Poll - Once Saved Always Saved

[chestertonrules]

Just in case we missed this promise, Jesus made it again even more clearly in John 10:28-30. "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one." The Father and the Son have both accepted responsibility for our security. Once we're in Their hands, no one can get us away.

To whom does he give eternal life?

- John 15:1-6 "...Every branch of mine that bears no fruit, he [the Father] takes away...Abide in me and I in you...I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit...If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers, and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned."

- Matthew 19:16-17 "'Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?'...'If you would enter life, keep the commandments.'" Isn't keeping the commandments a set of works?


Being saved is a process, not a one time event.

Remember:

- James 2:19 "Even the demons believe - and shudder."

Yet, the demons aren't saved, are they?

 

[chestertonrules]

Much more when you understand. Satan believes and trembles. Ergo, believing and not being converted whereby the heart can become affected, is no belief at all. Falling is evidible.

You are supporting my position.

Salvation is a walk with Christ, not a one time conversion experience.

Do we agree on this?

 

[Ormly]

So what if you lose your faith? What if you faith dies?

Is dead faith saving faith?

"If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself." 2 Timothy 2:13

Now speak of the imputation and impartation and see what the difference is.

 

[Ormly]

You are supporting my position.

Salvation is a walk with Christ, not a one time conversion experience.

Do we agree on this?

it is a onetime conversion when you read it as I wrote it to you.

 

[chestertonrules]

"If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself." 2 Timothy 2:13

Now speak of the imputation and impartation and see what the difference is.

He cannot deny himself? True enough.

He does give us the choice to follow or reject him.

If we reject him, it has nothing to do with his faithfulness.

 

[Ormly]

He cannot deny himself? True enough.

He does give us the choice to follow or reject him.

If we reject him, it has nothing to do with his faithfulness.

Rightly dividing the word means everything in this.

Speak of the one who hears and believes with his heart; he is a changed man by the indwelling Christ, who now becomes discouraged and falls away into total unbelief. What of him?

 

[chestertonrules]

Rightly dividing the word means everything in this.

Speak of the one who hears and believes with his heart; he is a changed man by the indwelling Christ, who now becomes discouraged and falls away into total unbelief. What of him?

If you reject God, you will not be saved.

It is quite simple.

It is very scriptural. Do you disagree with this?

 

[NoDoubt]

Being saved is a process, not a one time event.

I know this is a Catholic doctrine. This is why they keep crucifying Christ as every mass. He said "It Is Finished"

It's not necessary to do it over and over again.

 

[Ormly]

I know this is a Catholic doctrine. This is why they keep crucifying Christ as every mass. He said "It Is Finished"

It's not necessary to do it over and over again.

Isn't that the crux of the matter with the mass?

 

[chestertonrules]

Matthew.

The sheep and the goats:

The Son of Man Will Judge the Nations


31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy[c] angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44 “Then they also will answer Him,[d] saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

[forgivenWretch]

I know this is a Catholic doctrine. This is why they keep crucifying Christ as every mass. He said "It Is Finished"

It's not necessary to do it over and over again.

 

[Ormly]

If you reject God, you will not be saved.

It is quite simple.

It is very scriptural. Do you disagree with this?

You aren't reading a cotton-pickin thing submitted to you. That is the way of cultism, ya know. i.e., they are un-teachable, even with the word of God.

Again: You are not making a proper distinction between the imputation and the impartation of the righteousness of Christ. Not only that you aren't even acknowledging you know the difference between the two words.

 

[NoDoubt]

Fine.

Heb 6:4 KJV For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 KJV And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 KJV If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Does Hebrews 6 Deny OSAS?

In Hebrews 6:4-6 it says "For concerning those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify the Son of God for themselves again, and put him to open shame."
Does this mean people can lose their salvation? If not, what does it mean?

There are two facets to our relationship with God. There is union, which happens at the moment of salvation and guarantees our eternity with Him (Ephes. 1:13-14) and there is fellowship, the ability to dwell in His presence and communicate with Him in the here and now. Union is based on our belief and fellowship is based on our behavior.

The context of Hebrews 6 is interrupting our fellowship with God, not breaking our union. The key is the phrase "renew again to repentance." Jewish believers were being pressured into keeping the law, especially where it concerned the daily sacrifice for sin. Those who relied on the daily sacrifice instead of invoking 1 John 1:9 (confessing directly to God) were in effect crucifying the Lord all over again, since He is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. The daily sacrifice was a foreshadowing of Him, and when He came the shadow gave way to the reality. The old way was no longer sufficient to restore them to fellowship.

Since 1 John 1:9 says that confession brings forgiveness and purification from all unrighteousness (renewal again to repentance), then by implication anything other than confessing our sins prevents forgiveness and purification and causes estrangement from God. It doesn't revoke our salvation, but because God can't be in the presence of sin, it does suspend our relationship, depriving us of blessings we could have otherwise had.



There are many clear verses that unequivically promise eternal security. Since the Bible cannot contradict itself and still be the Word of God, interpreting Hebrews 6 as having anything to do with salvation is a violation of the rules of interpretation, which teaches that we're to use clear verses to intepret obscure ones, not the other way around.

I would like to work on the other verses, but I have to go and get ready for an appointment. Maybe later.

 

[chestertonrules]

I know this is a Catholic doctrine. This is why they keep crucifying Christ as every mass. He said "It Is Finished"

It's not necessary to do it over and over again.

Your ignorance of the faith is typical, but need not be permanent.

Here's what Paul said I cor 11:

23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.

 

[chestertonrules]

You aren't reading a cotton-pickin thing submitted to you. That is the way of cultism, ya know. i.e., they are un-teachable, even with the word of God.

Again: You are not making a proper distinction between the imputation and the impartation of the righteousness of Christ. Not only that you aren't even acknowledging you know the difference between the two words.

I read that gibberish already.

It is double talk designed to obscure the meaning of the scripture.

Since Luther and Calvin, many want to distort the crystal clear meaning that works are necessary if we are to PICK UP OUR CROSS and FOLLOW CHRIST.

You backflips and verbal gymnastics are pale when confronted with the crystal clear words of scripture.

 

[chestertonrules]

The Son of Man Will Judge the Nations


31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy[c] angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44 “Then they also will answer Him,[d] saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

[Ormly]

I read that gibberish already.

It is double talk designed to obscure the meaning of the scripture.

Since Luther and Calvin, many want to distort the crystal clear meaning that works are necessary if we are to PICK UP OUR CROSS and FOLLOW CHRIST.

You backflips and verbal gymnastics are pale when confronted with the crystal clear words of scripture.

But you don't know the scriptures. Parroting them is not the same thing as understanding what they say and intended for you to grasp when one is in Christ. Ergo, you haven't read. Think of it this way: You hear with the ears but not the heart. . . . that is evident.

Give the definition of impute and impart.

 

[chestertonrules]

But you don't know the scriptures. Parroting them is not the same thing as understanding what they say and intended for you to grasp when one is in Christ. Ergo, you haven't read. Think of it this way: You hear with the ears but not the heart. . . . that is evident.

Give the definition of impute and impart.

You don't want to read the scriptures, you want to parrot man made dogma.

The scriptures are clear, but you don't accept the scriptures.

Because of the arrogance and rebellion of the reformers, you are incapable of accepting the bible without their massive distortions and evasions.


Anyone reading this post can see what the bible says, and how you and your friend desperately try to avoid the words written.

 

[NoDoubt]

Your ignorance of the faith is typical, but need not be permanent.

Here's what Paul said I cor 11:

23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.

I take communion. I just don't crucify Him. He's not on the cross anymore. Please take Him down from there. He is risen.

I was raised Catholic.

 

[Ormly]

You don't want to read the scriptures, you want to parrot man made dogma.

The scriptures are clear, but you don't accept the scriptures.

Because of the arrogance and rebellion of the reformers, you are incapable of accepting the bible without their massive distortions and evasions.


Anyone reading this post can see what the bible says, and how you and your friend desperately try to avoid the words written.

I give up.