polyamory?

[BarbB]

Ben Borg Again - this potential situation concerns me as relates to your daughter. Do you have any concerns about her?

 

[Seeking...]

thats an intersting perspective SEEKING, I have never met another would thinks TWO couples would be ideal, I dont think the thought has ever crossed my mind before in my 33 years of living.

I can love multiple people simultaniously and enourmously, but not equally. I need to be number #1 to someone and to be their priority as well. That is why I thought of couple relationships. 2 bisexual couples with interwoven bonds seemed perfect to me - it is a cross between a relationship and a mini commune. I thought of all the things needed in intimate adult relationships and in families as well. This would be a familial unit that would have the focus of maintaining healthy adult relationships in order to raise healthy, happy, well-adjusted children.

 

[Thor11]

I have recently discovered my bi-sexual wife wants to pursue a polyamor relationship, Which is basically a live-in long term closed commited relationship between 3 people ( 2 women & 1 guy) which includes sexual relationship between all three partners. and sharing parenting and financial responsibilities. As compared to polygamy which the wives are not nessesaraly bi-sexual.

What do you think? Any expereinces with this? positive? negative?
It is completely new territory for me, My wife and I married 10 years, friends for 15, have stayed monogamous and are absolutly commited best friends

What if your son, daughter,coworker, neighbor was involved in such a relationship, what would be your reaction and how would it affect your relationships with them?

This is a great paper on the subject listing what phycology knows about the subject, the pros and cons, mental issues and so forth....
" WHat Phycology proffessionals should know about Polyamory."



http://www.polyamory.org/~joe/polypaper.htm

If you like the idea and it's fine for all 3 of you, then go for it. I personally dislike the idea, but that's just me and my life's philoshopies don't apply to you.

 

[chris_J_N]

If you like the idea and it's fine for all 3 of you, then go for it. I personally dislike the idea, but that's just me and my life's philoshopies don't apply to you.

i would agree here ben. the reason why i said what i said is not because i thought it was wrong but because it just doesn't seem worth it. it seems like you would get more trouble than good out of it. thats the point i was trying to make.

 

[Ben Borg Again]

My point really is that this is not an equal desire of yours. To make that large of a change to your life, it should be something you both want.

yes I agree. %100

Because you have already developed ways of being with each other that would make an additional party seem like an interloper. You have a rhythum to life with your wife that you are not completely conscious of - as a result, I see an additional person as being more disruptive and possibly destructive. Add to that - this relationship isn't something that all parties seem to want.
If you had been together for a shorter period of time - it could be something that you would all grow into together. What you will probably end up with is a situation in which the 3rd party will try to fit in where she can to your pre-existing situation (leaving her to favor your wife and resent you) and you will experience loss as your wife explores something new that you are not 100% into... (just an opinion)

I never thought about the jealousy thing ,that the other woman may feel resentment towards me

It isn't about sexual jealousy. You stated that your wife truly feels a loss over not having close female relationships and wants this to make up for it. Your wife might be comfortable with seeing you sexually with another person, but what if you developed an emotional bond as well? What if you started sharing with this new woman thoughts, feelings, experiences, etc. that you had previously shared only with your wife? What if the time you spent with this woman took away from the time your wife wanted to spend with her, or you? You've discussed this all as primarily being about your wife's needs - what if she wasn't the center of attention for the both of you?

I dont know, Its a tough choice. I dont know if I am denying my wifes gayness, if I was to forbid her to have a relationship with another woman. If its fair for her or me. One part of me thinks she is an individual and should be free to do whatever she wants, to follow her feelings, another part of me wants to control her. again I dont know who would be selfish.

As for the sex stuff - I'm not "normal" either. I'm bi as I previously stated. I would not want to see a woman I cared about with another person - though I'd be fine if I just knew that it was happening - it would not turn me on. It would turn me on to see my man with another man or with a woman I was not involved with (though I would not take part). I don't have difficulty sharing people physically - there are however, emotional boundaries that I would draw.

thanks for your input. I dont know how to comment on this because I am so inexpereinced. But I am listening to you.

I might be the wrong person to ask. My most satisfying female friendships have never and are highly unlikely to lead to a physically intimate relationship. My friends are like me, just like me - while my girlfriends can never be quite that similar, otherwise there would be no balance to our relationship. My friendships and my relationships are not interchangable in the slightest. Sometimes those aspects of a person that makes them a great friend negates them as something else.

Yeah, mutual needs must be met and you haven't even expressed a need for any of this.

I thought this was a given and assumed, thats why I havent talked about it. But yea, I think this is the most important.

Since we are on the topic of 'needs', and maybe since you are bi, you would understand the unique challenges that are involved in marrages where one spouse is gay.
SO , And again I hate for this topic to turn into a sex talk,
because sex is not the foundation of a good relationship.
what if I was to say,since my wife is gay/ bi that she has a very low sex drive towards males, that is while she is very affectionate and physical towards me, it is always from a non sexual context.
She just doesnt find the male anatomy sexual.
And what if my wife feels the same sexual frustration over not expressing her gayness?
SO my wife recognizes my frustration over the years and wants me to find another female to fullfill this, a bi female that we can both be with?
Do you think this is a positive situation?

 

[Ben Borg Again]

Ben Borg Again - this potential situation concerns me as relates to your daughter. Do you have any concerns about her?

yea I suppose different topic. I forgot where I found the information I have run across many times. But many people have done studies on children of gay parents and while the data is full of details, I cannot rememeber most of it except that children of gay parents are no more likely to be gay, although it is fact that the children tend to be liberal and non conservative.
There are lots of academic books on the subject with lots of case studies and information.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Just guessing, but if my parents were poly-whatyoucallit, my life would be much more worse.

 

[JimfromOhio]

The definition for Polyamory: "involves intentional open long-term loving and sexual relationships." Polyamory do not have the fruitful life of marriage to someone to whom they are faithful, nor do they have the fruitful friendships with others that grow because the sexual possibilities have been removed by such a marriage. They do not have the fruitful disciplines of self-control, or the fruitful experience of conquering the passions, or the fruitful mind of the Christian moral teaching.

C.S. Lewis once remarked that the reason why we look for fulfillment outside our own marriage is because we have not allowed God to show us the depths of joy and happiness that He can provide in our existing relationship. When we allow ourselves to experience God's plan for marriage, we soon find ourselves in a state of satisfaction and contentment that makes us wonder why anyone would ever consider such a stray thought.

 

[Seeking...]

Since we are on the topic of 'needs', and maybe since you are bi, you would understand the unique challenges that are involved in marrages where one spouse is gay.
SO , And again I hate for this topic to turn into a sex talk,
because sex is not the foundation of a good relationship.
what if I was to say,since my wife is gay/ bi that she has a very low sex drive towards males, that is while she is very affectionate and physical towards me, it is always from a non sexual context.
She just doesnt find the male anatomy sexual.
And what if my wife feels the same sexual frustration over not expressing her gayness?
SO my wife recognizes my frustration over the years and wants me to find another female to fullfill this, a bi female that we can both be with?
Do you think this is a positive situation?

I think the potential seems to be more for harm than good honestly. I am bi, but I have in the past always been monogamous to a single partner. My sex drive is affected more by the security of the relationship than the gender I am with. I don't feel a lack because I am not with both genders. I would prefer to be with both (were I to find others desirous of it) because the personality traits I am attracted to are so distinct and the ways of relating are so distinct that I believe it would be more fulfilling for all parties in the long term. I think of bisexuality as the ability to love both genders intimately - but not a need to. You are not denying your wife by expecting monogamy from her if you are in turn being monagamous.

My main concern for you still lies in the fact that you don't really want this. Yes this additional person could be someone for you to be close to - but you don't seem truly frustrated by your present situation. I also have concerns with bringing in an additional person to solve a problem. As this person would be an additional facet to your marriage, an additional relationship - she could cause more problems than she might solve.

Also the way you describe how you are together leaves me wondering a bit. Is your wife sure she is bisexual? Has she ever been involved with a woman? Has she always been unattracted to men sexually? Is there a possibility she is actually a lesbian?

 

[sanaa]

good questions, and thanks for not being jugemental.

I guess if I explained the dynamics I have with my wife it would make more sense.....

My wife is an extremely extroverted open personality, she is the kind of person that makes everyone feel special, loved, and comfortable.

While I am the exact polar opposite in every way. You would think this would cause problems , but it doesnt, I think we balance each other out perfectly, evidence is our home environment is very positive, we love each other very much, open communication, and trust. and we are still very affectionate towards each other even after 15 years together. I dont think we are codependant per se, but she is honestly like my soul mate and our opposite natures really balance out well.
Only one problem: that is because my wife is so attractive, the guys give her all the attention and she has never had any close female friends, which depresses her to no end. she never grew up with a mother figure,
I cannot fill the void of that missing emotional relationship that females share. Because while my wife is such an emotional creature, I am pretty much a Vulcan compared to her, non emotional and I tend to gravitate towards academic things. She is also bisexual.

ur wife sounds like a lovely person . however the thing that bothers me in this situation is that she is in need of a gf , u are not in need of another gf . it sounds like something u would go along with but not something u want 100 % . also would u be ready for ur wife to strike a deep emotional bond with another person which may lead to less sharing of her emotions with u or less time for u . ull basically be "sharing" ur wife with someone . also ull have to find a woman u both really like and who loves u back and is ready to enter this situation . ur emotional relationship with this 2nd woman will be tricky. also after reading some of ur later posts , the concern about ur daughter is not that she ll grow up gay but the concern is about the potential emotional impact on her . frankly this is not about have 2 gay parents , this is about having 3 parents in the same house who are all sleeping with each other . if u ever enter such a situation i hope ull put her interests and concerns above urs or ur wifes's

 

[Zaac]

Jesus also said there is NO DIFFERENCE between commiting adultry in you mind or doing it for real. SO assuming you are a normal male how many times have you commited adultery in your heart by lusting after another woman?
1000? 10,000 times? How many times have you commited adultury just walking thru the mall? 10, 20? What about just watching TV in one evening that uses sex to sell products? Have you ever masturbated? If you say NO, then I wouldnt believe you.

So you're trying to justify committing adultery by the propensity of men to commit it in their minds? Either way it's still adultery and STILL wrong and you just acknowledged that YOU KNOW that it is wrong.

If Jesus himself said you commit adultury by lusting. And assuming your a normal male with biological drives, then truth is, your have commited adultury I am guessing hundreds of times over????

I am indeed a sinner. And the fact that I am a sinner carries no weight in my defense of doing that which God says not to do. Either way you are committing adultery, and either way its wrong.

So come on over to my house and we will help each other extract that log that is impaled in your eye.

There's no log in my eye. I sin and I repent and ask Jesus Christ to forgive me every day. You on the other hand are considering moving forward on something that you know to be sinful. That is blatant disregard for God's truth. You're treading on some dangerous ground because He WILL give you over to sin.

anyway, thanks for your opinion. honestly. I value it even if I dont agree, because you represent a huge cross section of christian culture. Your opinions represent the christian opinions of many many people.

I'm not asking you to consider my opinions for I haven't given my opinion. I'm directing you to the Holy Word of God which I KNOW that you know. As I said before, you ALREADY know by your own admission that this is not right.

I'll be praying for ya.

 

[Ben Borg Again]

I think the potential seems to be more for harm than good honestly. I am bi, but I have in the past always been monogamous to a single partner. My sex drive is affected more by the security of the relationship than the gender I am with. I don't feel a lack because I am not with both genders. I would prefer to be with both (were I to find others desirous of it) because the personality traits I am attracted to are so distinct and the ways of relating are so distinct that I believe it would be more fulfilling for all parties in the long term. I think of bisexuality as the ability to love both genders intimately - but not a need to. You are not denying your wife by expecting monogamy from her if you are in turn being monagamous.

My main concern for you still lies in the fact that you don't really want this. Yes this additional person could be someone for you to be close to - but you don't seem truly frustrated by your present situation. I also have concerns with bringing in an additional person to solve a problem. As this person would be an additional facet to your marriage, an additional relationship - she could cause more problems than she might solve.

Also the way you describe how you are together leaves me wondering a bit. Is your wife sure she is bisexual? Has she ever been involved with a woman? Has she always been unattracted to men sexually? Is there a possibility she is actually a lesbian?

Thanks for the input. This is an issue that has always been under the surface in our marriage, and its something I have never talked about with anyone in real life.

Ok, I will admit it, I am almost %100 certian my wife is a lesbian, or at least %90 lesbian. shes been this way since I have known her in High school and she is 30 now.
However my wife has this wierd ability to be in denial, for example I brought up the gay/ bi sexual subject for the second time in our relationship, ( the first time she freaked out) She flat out denys even being gay or even bi, as if its the most absurd thing I have ever said then IN THE SAME CONVERSATION she says she wants to pursue a female sexual relationship, preferably long term in a commited live-in situation.

WHA??? talk about absolute contradiction.

She has the same capacity to be in Denial about other thingsfor example, when I sit down with her and explain a simple equation about money...( because she doesnt think she spends too much money) that is if you spent $100, it doesnt matter if its $10 a day for 10 days , or all at once.. its still equals the exact same thing -$100 , and I just sit there in awe while she tells me I am wrong and she fails to see the logic.
I cant explain how she can be so irrational and in denial this way when she doesnt want to face reality. Its a gift LOL. Seriously though its an odd thing, I would even label it a "pathological denial" but only affects a few areas of her life... sex and money

And she is the same way about being gay .
FIrst of all she is a christian
and homophobic ( in an odd obbsessive way), in the same breath she tells me she wants to pursue relationships with a woman, she is sexualy attracted to woman, her dreams have always been gay, attractive woman turn her on, male anatomy grosses her out, gay porn turns her on,

I tell her , "Then you are bisexual, maybe in all likely hood lesbian"

And she flat out denys it and gets offended, but in the same breath tells me she wants to have a polyamory relationship?


other men fawn all over her, and it doesnt phase her in the slightest, one dude even commited suicide over her a few years ago, because she has this bad habit of being way to nice to guys, they take it the wrong way, they confess their love to her, she gets confused and crys, because from her perspective she is just " one of the guys" and is not attracted to men, never realized she was " leading them on" ( patholigical denial again) while they think otherwise. Sexual Harassment gets filed, people get fired, doodoo hits the fan, and off she is to another job where it starts all over again.

No my wife has not had relations with another woman, niether of us have been with another, and she acts wierd and akward towards woman, like a high school crush would. So she has never really had any female friends to speak of.

 

[Ben Borg Again]

So you're trying to justify committing adultery by the propensity of men to commit it in their minds? Either way it's still adultery and STILL wrong and you just acknowledged that YOU KNOW that it is wrong.



I am indeed a sinner. And the fact that I am a sinner carries no weight in my defense of doing that which God says not to do. Either way you are committing adultery, and either way its wrong.



There's no log in my eye. I sin and I repent and ask Jesus Christ to forgive me every day. You on the other hand are considering moving forward on something that you know to be sinful. That is blatant disregard for God's truth. You're treading on some dangerous ground because He WILL give you over to sin.



I'm not asking you to consider my opinions for I haven't given my opinion. I'm directing you to the Holy Word of God which I KNOW that you know. As I said before, you ALREADY know by your own admission that this is not right.

I'll be praying for ya.

tell you what Zaac, lets make a deal,
you marry a gay woman for 10 years that looks like Angelios Julies twin sister, who is even approached by the public for autographs..... who at best tolerates infrequent hetro-sex for the sake of marital duty, who really finds the male anatomy gross, who has always been attracted to woman since puberty. While at the same time, in every other area of your relationship, you are the best of friends with your wife, who loves to spend time with you in a positive commited way....

..........and we will pick up this conversation where we left off, and we will see if you still have the same dualistic world view on the topic of Adultury...... DO we have a deal?

 

[feral]

While I have no personal experience in this sort of thing, I do have a pretty close friend who was involved in a sort of similar situation. My friend, Quentin, and his wife, Heather, were married for about a year when Heather brought up the issue of her bisexuality. Quentin has always been really flexible and open about those matters so he wasn't shocked and actually offered Heather his permission if she wanted to engage in an side relationship with a woman, thinking he was being kind. So, she started sleeping with her female friend Angela. After a while, Heather started bringing Angela to the marriage bed and encouraging Quentin to join in. Pretty soon the three of them were really emotionally entangled and the relationship sort of lost it's boundaries. Quentin started sleeping with Angela when Heather was out, and everyone sort of lost it, so Angela moved out and Quentin and Heather worked on their marriage. About a month later, Angela married a bisexual man named Brad. She revealed to Brad that she and Heather had kept up their affair (Quentin hadn't known) and wanted Brad to join in. Heather told Quentin she was still sleeping with Angela, and invited him to join in -- so, it was all four of them together. Anyway, they eventually got a house together. On the outside, it was like "Friends" -- two couples sharing the rent in a duplex. On the inside, it was one big entanglement, with everyone sleeping with everyone and people always feeling betrayed, neglected, hurt or left out. Heather and Quentin's marriage dissolved pretty fast and she and Angela left. It was just chaos. So, eventually, Quentin and Heather started seeing a counselor, but they still have (a year later) issues. Heather has zero trust for Quentin. When he and I have lunch, Heather gets upset and calls every five minutes, sure he's having an affair. She has gotten violent and threatened suicide when Quentin has been five minutes late returning from school, club events or work. Quentin is involved in a club I'm in, and Heather has turned up several times just screaming and threatening because she is worried he is cheating on her, and because he's been with both men and women he's not even permitted to bring male friends into the home anymore. So, basically, they don't like each other and they are trying to make their monogamous relationship work, but putting those old limits in place after so much unrestraint has really cost them all semblance of love, loyalty and trust. In any case, Quentin has had affairs with two friends of mine since this, and Heather has also been unfaithful.

Anyway, I know that's pretty dismal (as well as sounding like a Penthouse Letters submission) but that's what I've seen of it. I've talked to Heather a few times and she said basically opening the possibilities of being with others made it hard to settle for one person, especially given her bisexuality. They both regret it. I think the situation of polyamory can work, but there needs to be very clear boundaries as well as tremendous communication. It needs to be something both partners want and done in a situation with complete trust, no secrets. Also, I think the third party needs to know what their place is and accept it before coming into the house, because in this case, the original marriage took a backseat to sex with the third and fourth party. Maturity is also a factor. If you decide to do it, good luck. I'd suggest speaking to an open-minded therapists or others who have experienced it too, so you're wary of the pitfalls and potential problems.

 

[Ben Borg Again]

Thanks FERAL for sharing that, its valuable to me to know these things.

I dont know if I am being nieve or not. But my wife and I have never had trust or jelousy issues, that is I can do whatever i want, go out with who ever I want, the same with my wife, because we have never had reason to not trust the other person. I have never cheated, although since I front a band, I have had many opportunitys, but because I highly value that trust and monagamy we have I dont cheat, the same goes with my wife, in that also it is impossible for her to hide things from me, because as soon as we are together for any length of time, she panics and confesses to things like spending $50 on perfume or whatever. she is so transperant, that she cant hide things from me. Its absolutly hilarious to see her be awkard about something thats bothering her, until she confesses to something that winds up to be trivial. Its impossible for her to lie about things cuz I can see right thru her. She has this inability to lie ( except to herself)

so the question is, and I am so confused, do you think I am being selfish in "forcing" my wife to stay monogamous? It seems what ever choice I make, she would happily follow thru, even though i am aware she wants a girlfriend to fill the void. At the same time she is conflicted about it ( being a christian and in pathological denial of her gayness) and I am convinced if I forbid it, she would honor that,.
I dont mean to sound egotistical or whatever, but I have complete control over my wife, which I hope I never take advantage of this.
I think my choice not to force my wife to have sex with me (or play the giult card), even though I am sexually frustrated, proves that I dont take advantage of the control I have over her.
Truth is I could probably convince her to jump off a bridge, if she thinks it would make me happy. Thats how much of her self identity is invested in me. Its like we are one - individual. So at the end of the day, this polyamory choice is completely in my hands, and she would happily follow what ever choice I make.
Truth is I am mostly a father figure to her, and she likes it that way.
i kind of like it that way too because it fulfills my own emotional needs, due to past childhood development.

 

[Vylo]

I have always had mixed feelings on unions between more then 2 people. I think that unless it is mutual between all of the members that it shouldn't be done (meaning that all involved are committed to every other member involved). This sounds like the case in your situation, so I think it could work quite easily.

 

[HRE]

My opinion follows, but keep in mind that I am but a youngin' of seventeen and I am not wise in the way of relationships.

That said, a typical two-person relationship has an advantage in a disagreement in that the argument is one person versus one person. You really have to work together and compromise to come to a solution.

If you have three people, and argument will consist of one person against two, and the two will claim a de facto majority rule victory.

Now, if, at the beginning of this relationship, you set up parameters to deal with this situation, then it sounds great -- the more people you can fully share your love with, the better, right?

 

[Ben Borg Again]

QUOTEING SEEKING,,

My main concern for you still lies in the fact that you don't really want this. Yes this additional person could be someone for you to be close to - but you don't seem truly frustrated by your present situation. I also have concerns with bringing in an additional person to solve a problem. As this person would be an additional facet to your marriage, an additional relationship - she could cause more problems than she might solve.

your right, i dont really want this in most respects, for two reasons,

I dont want to complicate my relationship that is mostly problem-free and over all drama-free,

And a fear than my wife may find a new found identity and independance, therefore leave me behind, or the female may manipulate her into leaving me.. causeing all sorts of drama.

This is why I dont know if i am being controled by selfishness.

from a sexual perspective, there is a part of me that would like to do it. But i dont really want to nor desire to have a emotional relationship with another woman, because I dont feel unfulfilled in the emotional department. However a part of me thinks it would be nice, that is I really like,admire, and being around women, and it would be nice to find another wife to share life with, but too risky.

jeezers, I am going to leave for the rest of the day, its really starting to stress me out. i need a break. Have a good day, thanks for your perspective.

 

[Seeking...]

Given the new information - I suggest counselling.
You guys have too many pre-existing sexual issues and personal identity issues to risk bringing in a third person to the mix. You are not being selfish by expecting monogamy.
Your wife needs to figure out who she is and find a way to resolve her feelings.

 

[sparklecat]

I'm going to agree with Seeking on this.