polyamory?

[Ledifni]

No weapon formed against me shall prosper. Isaiah 54:17

Care to put that to a practical test (yes, yes, guys, I'm just kidding -- little as I like Zaac, I wouldn't actually kill him)?

 

[Ben Borg Again]

For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 5But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry. 2 Timothy 4:3-5

Ledifni, amazingly enough, God's Truth is not given based upon someone's interest in receiving it.

Zaac, while I am sick and tired of debating theology, I cannot help but to rememeber that in Jesuses culture, man-boy relationships were rampant and culturly acceptable. Rememebr the story of the boy servant and his Roman Soldier master whom Jesus healed? Yet Jesus never mentioned ONCE the immorality of man-boy love that was so common with roman soldiers and their preteen male servants. If you feel compelled to do so, go ahead and search greek and Roman soldier culture. It was so common you would probably be shocked.

While personaly I think the whole boy-man love thing is absolutly discusting, maybe you should consider Jesus had multiple chances to condemn such activity, but did not feel compelled to do so exspecially when the Roman Soldier aproached Jesus to heal his boy servent... So when you tell me Jesus doesnt want me to be in polymgamy, I cannot help but to rememeber what JEsus DIDNT talk about, which can be as enlightening as what JEsus DID talk about.

 

[Zaac]

Care to put that to a practical test (yes, yes, guys, I'm just kidding -- little as I like Zaac, I wouldn't actually kill him)?

As little as you like me, I've still got nothing but love for ya.

 

[Ben Borg Again]

Let's ask Ben Borg Again: Did you imagine when you posted this that Jesus would approve? Are you glad Zaac reminded you that his mythological litmus test might dissaprove?

sorry I have only gotten this far now trying to respond to all the replys. anyway yea I responded a few posts up from this one.

 

[Spinrad]

It's OK, it was rhetorical, really.

 

[Zaac]

Zaac, while I am sick and tired of debating theology, I cannot help but to rememeber that in Jesuses culture, man-boy relationships were rampant and culturly acceptable. Rememebr the story of the boy servant and his Roman Soldier master whom Jesus healed? Yet Jesus never mentioned ONCE the immorality of man-boy love that was so common with roman soldiers and their preteen male servants. If you feel compelled to do so, go ahead and search greek and Roman soldier culture. It was so common you would probably be shocked.

I'm not shocked at all. There are lots of things that Jesus did not address, at least in His 33 years of ministry. There was no need to address that for which God has already provided a Word.

There's no need to debate theology. All I ask is that you search your heart for in your heart you KNOW that there is NOTHING right about this setup. And it remains VERY SELFISH of your wife to suggest such a thing.

While personaly I think the whole boy-man love thing is absolutly discusting, maybe you should consider Jesus had multiple chances to condemn such activity, but did not feel compelled to do so exspecially when the Roman Soldier aproached Jesus to heal his boy servent... So when you tell me Jesus doesnt want me to be in polymgamy, I cannot help but to rememeber what JEsus DIDNT talk about, which can be as enlightening as what JEsus DID talk about.

Jesus didn't address a lot of things for which the people already knew the law. He came to be a testament that there was freedom from sin to be found in Him, not just to rehash laws. But He did speak to adultery. 8Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery." Matthew 19:8-9

Marital unfaithfulness is what will take place if you or your wife has sex with anyone else. It doesn't matter if you're both in the room . It's still wrong and you know that it's wrong.

 

[Ben Borg Again]

I'm not shocked at all. There are lots of things that Jesus did not address, at least in His 33 years of ministry. There was no need to address that for which God has already provided a Word.

There's no need to debate theology. All I ask is that you search your heart for in your heart you KNOW that there is NOTHING right about this setup. And it remains VERY SELFISH of your wife to suggest such a thing.



Jesus didn't address a lot of things for which the people already knew the law. He came to be a testament that there was freedom from sin to be found in Him, not just to rehash laws. But He did speak to adultery. 8Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery." Matthew 19:8-9

Marital unfaithfulness is what will take place if you or your wife has sex with anyone else. It doesn't matter if you're both in the room . It's still wrong and you know that it's wrong.

Jesus also said there is NO DIFFERENCE between commiting adultry in you mind or doing it for real. SO assuming you are a normal male how many times have you commited adultery in your heart by lusting after another woman?
1000? 10,000 times? How many times have you commited adultury just walking thru the mall? 10, 20? What about just watching TV in one evening that uses sex to sell products? Have you ever masturbated? If you say NO, then I wouldnt believe you.
If Jesus himself said you commit adultury by lusting. And assuming your a normal male with biological drives, then truth is, your have commited adultury I am guessing hundreds of times over????

So come on over to my house and we will help each other extract that log that is impaled in your eye.

anyway, thanks for your opinion. honestly. I value it even if I dont agree, because you represent a huge cross section of christian culture. Your opinions represent the christian opinions of many many people.

 

[chris_J_N]

i am gonna put some more proof why this is a bad idea rather than just saying the bible says it's bad. first off in todays culture it is illegal to have more than 1 spouse. second the system our goverment is set up in can't support people who do this and they end up homeless. last it doesn't give you a very good rep. in the OT they did this cause it was custom to their culture. in todays world it is just crazy.

 

[Hungry Hungry Hippo]

I once committed adultery 6,840 times in one weekend.

 

[Hungry Hungry Hippo]

Oh, and Ben, I can't tell you what to do, but I would not enter a romantic relationship with more than one other person. I don't know all the details, but it seems like it would inevitably become a messy situation. Think 5, 10, years from now, will you look back and think yopu made the right choice?

 

[.Mikha'el.]

I once committed adultery 6,840 times in one weekend.

Why would you need to count?

 

[Seeking...]

I have recently discovered my bi-sexual wife wants to pursue a polyamor relationship, Which is basically a live-in long term closed commited relationship between 3 people ( 2 women & 1 guy) which includes sexual relationship between all three partners. and sharing parenting and financial responsibilities. As compared to polygamy which the wives are not nessesaraly bi-sexual.

What do you think? Any expereinces with this? positive? negative?
It is completely new territory for me, My wife and I married 10 years, friends for 15, have stayed monogamous and are absolutly commited best friends

What if your son, daughter,coworker, neighbor was involved in such a relationship, what would be your reaction and how would it affect your relationships with them?

This is a great paper on the subject listing what phycology knows about the subject, the pros and cons, mental issues and so forth....
" WHat Phycology proffessionals should know about Polyamory."

I don't have a problem with polyamorous relationships - I'd prefer one myself; however, your particular situation concerns me. I don't believe it is something anyone should do unless all partners are equally desirous and committed and this seems like something you'd just go along with to make your wife happy. It is also distressing that you'd make this change so deep into your relationship. If this were to be a truly polyamorous relationship, some new chick would have equal footing with you and your wife - would you be able to adjust to someone else being equal to you in your wife's eyes? Would your wife feel comfortable with you truly developing a close relationship with someone she is expecting so much from? I even have concerns over her desire for such a relationship, a femal lover and a close friend are not the same. My relationship with my mother is difficult at best and most women in platonic friendships annoy me - having a women intimately involved in my life doesn't resolve the need for those types of relationships.

A desire for a polyamorous relationship shouldn't be the need to fill a void, it should just seem natural to you. All of the intertwining relationships should be meeting mutual needs.

I'm not sure that an additional partner would meet anyone's needs in this situation.

 

[Ben Borg Again]

Oh, and Ben, I can't tell you what to do, but I would not enter a romantic relationship with more than one other person. I don't know all the details, but it seems like it would inevitably become a messy situation. Think 5, 10, years from now, will you look back and think yopu made the right choice?

thanks, I dont know if it would a good thing 5-10 years down the road, I have no idea. I guess the best thing to do would be to look for others with the same expereince, to get their advice.

 

[Ben Borg Again]

I don't have a problem with polyamorous relationships - I'd prefer one myself; however, your particular situation concerns me. I don't believe it is something anyone should do unless all partners are equally desirous and committed and this seems like something you'd just go along with to make your wife happy. It is also distressing that you'd make this change so deep into your relationship. If this were to be a truly polyamorous relationship, some new chick would have equal footing with you and your wife -

I dont know if I am just "going along with my wife" or not. It was her idea yes.
At the same time i could imagine myself not having problems with it. But I know there is a huge difference between imagination and reality.

why do you think the fact that my wife and I have been together for 15 years would cause a tri-relationship like this more likely to fail?
thanks for the input.

would you be able to adjust to someone else being equal to you in your wife's eyes?

I dont know, if my wife was happy with it, it would make me happy.

Would your wife feel comfortable with you truly developing a close relationship with someone she is expecting so much from?

I would say I dont think jealousy would be an issue. It may be, I am not sure. My wife is not "normal" in that she is gay/bi and the thought of me being with another woman turns her on ( just to use an example, but I dont want to talk about sex), even though I have not ever been with another woman. I cant explain why it would turn her on to see me with another woman.. I dont even understand it myself.
Cuz it sure would NOT turn me on to see her with another guy.

I even have concerns over her desire for such a relationship, a femal lover and a close friend are not the same.

yes I understand, but cant it be both too? I mean if its a friendship that naturaly leads to sex?

My relationship with my mother is difficult at best and most women in platonic friendships annoy me - having a women intimately involved in my life doesn't resolve the need for those types of relationships.

A desire for a polyamorous relationship shouldn't be the need to fill a void, it should just seem natural to you. All of the intertwining relationships should be meeting mutual needs.

Yes mutual needs should be met. I suppose it depends upon the individual personality types.

I'm not sure that an additional partner would meet anyone's needs in this situation.

I dont know, that is my delimma

 

[Ben Borg Again]

i am gonna put some more proof why this is a bad idea rather than just saying the bible says it's bad. first off in todays culture it is illegal to have more than 1 spouse.

Sorry,
I dont take in consideration the legality of the situation. I break laws all the time and I dont feel bad about it, as long as I am not hurting others, it doesnt bother me that i would be breaking the law, unless by breaking a a law that is hurting another person, business, or violating someones freedom and rights, or sucking resources away from the state. If all of the above dont apply, then I dont recognize the legality of the situtation and it has no determination for me whether or not it is a Moral Act.

second the system our goverment is set up in can't support people who do this and they end up homeless.

really? I was thinking the opposite effect. That is pooled money and resources, less money spent on house and utilities. More time with the kids, and less babysitting. Its seems a group relationship would have a positive impact from a strictly financial perspective. 3 working adults in the home can increase financial resourses considerably

last it doesn't give you a very good rep.

Yes I am certian this would have to be kept secret from society and family.

in the OT they did this cause it was custom to their culture. in todays world it is just crazy.

christian cultural relativism vs. Absolute ethics?
Im kidding, I am so sick of debates. I am not trying to start an argument.
I know what you mean though.
I just thought it was funny you labeled it as "crazy" ( pathological is the offical word) useing your own culture as the relative standard to determine that it is crazy in the first place.

 

[Seeking...]

Perhaps there are rare individuals for whom polyamory would work (if "work" means a stable long-term relationship), but I can't see most people managing it. Having a relationship with one person is challenge enough.

I know that, at least for me, it would never work. I am a deep person who needs for a relationship to have romantic meaning, and exclusivity is a necessary requirement of this. I can't make myself so shallow that I could divide my romantic focus to more than one woman. So polyamory is out for me.

Who knows? Maybe there are naturally polyamorous people, just as there are natural gays. Maybe it's part of human diversity.

emphasis mine...

Ouch, I feel inadvertently stung! I can understand your viewpoint that exclusivity is a neccesary requirement for you to have romantic meaning in a relationship, but why must you suggest that someone who can divide their focus is so shallow...

I am neither a puddle nor a bottomless well, but I am capable of multiple intimate relationships that generally have a different basis for existence and meet different needs. I have always maintained monogamy in order to adhere to society's mores, but it is not truly where my heart lies - nor is monogamy a particular strong suit of the men I suit best. I simply have never bought in to the concept that we could be everything to another person that they need. I don't think it is a fault, or a weakness, or a problem if you engage in relationships with people who are like you.

My ideal relationship would look like this. Two hetero base couples, these would be priority relationships, these would be the biological parent groups. I think most people need to be #1 to someone on some level and that need would be served here. All 4 members would be bisexual. All members would have committed relationships with each other with varying levels of emotional, phsyical, and spiritual intimacy. Sex within the group would be allowed in any configuration, sex outside of the group would be prohibited. All typical family responsibilities would be shared among the four adults. I see 1 on 1 relationships as being very restrictive in ways that are not healthy for the people involved at times (IMHO - for me at least). I honestly see the additional pairings as fulfilling more emotional needs than sexual.

I don't imagine that these types of relationships could or should work for everyone. It doesn't neccesarily follow that only the shallow would be interested in them though.

 

[sparklecat]

Perhaps you should just focus on getting to know the woman in question and see how things develop from there, keeping in mind the possibility for having something more than friendship with her.

 

[Ben Borg Again]

thats an intersting perspective SEEKING, I have never met another would thinks TWO couples would be ideal, I dont think the thought has ever crossed my mind before in my 33 years of living.

Anyway, I have a hard time determining if Eudaimonists perpective is because of insecurity and low self esteem or the the tendancy to be co dependant, or if he has a valid point. I dont know. the very few friends I do have who seem to be happily married, yet have open relationships, are by far the most confident and secure people I know.. to the point that it becomes a weakness if you know what I mean... , yet these people ( well one couple I am good friends with) seem perfectly happy in their marraige and have absolutly no problems with their partners sleeping around. I never have seen one episode of jelousy, While I think there is a big difference between polymagomy and open relationships.

Open relationship in my marrage is not something I could handle and it would cause huge problems and divorce for sure.

The same seems to apply as far as jelousy and security issues go.
What I mean is, this married couple I know, who sleep around with whoever they want. They are very unusual in that they display complete and total lack of jelousy and insecurity about themselves.

Most of the time I think it is a strength of character, not a weakness.
Honestly I have never met a couple so HAPPY for lack of a better word.

 

[Seeking...]

I dont know if I am just "going along with my wife" or not. It was her idea yes.
At the same time i could imagine myself not having problems with it. But I know there is a huge difference between imagination and reality.

My point really is that this is not an equal desire of yours. To make that large of a change to your life, it should be something you both want.

why do you think the fact that my wife and I have been together for 15 years would cause a tri-relationship like this more likely to fail?
thanks for the input.

Because you have already developed ways of being with each other that would make an additional party seem like an interloper. You have a rhythum to life with your wife that you are not completely conscious of - as a result, I see an additional person as being more disruptive and possibly destructive. Add to that - this relationship isn't something that all parties seem to want.
If you had been together for a shorter period of time - it could be something that you would all grow into together. What you will probably end up with is a situation in which the 3rd party will try to fit in where she can to your pre-existing situation (leaving her to favor your wife and resent you) and you will experience loss as your wife explores something new that you are not 100% into... (just an opinion)

I dont know, if my wife was happy with it, it would make me happy.

Maybe true, maybe not. There are things that make our spouses happy which do not always make us happy. If it did - no one would divorce.

I would say I dont think jealousy would be an issue. It may be, I am not sure. My wife is not "normal" in that she is gay/bi and the thought of me being with another woman turns her on ( just to use an example, but I dont want to talk about sex), even though I have not ever been with another woman. I cant explain why it would turn her on to see me with another woman.. I dont even understand it myself.
Cuz it sure would NOT turn me on to see her with another guy.

It isn't about sexual jealousy. You stated that your wife truly feels a loss over not having close female relationships and wants this to make up for it. Your wife might be comfortable with seeing you sexually with another person, but what if you developed an emotional bond as well? What if you started sharing with this new woman thoughts, feelings, experiences, etc. that you had previously shared only with your wife? What if the time you spent with this woman took away from the time your wife wanted to spend with her, or you? You've discussed this all as primarily being about your wife's needs - what if she wasn't the center of attention for the both of you?

As for the sex stuff - I'm not "normal" either. I'm bi as I previously stated. I would not want to see a woman I cared about with another person - though I'd be fine if I just knew that it was happening - it would not turn me on. It would turn me on to see my man with another man or with a woman I was not involved with (though I would not take part). I don't have difficulty sharing people physically - there are however, emotional boundaries that I would draw.

yes I understand, but cant it be both too? I mean if its a friendship that naturaly leads to sex?

I might be the wrong person to ask. My most satisfying female friendships have never and are highly unlikely to lead to a physically intimate relationship. My friends are like me, just like me - while my girlfriends can never be quite that similar, otherwise there would be no balance to our relationship. My friendships and my relationships are not interchangable in the slightest. Sometimes those aspects of a person that makes them a great friend negates them as something else.

Yes mutual needs should be met. I suppose it depends upon the individual personality types.

Yeah, mutual needs must be met and you haven't even expressed a need for any of this.

I dont know, that is my delimma

 

[.Mikha'el.]

It is written in 1 Corinthians 7:2 "But because of sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her own husband."

That is enough for me to believe that polyamourous or polygamous relationships are sinful.