Practicing Orthodox spirituality within RCC

[ArmyMatt]

Thats not a given. Besides, i have a terrible singing voice! Lol

oh no, it's a given. heaven is one nonstop Church service.

 

[Lost4words]

oh no, it's a given. heaven is one nonstop Church service.

I disagree. Its not a fact. Can you quote where it says 'everybody' that goes to heaven is involved in a non stop church service?

I believe all who go to heaven will worship God. As for doing it like a "one nonstop church service" i have to disagree. Worship can take different forms.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I disagree. Its not a fact. Can you quote where it says 'everybody' that goes to heaven is involved in a non stop church service?

I believe all who go to heaven will worship God. As for doing it like a "one nonstop church service" i have to disagree. Worship can take different forms.

well, every vision of heaven in Scripture, from Genesis to Revelation, what's going on is worship. what you see is Liturgy. Moses was given the pattern for the Tabernacle based on what he saw in heaven, which then became the plan for the Temple, and then historic Christian worship.

the only evidence we have been given is that heaven is one eternal worship service.

 

[Lost4words]

well, every vision of heaven in Scripture, from Genesis to Revelation, what's going on is worship. what you see is Liturgy. Moses was given the pattern for the Tabernacle based on what he saw in heaven, which then became the plan for the Temple, and then historic Christian worship.

the only evidence we have been given is that heaven is one eternal worship service.

I know but, as time is probably irrelevant in heaven, i dont see as 'one stop church service' being indefinite or eternal. Daily worship, yes. I agree. It doesnt say in scripture that 'all' time in heaven is worship.

Plus, interpreting scripture is not straight forward is it?

 

[ArmyMatt]

I know but, as time is probably irrelevant in heaven, i dont see as 'one stop church service' being indefinite or eternal. Daily worship, yes. I agree. It doesnt say in scripture that 'all' time in heaven is worship.

Plus, interpreting scripture is not straight forward is it?

there are no days in heaven, so daily worship is eternal worship. you can't say daily worship, when Revelation says there is no more sun and moon.

the only example of what we do in heaven is worship of God, and that is what the Litrurgy is. so, yeah, one cosmic eternal Church service involving all of the created order.

 

[Lost4words]

there are no days in heaven, so daily worship is eternal worship. you can't say daily worship, when Revelation says there is no more sun and moon.

the only example of what we do in heaven is worship of God, and that is what the Litrurgy is. so, yeah, one cosmic eternal Church service involving all of the created order.

Well, thats your take on it. I dont see it quite like that.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Well, thats your take on it. I dont see it quite like that.

well, you have not given anything from Scripture or history to the contrary. you have only said that you disagree.

 

[Lost4words]

well, you have not given anything from Scripture or history to the contrary. you have only said that you disagree.

I know we will be worshipping. I guess it will be unimaginable. The awe etc. If i get there i guess i will find out! Lol

 

[ArmyMatt]

I know we will be worshipping. I guess it will be unimaginable. The awe etc. If i get there i guess i will find out! Lol

correct, correct, correct, and may we all be so blessed!

 

[Lukaris]

This passage from Confessions really stood out to me:

"So I waver between the danger that lies in gratifying the senses and the benefits which, as I know from experience, can accrue from singing. Without committing myself to an irrevocable opinion, I am inclined to approve of the custom of singing in church, in order that by indulging the ears weaker spirits may be inspired with feelings of devotion. Yet when I find the singing itself more moving than the truth which it conveys, I confess that this is a grievous sin, and at those times I would prefer not to hear the singer."

Here is the link to the whole piece: Augustine’s Inner Conflict about Music | internetmonk.com

In Confessions he does not seem to suggest we should sing everything, nor ditch it all. I am constantly reminded that writings of prominent names like Augustine are not equal to the Apostles. I consider the Didache to be a better source for early worship guidance than things of 250 years later, and I don't think it says anything of singing or music as part of the liturgy.

A bit off topic, but I remember the late Michael Spencer (“Internet Monk”) that you have linked. I know he was not Orthodox but he was a good Christian & very thoughtful in his expression.

 

[Markie Boy]

A bit off topic, but I remember the late Michael Spencer (“Internet Monk”) that you have linked. I know he was not Orthodox but he was a good Christian & very thoughtful in his expression.

Thanks - I didn't know much about him.

 

[GaveMeJoy]

no, because you still need Orthodox sacramental life.

Can you explain what Orthodox sacramental life means? I’m not Orthodox

 

[ArmyMatt]

Can you explain what Orthodox sacramental life means? I’m not Orthodox

participating in the sacraments, and all that comes with that (fasting, prayer, almsgiving, repentance, etc)

 

[PilgrimMichelangelo]

Before jumping ship from Rome to Constantinople or Moscow I would take a step back and consider why you would be converting: would it be for the Truth of Orthodoxy or for its seemingly exotic and alluring spirituality? The exotic allure wears off very quickly and leaves one with the realization that Orthodoxy is just simple Apostolic Christianity in ethnic garb. True, she seems to have preserved and developed a unique system of asceticism that did not completely transplant or develop in the West, but the reality is we are weak Christians in weak times, and very few of us can live up to that ascetic calling that the early Christians lived (and even if we could it would probably do greater spiritual harm than good).

As a convert to Orthodoxy from Anglicanism who deeply regrets not fully investigating the Roman Catholic tradition before making my decision, the grass is not greener over here if you are discouraged with Church politics, because Byzantine intrigue is alive and well in Orthodoxy just as Jesuitical plots abound within Rome's hallowed halls. There is no perfect Church on Earth, just the Church Militant battling to become the Church Triumphant, and war as they say is Hell---that's why there are so many spiritual casualties and the Churches both Eastern and Western appear to be beleaguered at all times.

I would agree with @zippy2006 and stress a thorough investigation of Eastern Catholicism before prayerfully considering Orthodoxy. Because once you become Orthodox there really is no going back, without terrible spiritual consequences.

 

[ArmyMatt]

there is a perfect Church, the Orthodox Church because only in Orthodoxy has the Faith actually been maintained usually in spite of her sinful members.

I do agree that you shouldn't convert because Orthodoxy looks cool or exotic, but because she has maintained the Apostolic Faith. (and for this reason, I gotta also say, it'd be better to be Latin Rite than Eastern Rite Catholic).

 

[Not David]

Before jumping ship from Rome to Constantinople or Moscow I would take a step back and consider why you would be converting: would it be for the Truth of Orthodoxy or for its seemingly exotic and alluring spirituality? The exotic allure wears off very quickly and leaves one with the realization that Orthodoxy is just simple Apostolic Christianity in ethnic garb. True, she seems to have preserved and developed a unique system of asceticism that did not completely transplant or develop in the West, but the reality is we are weak Christians in weak times, and very few of us can live up to that ascetic calling that the early Christians lived (and even if we could it would probably do greater spiritual harm than good).

As a convert to Orthodoxy from Anglicanism who deeply regrets not fully investigating the Roman Catholic tradition before making my decision, the grass is not greener over here if you are discouraged with Church politics, because Byzantine intrigue is alive and well in Orthodoxy just as Jesuitical plots abound within Rome's hallowed halls. There is no perfect Church on Earth, just the Church Militant battling to become the Church Triumphant, and war as they say is Hell---that's why there are so many spiritual casualties and the Churches both Eastern and Western appear to be beleaguered at all times.

I would agree with @zippy2006 and stress a thorough investigation of Eastern Catholicism before prayerfully considering Orthodoxy. Because once you become Orthodox there really is no going back, without terrible spiritual consequences.

That sounds like Christian objectivitism.

 

[PilgrimMichelangelo]

That sounds like Christian objectivitism.

Forgive me, but could you clarify? I don't understand what you mean...or how it is relevant to the conversation....

 

[Markie Boy]

there is a perfect Church, the Orthodox Church because only in Orthodoxy has the Faith actually been maintained usually in spite of her sinful members.

I do agree that you shouldn't convert because Orthodoxy looks cool or exotic, but because she has maintained the Apostolic Faith. (and for this reason, I gotta also say, it'd be better to be Latin Rite than Eastern Rite Catholic).

I'm puzzled - why would it be better to be Latin Rite than Eastern Rite Catholic?

 

[ArmyMatt]

I'm puzzled - why would it be better to be Latin Rite than Eastern Rite Catholic?

because Eastern Rite looks and sounds like Orthodoxy, but is outside of the Orthodox communion. it's very deceptive.

 

[Not David]

Forgive me, but could you clarify? I don't understand what you mean...or how it is relevant to the conversation....

*Subjectivism.

Because it sounds like the “Invisible Church” theory.