assertions:

1. " Now I believe that this has been going on since "whoever" started the pre-trib "fable.""
2. "John Hagee, the pompous hypocrite that he is"
3. " Will this be considered believing a Satanic deception and pay the penalty in the end?"
4. " If they can't even see the post trib rapture in the Word, will they even know who the Antichrist is once he is revealed? "
5. "I DO believe that Satan started this lie for a very good reason"
6. "Does that mean that those who do not see the truth are in more serious peril during the tribulation then those who are post who have received the truth? "

Please provide scriptural evidence for all of these "thoughts". What does God say about your "thoughts"?
 
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Biblewriter

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When prophecy is fulfilled, many of us are going to find we were mistaken about many things.

I believe the scriptures teach a future scenario radically different from that seen by most of my pre-trib brethren. You believe we are both mistaken. The preteritists think none of us know anything about it. We all have our opinions, and we all think we have scriptural reasons to back up these opinions.

The only thing we can say with absolute certainty is that at the most, only one of these end time scenarios is correct. And that does not mean that even one of them is correct. Everyone who believes anything else will find themselves mistaken about many things.

You have changed your mind about the timing of the rapture. I have not changed my mind about many major points, but I have about very many minor points. As we continue to study the scriptures, we continue to learn, if our minds are open to the truth of God.

But when we take a stand that the errors of other godly Christians are evil, and not error, we get ourselves into trouble. For Romans 14:1 through 15:7 are extremely insistent on accepting each other even when we believe our brethren are in error.

As to my personal reaction if I see the end time scenario unwind and I am still here, I will simply know at that time that I was mistaken. My faith will in no way be shaken, nor will be the faith of any real believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. Not even one real Christian will accept the lie of the Antichrist, for every real Christian is going to heaven, and no one who worships the Antichrist will get there.

On the other hand, if we are right about the timing of the rapture, you will never know it on this earth, because you will only learn your error as you go up into the air.

If I am wrong, I will be caught by surprise, but there is very little anyone could do to prepare for this time anyway, except to keep our hearts in tune with the Lord.

In the mean time, you have lost the joy of expecting the Lord Jesus on a daily basis, and you have lost the purifying effect that this hope has on your life. That joy and that purifying effect are the main things that would have prepared you for this time, even if we have to go through it.
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Jhn 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.





1Jo 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
1Jo 3:10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.






Gal 5:16 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.
Gal 5:17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want.
Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
Gal 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
Gal 5:20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions
Gal 5:21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23gentleness and self‑control. Against such things there is no law.
Gal 5:24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.
Gal 5:25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.



Provide scriptural evidence to back up your assertions otherwise it's just an opinion/judgment based on...nothing.

Here are your assertions:

1. " Now I believe that this has been going on since "whoever" started the pre-trib "fable.""
2. "John Hagee, the pompous hypocrite that he is"
3. " Will this be considered believing a Satanic deception and pay the penalty in the end?"
4. " If they can't even see the post trib rapture in the Word, will they even know who the Antichrist is once he is revealed? "
5. "I DO believe that Satan started this lie for a very good reason"
6. "Does that mean that those who do not see the truth are in more serious peril during the tribulation then those who are post who have received the truth? "

Please provide scriptural evidence for all of these "thoughts". What does God say about your "thoughts"?
Interesting that you "bolded" certain scriptures that have nothing to do with this topic...revealing. The bible states many things..good and bad about thoughts. I'm not going to list the whole bible in this post. God did give us a mind to think, just like He Himself has thoughts as stated in the Word. Do you think that Jesus was thinking real good thoughts when He called the scribes and Pharisee's hypocrites, serpents, generation of vipers? How about when He went to the temple and cast out the money changers. He even over threw the tables that they sold on. I would have loved to have read His mind at that point. Thoughts can be good and bad, and calling John Hagee a pompous hypocrite wasn't being judgmental, but fitting. When an over weight man sits on his program with his own personal Physician, and tells his watchers that they need to get on this doctors diet for healths sake...THAT IS A HYPOCRITE!! By the way Jen, do you have scripture that shows that the hooks are actually in the jaws of Russia right now? How about your thoughts on the date sameness of certain events.? Please post them dear, as this is just ascersion based on your own thoughts. These are real normal thoughts that I am having, with nothing evil of my mind. We all have thoughts that aren't in the bible. If we didn't, we would be mindless walking Zombies!!! I'm thinking that I need to go load the dishwasher. Is that in the bible? Even God stated ..For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts...Isaiah 55:9. Our thoughts must be pretty base compared to His.
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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When prophecy is fulfilled, many of us are going to find we were mistaken about many things.

I believe the scriptures teach a future scenario radically different from that seen by most of my pre-trib brethren. You believe we are both mistaken. The preteritists think none of us know anything about it. We all have our opinions, and we all think we have scriptural reasons to back up these opinions.

The only thing we can say with absolute certainty is that at the most, only one of these end time scenarios is correct. And that does not mean that even one of them is correct. Everyone who believes anything else will find themselves mistaken about many things.

You have changed your mind about the timing of the rapture. I have not changed my mind about many major points, but I have about very many minor points. As we continue to study the scriptures, we continue to learn, if our minds are open to the truth of God.

But when we take a stand that the errors of other godly Christians are evil, and not error, we get ourselves into trouble. For Romans 14:1 through 15:7 are extremely insistent on accepting each other even when we believe our brethren are in error.

As to my personal reaction if I see the end time scenario unwind and I am still here, I will simply know at that time that I was mistaken. My faith will in no way be shaken, nor will be the faith of any real believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. Not even one real Christian will accept the lie of the Antichrist, for every real Christian is going to heaven, and no one who worships the Antichrist will get there.

On the other hand, if we are right about the timing of the rapture, you will never know it on this earth, because you will only learn your error as you go up into the air.

If I am wrong, I will be caught by surprise, but there is very little anyone could do to prepare for this time anyway, except to keep our hearts in tune with the Lord.

In the mean time, you have lost the joy of expecting the Lord Jesus on a daily basis, and you have lost the purifying effect that this hope has on your life. That joy and that purifying effect are the main things that would have prepared you for this time, even if we have to go through it.
Thank you Biblewriter. This was an intelligent Spirit inspired response :thumbsup: It made a lot of sense.
 
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Markea

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I agree that BW's response makes a lot of sense... so why do you think that your opinion of a post-trib rapture is more noble than a pre-trib belief..?

Is your opinion above that of others...?

Are you absolutely perfect and correct in your understanding of all that is going to happen...? Is Obama actually the antichrist as you have claimed..? These are all opinions, but for some reason, the post-tribbers here have recently been talking as if their opinions are better than those who do not agree with them.

Would it better if you simply shared your opinion and then left it at that... or is it absolutely necessary for you to conclude that anything else is a lie from Satan and that you're so far above that sort of problem...?
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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I agree that BW's response makes a lot of sense... so why do you think that your opinion of a post-trib rapture is more noble than a pre-trib belief..?

Is your opinion above that of others...?

Are you absolutely perfect and correct in your understanding of all that is going to happen...? Is Obama actually the antichrist as you have claimed..? These are all opinions, but for some reason, the post-tribbers here have recently been talking as if their opinions are better than those who do not agree with them.

Would it better if you simply shared your opinion and then left it at that... or is it absolutely necessary for you to conclude that anything else is a lie from Satan and that you're so far above that sort of problem...?
I'm still waiting for you to know exactly where YOU stand Markea? You don't seem to know who is Israel and who is the church, or certain if there is a pre or post coming of the Lord...unless you have finally landed on a belief recently? When you can make an informed decision and get off the fence then you can question my thinking. As far as the post tribbers thinking that they are better, in my case that is so far from the truth that it is laughable!! Just because I have had thoughts of the different time frames of the coming of Christ, and if they had repercussions doesn't mean that I am better...it means that I have had genuine concerns and nothing more!! Don't try to read more into what I posted. As far as Obama, that isn't an opinion but a revelation of the Spirit. THAT I don't have to explain because a person can't explain them, and people don't believe them anyway. Most don't believe in revelation from God regarding these types of things, so why beat your brains out trying :)
 
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HisdaughterJen

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Interesting that you "bolded" certain scriptures that have nothing to do with this topic...revealing. The bible states many things..good and bad about thoughts. I'm not going to list the whole bible in this post. God did give us a mind to think, just like He Himself has thoughts as stated in the Word. Do you think that Jesus was thinking real good thoughts when He called the scribes and Pharisee's hypocrites, serpents, generation of vipers? How about when He went to the temple and cast out the money changers. He even over threw the tables that they sold on. I would have loved to have read His mind at that point. Thoughts can be good and bad, and calling John Hagee a pompous hypocrite wasn't being judgmental, but fitting. When an over weight man sits on his program with his own personal Physician, and tells his watchers that they need to get on this doctors diet for healths sake...THAT IS A HYPOCRITE!! By the way Jen, do you have scripture that shows that the hooks are actually in the jaws of Russia right now? How about your thoughts on the date sameness of certain events.? Please post them dear, as this is just ascersion based on your own thoughts. These are real normal thoughts that I am having, with nothing evil of my mind. We all have thoughts that aren't in the bible. If we didn't, we would be mindless walking Zombies!!! I'm thinking that I need to go load the dishwasher. Is that in the bible? Even God stated ..For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts...Isaiah 55:9. Our thoughts must be pretty base compared to His.


PLEASE STOP JUDGING, ACCUSING, BERADING, AND CONDEMNING OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST!

Mat 7:2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

Gal 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
Gal 5:20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions
Gal 5:21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23gentleness and self‑control. Against such things there is no law.
Gal 5:24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.
Gal 5:25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

Ok, you've posted for the world to see just how much you HATE John Hagee and many others. We get the picture. Now, move on.

Furthermore, John Hagee's size is between him and his doctor. You have no idea what health problems he might be enduring or if his size is caused by an imbalance or due to medication.

Here's part of the statement of beliefs from John Hagee:

http://www.jhm.org/ME2/Sites/dirmod...2C3D7&SiteID=8112722C039B4E508F0AB8552B898895
"Beliefs


The Lord Jesus Christ

We believe in the deity of Jesus Christ as the only begotten Son of God. We believe in His substitutionary death for all men, His resurrection, and His eventual return to judge the world.
Salvation

We believe all men are born with a sinful nature and that the work of the Cross was to redeem man from the power of sin. We believe that this salvation is available to all who will receive it."
 
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HisdaughterJen

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By the way Jen, do you have scripture that shows that the hooks are actually in the jaws of Russia right now? How about your thoughts on the date sameness of certain events.? Please post them dear, as this is just ascersion based on your own thoughts.

I did that in another thread. Go there and read it.
 
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zeke37

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:wave:
When prophecy is fulfilled, many of us are going to find we were mistaken about many things.

I believe the scriptures teach a future scenario radically different from that seen by most of my pre-trib brethren. You believe we are both mistaken. The preteritists think none of us know anything about it. We all have our opinions, and we all think we have scriptural reasons to back up these opinions.

The only thing we can say with absolute certainty is that at the most, only one of these end time scenarios is correct. And that does not mean that even one of them is correct. Everyone who believes anything else will find themselves mistaken about many things.

You have changed your mind about the timing of the rapture. I have not changed my mind about many major points, but I have about very many minor points. As we continue to study the scriptures, we continue to learn, if our minds are open to the truth of God.

But when we take a stand that the errors of other godly Christians are evil, and not error, we get ourselves into trouble. For Romans 14:1 through 15:7 are extremely insistent on accepting each other even when we believe our brethren are in error.

As to my personal reaction if I see the end time scenario unwind and I am still here, I will simply know at that time that I was mistaken. My faith will in no way be shaken, nor will be the faith of any real believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. Not even one real Christian will accept the lie of the Antichrist, for every real Christian is going to heaven, and no one who worships the Antichrist will get there.

On the other hand, if we are right about the timing of the rapture, you will never know it on this earth, because you will only learn your error as you go up into the air.

If I am wrong, I will be caught by surprise, but there is very little anyone could do to prepare for this time anyway, except to keep our hearts in tune with the Lord.

In the mean time, you have lost the joy of expecting the Lord Jesus on a daily basis, and you have lost the purifying effect that this hope has on your life. That joy and that purifying effect are the main things that would have prepared you for this time, even if we have to go through it.
Satan himself is the antiChrist...the one that comes instead of Christ...cast from heaven for a short season, flooding the world with his lies

he comes first, pretending to be Christ....imo, pre tribbers are the most likely to believe his lies....because they ALREADY believe that Christ is still to come soon...first, then Satan after...second, then Christ again....third.

many Christians shall be fooled, completely beguiled...

Satan is coming first...as the son of Perdition (pretending to be Jesus, 2Cor11/Rev13:11) and God knows our hearts real well, and He has blinded many to the truth of this..2Thes2:8-11....

but being dambed is not the end for them.....there is still hope...
for God shall save them in the Lord's day(if it be pssoible-if they overcome Satan at the end of the Lord's Day, when he is released again for a last stand....1Cor5:4-5...the Millennial refinement period.

He shall even save those who were TAUGHT to fly to save their souls....Ez13.

as for being prepared, that is what the truth is for...there certianly is something that you can do....but that must be revealed to you. You would first have to drop pre trib as a possibility.


we know how long it is been shortened to - 5 months a length of time that can be prepared for.

we know not to participate in the World System that is to come
we know not to worship the beast in any way (that includes Satan pretending to be Messiah)
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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many Christians shall be fooled, completely beguiled...
I know that you and I disagree on a few points zeke, but do you understand why these thoughts have crossed my mind? I'm sure that a lot of post trib believers have had this thought...not just me. It's not a "prideful" thought as some believe about my opening post, it is a concern about deception.
 
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Markea

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I'm still waiting for you to know exactly where YOU stand Markea?


You haven't read my posts then... because imo I have made it clear where I stand.

You don't seem to know who is Israel and who is the church, or certain if there is a pre or post coming of the Lord...unless you have finally landed on a belief recently? When you can make an informed decision and get off the fence then you can question my thinking.

I do make a distinction between the church of God and the Israel of God... do you Nana..? Or do you simply believe that the church is Israel...?

An informed decision...? Is that like saying that everyone who doesn't believe what YOU believe is being deceived by Satan and that they haven't received the revelation from God that YOU have Nana... lol

As far as the post tribbers thinking that they are better, in my case that is so far from the truth that it is laughable!! Just because I have had thoughts of the different time frames of the coming of Christ, and if they had repercussions doesn't mean that I am better...it means that I have had genuine concerns and nothing more!! Don't try to read more into what I posted.

So it's just your opinion that pre-tribbers are deceived by Satan... and your post trib belief actually has nothing to do with personal revelation from God... it's simply what you see from the scriptures...

As far as Obama, that isn't an opinion but a revelation of the Spirit. THAT I don't have to explain because a person can't explain them, and people don't believe them anyway. Most don't believe in revelation from God regarding these types of things, so why beat your brains out trying :)

So you're the only one who has received revelation that Obama is the antichrist... and you actually believe that...? How do you know that you're not deceived in this matter...?
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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You haven't read my posts then... because imo I have made it clear where I stand.



I do make a distinction between the church of God and the Israel of God... do you Nana..? Or do you simply believe that the church is Israel...?
The Israel of God is the house of Jacob and Judah...to get technical. The church of God is exactly that...the church. We were grafted into them, so we are both the Israel of God...This is regarding being circumcised or not to be circumcised ...Gal 6:15-16 ~ For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16) And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the ISRAEL OF GOD...We also have this verse..2 Cor 5:17 ~ Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new...The Israel of God is a new creature in Christ, as in both of these verses, and so is anyone else who has accepted Jesus....Gal 3:28 ~ There is neither JEW nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. These verses are about as plain as it gets.



An informed decision...? Is that like saying that everyone who doesn't believe what YOU believe is being deceived by Satan and that they haven't received the revelation from God that YOU have Nana... lol
If it was just me that believed in post trib, then you would have a right to make this comment. There are TONS of us, and more seeing it all of the time. If I have had thoughts of if there were going to be any differences during the tribulation, I can pretty well bet that other posties have had them also. I would also say that the deception came by listening to MAN who many years ago imparted this lie from the Deceiver. I was part of this deception for 35 years myself from my pastors teaching, and my family believed this. I actually believe that many who stick to this pre-trib rapture do so because that is where they want to stay....it is comfortable to them, so they just accept it. It sure was comfortable for me!! I don't believe that God expects us to stay in that comfort zone and believe a lie.




So it's just your opinion that pre-tribbers are deceived by Satan... and your post trib belief actually has nothing to do with personal revelation from God... it's simply what you see from the scriptures...
Post trib was revealed to me by God. When you are reading along in the Word, and suddenly you go, WHOA,!! then that is revelation from the Holy Spirit. I had read Matt 24 several times and had never read something so simple in my life!! My sister saw the same thing 2 weeks later. Jesus is only coming for the church one time, but yet it clearly shows that He is coming "immediatley after the tribulation of those days."




So you're the only one who has received revelation that Obama is the antichrist... and you actually believe that...? How do you know that you're not deceived in this matter...?
Why are you stating things that I never said? If you are going to reply to my posts, please be truthful :) I am not the only one who believes that Obama is the antichrist. There are others. Just a few on here have stated that they believe that he is also. I don't worry about a handful of people on an internet site not seeing it. Some on here I wonder if they even really know who Jesus Christ is and have a relationship with Him. They know the name, but we all know who the Devil is also. If you haven't ran across them yet, you will eventually.
Like I stated before Markea, it is hard to explain revelation from God, but I DO know the difference between Satanic deception and revelation from God. Look at it this way, the Savior was prophesied in the OT to come, but the Jews didn't accept him and recognize Him when He finally came. It will be no different with people in this day and age when the antichrist shows up. The Jews will accept him, as well as a lot of the people on the earth, including those who claim to be Christians...John 5:43 ~ I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
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garry2

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Satan himself is the antiChrist...the one that comes instead of Christ...cast from heaven for a short season, flooding the world with his lies

he comes first, pretending to be Christ....imo, pre tribbers are the most likely to believe his lies....because they ALREADY believe that Christ is still to come soon...first, then Satan after...second, then Christ again....third.


Pre tribbers will be in Heaven, married to Christ when the beast is with you on earth.

Revelation 19
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.


The marriage takes place in Heaven before Christ returns to earth.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.


These armies are the Bride - the saints, is plain from verse 8.

many Christians shall be fooled, completely beguiled...

Satan is coming first...as the son of Perdition (pretending to be Jesus, 2Cor11/Rev13:11) and God knows our hearts real well, and He has blinded many to the truth of this..2Thes2:8-11....

but being dambed is not the end for them.....there is still hope...
for God shall save them in the Lord's day(if it be pssoible-if they overcome Satan at the end of the Lord's Day, when he is released again for a last stand....1Cor5:4-5...the Millennial refinement period.

He shall even save those who were TAUGHT to fly to save their souls....Ez13.

as for being prepared, that is what the truth is for...there certianly is something that you can do....but that must be revealed to you. You would first have to drop pre trib as a possibility.


we know how long it is been shortened to - 5 months a length of time that can be prepared for.

we know not to participate in the World System that is to come
we know not to worship the beast in any way (that includes Satan pretending to be Messiah)
...
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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Pre tribbers will be in Heaven, married to Christ when the beast is with you on earth.
Unfortunately, the second part of your statement is correct. Let me ask you something garry2. If Matt 24 was the only chapter in the NT and you read Matt 24:3-31, what would your answer be regarding the timing of Christ's coming? Pay close attention to verses 3, 14, 15, 21, and 29 thru 31. This is as plain as it can get. The other verses in the bible that talk about Christs coming are the same time frame as these verses in Matthew. Matthew is just the only one that mentions the tribulation in regards to His coming. Jesus is only coming for the church ONE time.
 
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HisdaughterJen

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There is one millennial reign of Christ.

He reigns from day one even if He is not physically present.

The bible shows, in the symbolism of Exodus 19:10-20, that "on the morning of the third day", God will come down and Christ will lead us "out of the camp" to the Mountain of God at the sound of a Jubilee/tumpet and an earthquake.

This is what 1 Thess 4:13-18 & Hebrews 12:12-24 & Rev 7 are all talking about. (as well as seal #5 & 6 of Rev 6)

Furthermore, we are the firstfruits offering of the "bread" of the harvest of the FIRST CROP as symbolically listed in Lev 23. We are offered up to God before the "second crop", mentioned in Amos 7:1, begins to come up, before the locust invasion (gog).

Amo 7:1 This is what the Sovereign Lord showed me: He was preparing swarms of locusts (gog invaders) after the king's share had been harvested (rapture of the church) and just as the second crop was coming up. (144,000 of Israel sealed)


The gog/Northern army invasion happens when the earthquake, sun/moon darken (seal #6 of Rev 6) which is at the beginning of the final seven years (which are really the first seven years of the new millenium). How do I know? Because Joel 2 says the invaders come at the time of the earthquake/sun/moon darkening (which is seal #6) AND because seal #7 IS AFTER seal #6. Seal #7 includes the beasts, the two witnesses, the trumpets and the bowls and ENDS with the war of Armageddon.


Israel is expecting their Messiah after the Ezekiel gog war. What they don't understand is that He doesn't physically come until about 7 years later and after the Armageddon war. Two-thirds of Israel and the rest of the world will still "refuse to love the truth" (which is Jesus as Messiah) and "believe the lie"...

2Th 2:11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
2Th 2:12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.


God makes His presence known when He destroys the gog/Northern army at the beginning of the 3rd millennium.

Eze 38:20 The fish of the sea, the birds of the air, the beasts of the field, every creature that moves along the ground, and all the people on the face of the earth will tremble at my presence. The mountains will be overturned, the cliffs will crumble and every wall will fall to the ground.

After the gog/northern army invasion and destruction, Israel will build their temple and most likely accept the anti-christ as the messiah even though the two witnesses are prophesying and testifying and calling down fire and plagues (basically, warning Israel). When the anti-christ stands in the temple and declares himself to be God, then 2/3 of Israel will be killed by the anti-christ (Zech 13). The remnant (144,000) will be sealed and protected. God will continue to pour out His judgments and wrath on the wicked and the kingdom of the beast until the anti-christ forms an army to fight against Christ as He physically returns. The army will be destroyed by Christ as He comes.
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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These verses point to the same event, in fact they are almost identical in senerio. This happens during the tribulation and right before the Day of The Lord.

Christs coming with the saints to fight the antichrist armies.

Joel 2:10-11 ~ A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them. The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining...11) And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word (Word of God): for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?


Christs coming with the saints to fight the antichrist armies.

Rev 19:12-15 & 19 ~ His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13) And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14) And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15) And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, (Word of God) that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Verse 19)... And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Unfortunately, the second part of your statement is correct. Let me ask you something garry2. If Matt 24 was the only chapter in the NT and you read Matt 24:3-31, what would your answer be regarding the timing of Christ's coming? Pay close attention to verses 3, 14, 15, 21, and 29 thru 31. This is as plain as it can get. The other verses in the bible that talk about Christs coming are the same time frame as these verses in Matthew. Matthew is just the only one that mentions the tribulation in regards to His coming. Jesus is only coming for the church ONE time.
:) Why is Matthew the only Gospel that mentions the Trump of the Day of the Lord and also Parousia? :blush:

http://christianforums.com/t6920830&page=4

Matthew 24:3 He is yet sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples toward-came to Him according to own, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what the Sign of the Thy ParousiaV <3952>, and of the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age?' [Daniel 12/Revelation 19]

1 Thessalonians 3:13 Into the stand-fast of ye, the hearts blameless in together-holiness before the God and Father of us in the Parousia <3952> of the Lord of us, Jesus Christ, with all of the holy-ones of Him [Zech 14:5/Revelation 19:11.]
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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:) Why is Matthew the only Gospel that mentions the Trump of the Day of the Lord and also Parousia? :blush:
Hi LLoJ. It's not. 1 Cor 15:52.. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thess 4:16 ~ For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the TRUMP of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
The trump is the trumpet that the last angel sounds in Rev 10:7, as it says last trump in 1 Cor 15:52. Rev 10:7... But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel...last angel..last trumpet, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.


http://christianforums.com/t6920830&page=4

Matthew 24:3 He is yet sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples toward-came to Him according to own, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what the Sign of the Thy ParousiaV <3952>, and of the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age?' [Daniel 12/Revelation 19]

1 Thessalonians 3:13 Into the stand-fast of ye, the hearts blameless in together-holiness before the God and Father of us in the Parousia <3952> of the Lord of us, Jesus Christ, with all of the holy-ones of Him [Zech 14:5/Revelation 19:11.][/quote]
 
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