Praying to Saints? - Praying to those who are already in Heaven?

[Constantine the Sinner]

Worship a nd prayer belong to God in His three persons only.

No humans (alive or not), animals, plants, celestial objects, angels or anything else are worthy to receive worship or capable to hear/answer/pass on prayers.

God is God. Creation is creation. Should never be confused. It's very important. Monotheism.

No amount of acrobatics with word meanings is going to make it less true.

Wrong, there is nowhere in the Bible that says prayer is only for God. You are equating prayer with worshiping a deity--that's your definition, not mine, neither the innate definition of the word. The word originally was just used as "please," just as "prithee" or "pray tell".

 

[amariselle]

That doesn't exist. Entreating someone other than God, regarding your salvation, is always about asking them to petition God to have mercy on you, not about them accomplishing it themselves.

Actually it does. You should really read some of those prayers. Pretty obvious.

 

[ubicaritas]

It is my belief that people should be guided by their conscience on this matter and not seek to bind the conscience of others, because it doesn't seem to be a practice the Bible explicitly prohibits.

 

[amariselle]

That doesn't exist. Entreating someone other than God, regarding your salvation, is always about asking them to petition God to have mercy on you, not about them accomplishing it themselves.

(St. Louis De Montfort's Consecration)
I, (Name), a faithless sinner -
renew and ratify today in thy hands,
O Immaculate Mother,
the vows of my Baptism;
I renounce forever Satan,
his pomps and works;
and I give myself entirely to Jesus Christ,
the Incarnate Wisdom,
to carry my cross after Him
all the days of my life,
and to be more faihful to Him
than I have ever been before.

In the presence of all the heavenly court
I choose thee this day,
for my Mother and Mistress.
I deliver and consecrate to thee,
as thy slave, my body and soul,
my goods, both interior and exterior,
and even the value of all my good actions,
past, present and future;
leaving to thee the entire
and full right of disposing of me,
and all that belongs to me, without exception,
according to thy good pleasure,
for the greater glory of God,
in time and in eternity.

Amen.

O Mary, Virgin most powerful and Mother of mercy,
Queen of Heaven and Refuge of sinners, we consecrate ourselves to thine Immaculate Heart.

We consecrate to thee our very being and our whole life;
all that we have,
all that we love,
all that we are.

To thee we give our bodies,
our hearts and our souls;
to thee we give our homes,
our families, our country.

We desire that all that is in us
and around us may belong to thee,
and may share in the benefits of thy motherly benediction.

And that this act of consecration
may be truly efficacious and lasting,
we renew this day at thy feet the promises of our Baptism and our first Holy Communion.

We pledge ourselves to profess courageously and at all times the truths of our holy Faith, and to live as befits Catholics who are duly submissive to all the directions of the Pope and the Bishops in communion with him.

We pledge ourselves to keep the commandments of God and His Church,
in particular to keep holy the Lord's Day.

We likewise pledge ourselves
to make the consoling practices of the Christian religion, and above all, Holy Communion, an integral part of our lives,
in so far as we shall be able so to do.

Finally, we promise thee, O glorious Mother of God and loving Mother of men, to devote ourselves whole-heartedlyto the service of thy blessed cult,in order to hasten and assure, through the sovereignty of thine Immaculate Heart, the coming of the kingdom of the Sacred Heart of thine adorable Son, in our own hearts and in those of all men, in our country and in all the world, as in heaven, so on earth.

Amen.

For more prayers, visit this link:

Catholic Prayers, Novenas, Prayers to Jesus, Marian Prayers, Prayers of the Saints

 

[amariselle]

It is my belief that people should be guided by their conscience on this matter and not seek to bind the conscience of others, because it doesn't seem to be a practice the Bible explicitly prohibits.

I disagree. And we do need to care about others.

 

[ubicaritas]

I disagree. And we do need to care about others.

There's a difference between caring about others, and binding a man or woman's conscience to things that are not prohibited by the Scriptures. That potentially shows a lack of respect for the spiritual freedom of others.

 

[PeaceB]

It seems that many who object to prayer to the saints have a simplistic view of God. It is almost as though God is viewed as being in direct competition with the things that he himself has created. God is seen as a mere being within the universe, rather than the non-contingent ground of existence that gives life to everything. Therefore, honoring God's creation is seen by them as taking away something that is due to god, rather than glorifying God by way of honoring the good things that he has created.

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

(St. Louis De Montfort's Consecration)
I, (Name), a faithless sinner -
renew and ratify today in thy hands,
O Immaculate Mother,
the vows of my Baptism;
I renounce forever Satan,
his pomps and works;
and I give myself entirely to Jesus Christ,
the Incarnate Wisdom,
to carry my cross after Him
all the days of my life,
and to be more faihful to Him
than I have ever been before.

In the presence of all the heavenly court
I choose thee this day,
for my Mother and Mistress.
I deliver and consecrate to thee,
as thy slave, my body and soul,
my goods, both interior and exterior,
and even the value of all my good actions,
past, present and future;
leaving to thee the entire
and full right of disposing of me,
and all that belongs to me, without exception,
according to thy good pleasure,
for the greater glory of God,
in time and in eternity.

Amen.

O Mary, Virgin most powerful and Mother of mercy,
Queen of Heaven and Refuge of sinners, we consecrate ourselves to thine Immaculate Heart.

We consecrate to thee our very being and our whole life;
all that we have,
all that we love,
all that we are.

To thee we give our bodies,
our hearts and our souls;
to thee we give our homes,
our families, our country.

We desire that all that is in us
and around us may belong to thee,
and may share in the benefits of thy motherly benediction.

And that this act of consecration
may be truly efficacious and lasting,
we renew this day at thy feet the promises of our Baptism and our first Holy Communion.

We pledge ourselves to profess courageously and at all times the truths of our holy Faith, and to live as befits Catholics who are duly submissive to all the directions of the Pope and the Bishops in communion with him.

We pledge ourselves to keep the commandments of God and His Church,
in particular to keep holy the Lord's Day.

We likewise pledge ourselves
to make the consoling practices of the Christian religion, and above all, Holy Communion, an integral part of our lives,
in so far as we shall be able so to do.

Finally, we promise thee, O glorious Mother of God and loving Mother of men, to devote ourselves whole-heartedlyto the service of thy blessed cult,in order to hasten and assure, through the sovereignty of thine Immaculate Heart, the coming of the kingdom of the Sacred Heart of thine adorable Son, in our own hearts and in those of all men, in our country and in all the world, as in heaven, so on earth.

Amen.

For more prayers, visit this link:

Catholic Prayers, Novenas, Prayers to Jesus, Marian Prayers, Prayers of the Saints

I'm Orthodox, not Catholic. We firmly reject the idea that Mary is co-redemptrix.

 

[amariselle]

I'm Orthodox, not Catholic. We firmly reject the idea that Mary is co-redemptrix

I'm glad.

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

I'm glad.

However I don't find anything particularly objectionable about what you underlined except the strange parts about the heart. Mary is indeed queen of heaven; not in the sense of running it, but in being the king's mother. These words are similar to ones you might say to an earthly sovereign back in the day.

 

[amariselle]

It seems that many who object to prayer to the saints have a simplistic view of God. It is almost as though God is viewed as being in direct competition with the things that he himself has created. God is seen as a mere being within the universe, rather than the non-contingent ground of existence that gives life to everything. Therefore, honoring God's creation is seen by them as taking away something that is due to god, rather than glorifying God by way of honoring the good things that he has created.

Here is what the Bible says about "honouring" the things God has created. Remember, He is a jealous God and will not share His glory with another.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.- Romans 1:18-25

 

[seeking.IAM]

We believe we are in Communion with all Christendom. We believe we are in communion with those Christians who came before us (i.e. the saints), those who walk with us, and those who are yet to come but will come after us. We pray for the dead and ask those who are now in Heaven to also pray for us, just as you might ask someone in your church to pray for you. Indeed, it is a part of our historic Apostle's Creed, and has been a belief of the church for over a thousand years before some came along proclaiming a new revelation, essentially saying, "You've been doing it wrong all this time."

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the Life everlasting. Amen​

"You [we Christians worshiping on earth] have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to innumerable angels in joyful assembly, to the Church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of the new covenant." (Hebrews 12:22-24)

 

[amariselle]

However I don't find anything particularly objectionable about what you underlined except the strange parts about the heart. Mary is indeed queen of heaven; not in the sense of running it, but in being the king's mother. These words are similar to ones you might say to an earthly sovereign back in the day.

Where is it written in Scripture that Mary is the "Queen of Heaven?"

 

[PeaceB]

I'm Orthodox, not Catholic. We firmly reject the idea that Mary is co-redemptrix.

So do many Catholics. Not dogma.

 

[amariselle]

We believe we are in Communion with all Christendom. We believe we are in communion with those Christians who came before us (i.e. the saints), those who walk with us, and those who are yet to come but will come after us. We pray for the dead and ask those who are now in Heaven to also pray for us, just as you might ask someone in your church to pray for you. Indeed, it is a part of our historic Apostle's Creed, and has been a belief of the church for over a thousand years before some came along proclaiming a new revelation, essentially saying, "You've been doing it wrong all this time."

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the Life everlasting. Amen​

"You [we Christians worshiping on earth] have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to innumerable angels in joyful assembly, to the Church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of the new covenant." (Hebrews 12:22-24)

So where in that verse from Hebrews does it say to pray to the saints?

 

[amariselle]

There's a difference between caring about others, and binding a man or woman's conscience to things that are not prohibited by the Scriptures. That potentially shows a lack of respect for the spiritual freedom of others.

Praying to anyone other than God is prohibited by the Scriptures. Not even the angels accept such things from mankind.

 

[ubicaritas]

Praying to anyone other than God is prohibited by the Scriptures. Not even the angels accept such things from mankind.

Please cite a specific verse to back this up.

Prayer is not worship. The etymology of the word argue against this, as at one time "pray" was used in ordinary speech, as in "pray" to mean "ask".

 

[amariselle]

Prayer is not worship.

It absolutely can be. Unless you believe that prayers do not include praise.

 

[ubicaritas]

It absolutely can be. Unless you believe that prayers do not include praise.

There's nothing wrong with praising a human being, either. We do it all the time in our ordinary lives.

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

Where is it written in Scripture that Mary is the "Queen of Heaven?"

Psalm 45