Praying, repetitiveness, concentration

[rockytopva]

In the video below we have a group prayer environment where there are many praying at one time. It is hard to find a prayer environment like this in this day and time.

 

[jacksknight]

We asked for no Catholic Bashing.

You can take it up with Jesus then, he is the one who said it.

 

[Goatee]

Yes ... It CAN BE God that puts an image there, just as other more experiential aspects can be from God, or be angels, etc.

The problem is that neophytes may not be able to discern, and it has been a common attack of the enemy against certain kinds of persons especially. This is why we submit to a spiritual father if we need one.

Spiritual images, from God, are the source of icons. But we understand they are generally received by illumined and purified souls.

It was not my intent to criticize. As I said, if you wish to know more, feel free to ask in TAW, or read the link I sent. I probably should not have mentioned our differences at all.

I will confess this so perhaps you might understand. I don't know why I have always been drawn to prayer. As a child, with no real family influence (I remember my mother going to church twice during my childhood, and we had a Bible, but I was the only one who ever read it) ... growing up like this, I still prayed as a child, often for hours. I had no idea what I was doing, or really that I WAS praying. As an adult, after I really converted, I loved to pray even more. I prayed every chance I could get - hours at some times of day, and every stolen 15 minutes I could get when busy. I would forgo sleep to pray. On average, probably around 6 hours at some times.

And eventually there came a point when I had so much going on spiritually that I did fall into delusion. I had no idea at the time, no guidance, no oversight. I was probably too far gone and too wrapped up in my experiences to accept it. And there were serious consequences. It may have completely shipwrecked my faith, and that of other lives I touched, were it not for the grace of God. (And I still pray for those others - some I deeply regret where they are now and my part in it. Lord forgive me.)

Because of that, I tend to take warnings very seriously, and share them. Maybe even when I shouldn't. The mire they are needed, the less a person will accept them anyway. Unless it prevents the whole thing from ever starting, it wouldn't matter.

I'm not saying every Catholic who prays that way is deluded. Not at ALL. Of the Catholics I know, none display the spiritual pride and arrogance that are a symptom. I'm only saying there is danger. But maybe another person does not have the same vulnerability as I. Maybe a person has some protection by virtue merely of following the spiritual guidance they've been given. Maybe something else. At any rate, I'm in no position to judge or lead. The most I would ever do is point someone to where to read or who to ask.

It might be best to leave it at this. As I said, if you're interested, reading about prelest can be very enlightening. It's always good to be aware of the wiles of the enemy. I think my life and that of several other people would be very different today if I had known these things many years ago. (I had no idea that what I was doing was practicing hesychasm mixed with Catholic and other practices with no guidance - if you ask anyone who knows what that is, they will tell you I was a fool - and I was.) But I guess having experienced the depths of spiritual problems, and being rescued from them by the grace of God, I'm just too zealous to protect others. Please forgive me.

Excellent post. Thanks for sharing

 

[Sam91]

Hi, I don't know what was said before but wanted to just stop by and say.

No where in the bible does it say you need to do the roasry prayer. I do not know what it is. There is nothing scripture based stopping you from fiving it a miss and praying to the Lord with the words you would like to say. You might find him being more active in your life.

He answers my prayers all the time. Like I will ask him something and pray for qualities and the next bit of the bible I read ends yp about what I wanted to know. Don't let tour religion become a stumbling block in yr relationship with Christ and our Heavenly Father

 

[Sam91]

Or I will ask something in prayer and another Christian pops up with something to tell me. Our God is a Living God and much more Powerful than we can imagine.

I am but one grain of sand among billions of Christians. There is nothing special about me. So why does he perform miracles all the time which are mathematically impossible to be coincidences and do the same for so many others. Such power he has. He is deserving of more Praise and Love than I as a lowly human being can offer.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Or I will ask something in prayer and another Christian pops up with something to tell me. Our God is a Living God and much more Powerful than we can imagine.

I am but one grain of sand among billions of Christians. There is nothing special about me. So why does he perform miracles all the time which are mathematically impossible to be coincidences and do the same for so many others. Such power he has. He is deserving of more Praise and Love than I as a lowly human being can offer.

It's interesting how in both 1 Thessalonians 5 and Philippians 4 the references to prayer are interspersed with references to joy and thanksgiving!

 

[Open Heart]

You can take it up with Jesus then, he is the one who said it.

Jesus instructed no "vain" repetition. There is nothing vain about the repetition of the Rosary.

 

[BelleC]

I'm not Catholic but I do understand meditative prayer such as the rosary. The words are only partly important because the heart of the rosary is to meditate and immerse yourself on events in the life of Jesus, such as His birth, baptism, or crucifixion. By saying the words on one hand and trying to meditate on the event on the other it is actually supposed to help block out your own thoughts because it is like trying to pat your head and rub your tummy . Some videos of the rosary with beautiful artwork to see that depict each event may be helpful. Try to bring all your senses into it. The few times I tried it I had index cards with verses of the bible relating to each event to read and meditate on for each decade. If you want real help on this I would ask in a Catholic forum where people won't get stuck on the repetition part.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Brings to mind this cartoon:

My opinion only: I think people may subconsciously believe the longer we stay in prayer, the more faith it shows, and the more God will hear us. If someone prays only one or two sentences, somehow it just doesn't seem very pious. But we run out of things to say, so we babble and insert a lot of filler.

I believe God doesn't care about that. Some people just have less to say. If they're sincere, and they say everything that's on their hearts, then as long as they talk to God at all, He is pleased.

Now, that's not the same thing as praying the Rosary or any other recited prayer. My own concern is that such things can come to be parroting mindlessly, not thinking about what you're saying. But IF the person IS thinking about what he or she is saying, and finds peace in it, then that is not "vain" repetition, and not what Jesus cautioned about. The same thing happens in twelve-step recovery meetings where they do a lot of reciting and reading things long-term members have memorized.

 

[Deadworm]

"Do not use vain repetitions ['Do not heap up empty phrases"--NRSV] as the Gentiles do; for they think they will be heard for their many words (Matt 6:7)." Versus
"Keep on asking, and it will be given you; keep on seeking, and you will find; keep on knocking, and the door will be opened for you (Matt 7:7)."

A comparison of Matthew 6:6-8 and 7:9-11 creates this paradox: On the one hand, we must avoid repetitive prayers and on the other hand we must recognize that repetitive asking, seeking, and knocking is the key to answered prayer. How is this paradox to be resolved? We must begin by noting that Jesus' response to vain repetition is, "God heard you the first time!" "For your Father knows what you need before you ask Him (Matt. 6:8). Many Christians act as if prayers become magic words through repetition. We besiege the throne of grace, as if it takes several reminders before God gets the message. We have not thought through the reason why repetitive petitioning is still needed when God already recognizes our need.

Our petitions become effective when they are energized by potent faith. Repetitive prayer must not be a whiny nagging, but rather an expectant, sustained, and focussed attention on the need in a high state of alertness. Jesus stresses the need to be vigilant or fully awake during our prayer sessions. So often we abandon prayer because God seems so distant or absent, when it is we who are not fully present before God. So we pray mechanically, sleepily, half-heartedly, without thoroughly ruminating on what we are praying.

Fears of eastern mysticism prevent Christians from recognizing that prayer needs to be accompanied by repetitive meditation. 2 images crystalize Biblical meditation:
(1) It means continual muttering or ruminating on some aspect of God's Word. A cow is the model for such rumination. It chews on its cud continually, swallows it, and then regurgitates it, to continue chewing until it is fully digested.

(2) Psalm 1:2-3 uses a different image to elaborate on this meditative rumination:
"On His law they meditate day and night (rumination). They are like trees planted by streams of water, which yield their fruit in its season, and their leaves do not wither (no withering faith). In all that they do they prosper (effective prayer life)."

Thus, meditation can also be conceived as the act of planting snippets of God's Word into our spirit and then continually watering those words until they take root and grow through watered by the nearby stream, the living water of the Holy Spirit. Such meditation both interiorizes and personalize God's Word.

 

[Sam91]

I think a lot of people over complicate it. We are given his Holy spirit to help us know what to pray. I don't do half of that stuff but prayers are still answered.

I don't always need words. (I rarely pray without words but it is useful sometimes, I just say 'Lord you know my heart, you know what I need, I'm sorry for everything (its often pride), I'm listening and sit communing with him at peace and let His Holy spirit do it and just listening... not that I hear anything but feel like my soul at least is hearing is being put right).

Complete faith makes prayer powerful.

 

[Goatee]

Vain prayer is worthless talk. Meaningless words.

The Rosary is not meaningless words It is not worthless talk. It is prayer offered up with Jesus in mind. His life, His ministry, His suffering etc.

Prayer can get repetitive though. Any prayer.

When that happens then i believe we have to step back and survey our life / prayer life. Put God back in the centre of our lives again. Concentrate on our prayers more.

 

[Open Heart]

I'm not Catholic but I do understand meditative prayer such as the rosary. The words are only partly important because the heart of the rosary is to meditate and immerse yourself on events in the life of Jesus, such as His birth, baptism, or crucifixion. By saying the words on one hand and trying to meditate on the event on the other it is actually supposed to help block out your own thoughts because it is like trying to pat your head and rub your tummy . Some videos of the rosary with beautiful artwork to see that depict each event may be helpful. Try to bring all your senses into it. The few times I tried it I had index cards with verses of the bible relating to each event to read and meditate on for each decade. If you want real help on this I would ask in a Catholic forum where people won't get stuck on the repetition part.

For a non-Catholic you have EXCELLENT understanding of the Rosary!

 

[~Anastasia~]

What I don't think I've seen mentioned here is that prayer is a two-way street. Yes, it involves a relationship with God. We pretty much all understand that.

But many times we seem to focus only on what God does in response to our prayers, His answering of prayer, as if the only desired outcome is how we can get Him to act.

One of the major benefits I discovered from formal prayers is not in getting God to do what I want (affecting God) but rather the change that happens in me, shaping the way I approach God, the reverence they instill in me, the awareness of God's greatness, a sense of praise, of repentance, of humility, and so much more. It was easy in the past to approach God with a sense of praise, for example, but repentance might not enter in so easily. And so on. The formal prayers teach ME to be more bakanced and fully formed in how I approach God and how I pray. They change ME, and serve in that way, rather than seeking to change God's action to suit our will.

Many benefits come from them, but this has been one of the greatest, for me. The prayers are sometimes for me, and not so much for God.

I don't know if the prayer books of other traditions would be the same - I'm familiar only with Orthodox prayers. But I'm assuming they would be.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[Emmarabiu]

Do you find prayer repetitive? Do you loose concentration when praying?

Sometimes i rush my prayers without a lot of thought. This is wrong i know. I do try to concentrate but do find it hard.

For those of us who recite the Rosary (Please, no Catholic Bashing on this) i also get lost in the day etc when praying the Rosary.

I know this is all normal but i really do wish i could push aside thoughts of the day, of life and just concentrate on God alone!

Is this the same for you or not. If not, help!

To me
Prayer is like talking to a father about the exact situation you are in. It depends on how close you are to God in your spirit. If you see God as one big mighty ruler seating high up there, you will begin to look for processes and procedures of talking to this unapproachable maximum ruler. But if you consider Him as your father, you will begin to relate to Him in love and I guess you cannot lose concentration while talking to the father you love.
Prayer is a spiritual thing! If you are not led by the spirit, you cannot pray in the will of God and you know that any prayer done out of Hus will does not receive answer!
Lastly, if we look at the prayer model of Jesus the Christ, He said we should pray like this: Our father, who art in heaven. He is supposed to be our father to be reverenced and worshipped while laying our petitions.

 

[~Anastasia~]

To me
Prayer is like talking to a father about the exact situation you are in. It depends on how close you are to God in your spirit. If you see God as one big mighty ruler seating high up there, you will begin to look for processes and procedures of talking to this unapproachable maximum ruler. But if you consider Him as your father, you will begin to relate to Him in love and I guess you cannot lose concentration while talking to the father you love.
Prayer is a spiritual thing! If you are not led by the spirit, you cannot pray in the will of God and you know that any prayer done out of Hus will does not receive answer!
Lastly, if we look at the prayer model of Jesus the Christ, He said we should pray like this: Our father, who art in heaven. He is supposed to be our father to be reverenced and worshipped while laying our petitions.

Hello Emmarablu, and welcome to CF! We are glad that you've joined us!

It is true that prayer is, among other things, talking to our Heavenly Father. Those are often the sweetest times.

But prayer is also many other things, for different ones of us, and perhaps at different seasons. At times there is warfare, at times demons interfere, at times some wrestle even with God, and so on. And at times the "feelings" may not be there and some find it difficult to pray. At times difficulties and distractions of life can make prayer difficult for some. Not everyone experiences all things, or at all times. Such situations do not always point to a lack of relationship with God though.

I do hope that you are blessed by being a part of CF, and we look forward to reading more of your posts. Again, welcome, and God be with you!

 

[Goatee]

Hello Emmarablu, and welcome to CF! We are glad that you've joined us!

It is true that prayer is, among other things, talking to our Heavenly Father. Those are often the sweetest times.

But prayer is also many other things, for different ones of us, and perhaps at different seasons. At times there is warfare, at times demons interfere, at times some wrestle even with God, and so on. And at times the "feelings" may not be there and some find it difficult to pray. At times difficulties and distractions of life can make prayer difficult for some. Not everyone experiences all things, or at all times. Such situations do not always point to a lack of relationship with God though.

I do hope that you are blessed by being a part of CF, and we look forward to reading more of your posts. Again, welcome, and God be with you!

Very true.

For someone who has prayed continuously for many years, dryness, repetitiveness and evil can creep into ones prayer life! I am sure the closer you come to God the more the devil tries to pull you away from him!

For me, i constantly ask for guidance and closeness of God only to keep sinning, failing miserably in life! It doesn't mean i give up though. No! I get up, brush off the dust and dirt and plough on knowing that God has his helping hand on me even if at many times it does not feel like that.

 

[Emmy]

Dear antletemps. Praying is talking to God our Heavenly Father. We tell God that we Love Him and that we want to live for His Glory. We talk to God as we would to our parents, always lovingly and sure of being loved in return. All that is in our hearts we can bring to God our Father, our love and our hope and wishes, our innermost thoughts and dreams.
We can ask for help for family and friends, and God does not overlook our repeated asking and wishes. God Loves us, and God wants loving and trusting men and women. We might stumble and forget at times, but then we ask God to forgive us and Bless us day and night. Let us always remember that God can see our hearts, and God will know whether we ask Him sincerely, or simply repeat some words. I say this with love, antletemps. Greetings from Emmy,
your sister in Christ.

 

[Goatee]

Dear antletemps. Praying is talking to God our Heavenly Father. We tell God that we Love Him and that we want to live for His Glory. We talk to God as we would to our parents, always lovingly and sure of being loved in return. All that is in our hearts we can bring to God our Father, our love and our hope and wishes, our innermost thoughts and dreams.
We can ask for help for family and friends, and God does not overlook our repeated asking and wishes. God Loves us, and God wants loving and trusting men and women. We might stumble and forget at times, but then we ask God to forgive us and Bless us day and night. Let us always remember that God can see our hearts, and God will know whether we ask Him sincerely, or simply repeat some words. I say this with love, antletemps. Greetings from Emmy,
your sister in Christ.

Thank you. Nice post.

I probably tell God i love him multiple times in a day! God is always on my mind. Even when i am fighting my demons.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Thank you. Nice post.

I probably tell God i love him multiple times in a day! God is always on my mind. Even when i am fighting my demons.

I may be oversimplifying things, but I think having God always in one's mind is one of the main purposes of the prayers we are given by the Church.