praying in tongues glossolia

[Goatee]

Well I am saying "any old jibberish" haha. You see, it's not about what I say, but about communing with God spirit to Spirit.

No disrespect but One can commune in normal language without made up gibberish.

Matthew 6:5-6
5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you

 

[YouAreAwesome]

I would take the teaching you have received with a large pinch of salt. Over the last few decades a lot of bad teaching has been introduced on this subject.

There is certainly a physiological phenomenon which linguists called glossolalia whereby the human tongue can go into 'autopilot' and can put together a string of random syllables that sounds like a strange language. It has been well studied and documented by professional linguists such as Dr. William Samarin. His conclusion is "There is no mystery about glossolalia. Tape recorded samples are easy to obtain and to analyze. They always turn out to be the same things: strings of syllables made up of sounds taken from among all those that the speaker knows, put together more or less haphazardly but which nevertheless emerge as word-like or sentence-like units......When the full apparatus of linguistic science comes to bear on glossolalia this turns out to be only a facade of language......And it has already been established that no special power needs to take over a person's vocal organs; all of us are equipped with everything we need to produce glossolalia.....In fact, anybody can produce glossolalia if he is uninhibited and if he discovers what the 'trick' is.."

Modern day glossolalia is not the gift of tongues of the New Testament. There is only one description of the gift (Acts 2:4-11) and it is clearly the miraculous ability to speak a foreign human language that has not been previously learned. Nowhere in scripture is it redefined as a non-human 'heavenly' language or anything else. Throughout church history, from the Church Fathers to the great Victorian theologians, tongues has always been regarded as foreign languages. Only since the advent of Pentecostalism and the charismatic movement in the twentieth century has the idea been propagated that tongues is a 'heavenly' language so as to accommodate their experience of glossolalia.

First, science can not measure the strength of a persons spirit (to bring down strongholds, or preach the gospel in power etc).

Second, I have experienced two different types of speaking in tongues. The rare experience is absolutely supernatural. So much so that I had completely lost control over my tongue (at any point I could have taken that control back, but the joy and worship of God that I felt my spirit expressing was beyond anything I'd ever experienced). The other, is an act of faith whereby I direct my heart and spirit towards God in worship and pray to Him without the use of formal words, just "jibberish" and "groanings". This second type of experience, on the surface, would appear far less "spiritual" but I have found both types of experiences are incredibly helpful.

 

[Goatee]

First, science can not measure the strength of a persons spirit (to bring down strongholds, or preach the gospel in power etc).

Second, I have experienced two different types of speaking in tongues. The rare experience is absolutely supernatural. So much so that I had completely lost control over my tongue (at any point I could have taken that control back, but the joy and worship of God that I felt my spirit expressing was beyond anything I'd ever experienced). The other, is an act of faith whereby I direct my heart and spirit towards God in worship and pray to Him without the use of formal words, just "jibberish" and "groanings". This second type of experience, on the surface, would appear far less "spiritual" but I have found both types of experiences are incredibly helpful.

Could have been evil spirits controlling you!!!

Be very careful buddy.

 

[YouAreAwesome]

No disrespect but One can commune in normal language without made up gibberish.

Matthew 6:5-6
5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you

My thinking is that the use of normal language involves a certain part of the brain while speaking in tongues involves a different part of the brain (as science has shown). So they are not the same thing, and this is important. Speaking from the spirit, without "normal words" allows for a different type of communion with God.

 

[YouAreAwesome]

Could have been evil spirits controlling you!!!

Be very careful buddy.

Yes, that would be a possibility, however during the experience I just felt so HAPPY and just wanted to WORSHIP GOD like never before.

 

[Goatee]

My thinking is that the use of normal language involves a certain part of the brain while speaking in tongues involves a different part of the brain (as science has shown). So they are not the same thing, and this is important. Speaking from the spirit, without "normal words" allows for a different type of communion with God.

Clutching at straws now then?

 

[Goatee]

Yes, that would be a possibility, however during the experience I just felt so HAPPY and just wanted to WORSHIP GOD like never before.

Devil can still do that

 

[YouAreAwesome]

Clutching at straws now then?

Hows that?

 

[YouAreAwesome]

Devil can still do that

The Devil would want me to worship God?

 

[Goatee]

The Devil would want me to worship God?

Yes, of course! If he is controlling you, yes!

 

[Goatee]

I just want people to be careful. Thats all.

 

[Biblicist]

Not ashamed as that is how i see it. Much like how you see us Catholics and our belief in Mary, Our Holy Mother!

I suppose the main difference between you and me is that even though I see the adoration and worship of dead people and 'Mary' as being idolotrous and wicked, I am fully aware that there are many brothers and sisters within Roman Catholicsm who are Born Again and full of the Spirit of God, where amazingly some of these people are even caught up with praying to dead people.

On the other hand, I am certainly aware that there are many within Roman Catholicsm who have no understanding of Spiritual matters, where these sort of people also exist within both Evangelicalism and Pentecostalism as well, but a line is certainly crossed when you declare that the Person and Ministry of the Holy Spirit is demonic. Unlike yourself, I am always wary of attributing even the work of the numerous charlatan or questionable 'ministries' within my ranks to that of the devil, as I am well aware that even questionable individuals can still have the Holy Spirit working through them, even if only on the odd occassion.

This is why we all need to keep Matthew 12:31-32 in mind;

Therefore I tell you, people will be forgiven for every sin and blasphemy, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.​

Leaving aside my Evangelical brothers and sisters, I am of the strong opinion that for those who have experienced the things of the Spirit such as tongues, prophecy, healings etc, when they turn away from the Lord by repudiating the Person and Ministry of the Holy Spirit, even when they try to repent of their sin I suspect that there is often no value in their repentance.

 

[YouAreAwesome]

I just want people to be careful. Thats all.

Yes. I agree. Skepticism has it's place.

For me, I had just spent Saturday and Sunday at a Holy Spirit conference of worship, prayer, and bible teaching. I was involved in running it. I was introducing speakers and preaching 5 minute segments here and there throughout both days. At the end of the time I was very exhausted. A young man asked what I would like prayer for. I told him I would like to speak in tongues (because I had been studying it and decided it was a gift available to anyone who wants it). He prayed and I just started speaking in tongues in a supernatural way. It's an experience that stands out in my journey as a highlight with regards to the supernatural work of God. It really was quite amazing. It was so amazing I was laughing at the same time, just so thankful and happy that God was giving this to me. I just felt thankfulness and worship.

I realise not everyone has this kind of journey. And I don't believe it is a necessity for all believers. But I just want all the help I can get!

 

[Goatee]

I suppose the main difference between you and me is that even though I see the adoration and worship of dead people and 'Mary' as being idolotrous and wicked, I am fully aware that there are many brothers and sisters within Roman Catholicsm who are Born Again and full of the Spirit of God, where amazingly some of these people are even caught up with praying to dead people.

On the other hand, I am certainly aware that there are many within Roman Catholicsm who have no understanding of Spiritual matters, where these sort of people also exist within both Evangelicalism and Pentecostalism as well, but a line is certainly crossed when you declare that the Person and Ministry of the Holy Spirit is demonic. Unlike yourself, I am always wary of attributing even the work of the numerous charlatan or questionable 'ministries' within my ranks to that of the devil, as I am well aware that even questionable individuals can still have the Holy Spirit working through them, even if only on the odd occassion.

This is why we all need to keep Matthew 12:31-32 in mind;

Therefore I tell you, people will be forgiven for every sin and blasphemy, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.​

Leaving aside my Evangelical brothers and sisters, I am of the strong opinion that for those who have experienced the things of the Spirit such as tongues, prophecy, healings etc, when they turn away from the Lord by repudiating the Person and Ministry of the Holy Spirit, even when they try to repent of their sin I suspect that there is often no value in their repentance.

It can only be blasphemy against the Holy Spirit if one is addressing 'The Holy Spirit'. In my case, i truly believe that what you utter is gibberish and not from the Holy Spirit! You are caught up in something not of God. Sucked in by something evil.

1,000s in a room, all speaking in tongues! Praying!? Really?

Jesus said:

Matthew 6:5-6
5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you

Jesus said to pray in private. Not shout out to everyone! Speaking in tongues the way you do it proves it is not from God! All screaming and wailing gibberish!!! Prayer? No way!!

 

[Goatee]

Yes. I agree. Skepticism has it's place.

For me, I had just spent Saturday and Sunday at a Holy Spirit conference of worship, prayer, and bible teaching. I was involved in running it. I was introducing speakers and preaching 5 minute segments here and there throughout both days. At the end of the time I was very exhausted. A young man asked what I would like prayer for. I told him I would like to speak in tongues (because I had been studying it and decided it was a gift available to anyone who wants it). He prayed and I just started speaking in tongues in a supernatural way. It's an experience that stands out in my journey as a highlight with regards to the supernatural work of God. It really was quite amazing. It was so amazing I was laughing at the same time, just so thankful and happy that God was giving this to me. I just felt thankfulness and worship.

I realise not everyone has this kind of journey. And I don't believe it is a necessity for all believers. But I just want all the help I can get!

Ok, but be careful thats all i am saying

 

[YouAreAwesome]

Ok, but be careful thats all i am saying

What do you mean by careful?

This experience occured over 10 years ago. And I still speak in tongues.

 

[Biblicist]

Ok, but be careful thats all i am saying

Even though I had good reason to put in a formal complaint to the forum moderators as none of us have the right to say that someone who we are talking to is demonic, I am certainly well aware that on a public forum such as this that there will be those who fail or even have a desire to communicate in a forthright manner, which is why I let these things slide by.

Considering that I could very well be the most read person on this forum when it comes to First Corinthians and with the Ministry of the Holy Spirit, then I have absolutely no reason to have any concerns as I carefully consider each and every aspect of the Biblical testimony of the Ministry of the Holy Spirit, which is why I endeavour to obtain the best of the best commentaries on this subject.

Even though I consider the practice of praying to dead people and to 'Mary' as being a pagan practice, which in itself probably crosses a few forum rules or guidelines, I know full well that there are many fine Roman Catholic brothers and sisters who are still oddly involved in this practice, but I know that these brothers and sisters are not of the devil, just poorly educated in the Word of God. For that matter, even within Pentecostal and Evangelical circles we often have our own set of both silly practices and doctrines where some I would deem to be abominable before the Lord.

So, may I suggest that you apply a degree of caution when you are speaking on things you obviously have little practical experience with or maybe avoid them altogether.

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

Even though I had good reason to put in a formal complaint to the forum moderators as none of us have the right to say that someone who we are talking to is demonic, I am certainly well aware that on a public forum such as this that there will be those who fail or even have a desire to communicate in a forthright manner, which is why I let these things slide by.

Considering that I could very well be the most read person on this forum when it comes to First Corinthians and with the Ministry of the Holy Spirit, then I have absolutely no reason to have any concerns as I carefully consider each and every aspect of the Biblical testimony of the Ministry of the Holy Spirit, which is why I endeavour to obtain the best of the best commentaries on this subject.

Even though I consider the practice of praying to dead people and to 'Mary' as being a pagan practice, which in itself probably crosses a few forum rules or guidelines, I know full well that there are many fine Roman Catholic brothers and sisters who are still oddly involved in this practice, but I know that these brothers and sisters are not of the devil, just poorly educated in the Word of God. For that matter, even within Pentecostal and Evangelical circles we often have our own set of both silly practices and doctrines where some I would deem to be abominable before the Lord.

So, may I suggest that you apply a degree of caution when you are speaking on things you obviously have little practical experience with or maybe avoid them altogether.

Christ said those who are in him shall never perish or die, so you can't really say they are "dead" except in a worldly sense--and we should all already be dead to the world.

 

[swordsman1]

When I read the first two lines I was beginning to think that you had understood the purpose of Paul's use of Isa 28 where he connected the problem (along with its unintended consequences) with the unintelligibility of the language of the Assyrians with that of the New Covenant use of unintelligible tongues; but then, on line three, you changed the thrust of Paul's admonition by connecting Angelic tongues with that of known human languages. In addition it seems that you have also misunderstood (maybe by choice) why the unarticulated application of unintelligible tongues can unintentionally serve as a tool of judgement to those who do not understand the things of the Spirit.

No. Pauls application of Isaiah's prophecy to Corinthian tongues is clear. Isaiah prophesied that when the Assyrian invaders spoke their foreign language amongst the unbelieving Jews it would be a sign of judgement against them. Paul then applies the same prophecy to the tongues speaking in Corinth indicating that it was same thing. When visiting unbeleiving Jews heard foreign languages spoken they would immediately see it as a sign of judgement and repel them away. If Corinthian tongues was a non-human language the application of Isaiah's prophecy would fail, as the two contexts would be completely different.

The only description of the gift of tongues in Scripture is Acts 2:4-11, foreign human languages. It is hard to believe that we would be given such a thorough description of the gift if this was to be the exception rather than the rule. Nowhere in scripture is the gift redefined as the language of angels or anything else. In the absence of any such redefinition it must be assumed that other references to tongues are the same thing as Acts 2. Otherwise you are fallaciously imposing your own ideas onto the biblical text. Another principle of bible interpretation is that less clear passages (1 Cor) are interpreted in the light of clearer ones (Acts 2).

As Luke, the author of Acts, was a close companion of Paul he would have known whether the tongues of Pentecost and Corinth were two different things. If they were then Luke would have made the distinction clear, rather than causing confusion. Yet he doesn't. Instead when he wrote Acts 2 he uses the exact same terminology as Paul does in 1 Corinthians (glossa, laleo, etc)

If the tongues of 1 Corinthians is the language of angels then why is the word tongues mostly in the plural? How many different languages do angels have? Was there a Tower of Babel event in heaven as well as on earth?

 

[rockytopva]

I teach the doctrine of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit in metaphor to the Hebrew temple. I have got this doctrine from William Seymour, pioneer of the Pentecostal revival...

1. Outer Gates - Justification by Faith
2. Altar - Salvation through Christ Jesus
3. Laver - "Sanctification makes us clean on the inside." - William Seymour
4. Table of Shewbread - And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. - 2 Timothy 3:16
5. Lampstand - Spiritual light and energy... Faith, hope, charity, goodness, warmth, love, joy, etc. As you dwell in this place you ought to develop a greater love for people!
6. Altar Golden Incense - Praise, prayer, church, etc...
7. Holy of Holies - The shekinah glory and baptism in the Holy Spirit

This is basically Methodist doctrine. The people of this school would not let you claim the Holy Spirit until they sensed a sweet spirit. They would tell you that you do not have no Holy Spirit, come back tomorrow night. But once you "came through" every one would know about it.