Poll - Once Saved Always Saved

[WarriorAngel]

In the first century, the Didache, commonly known as the Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, said "Watch for your life’s sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ready, for you know not the hour in which our Lord comes. But you shall assemble together often, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if you be not made complete in the last time" (Didache 16 [A.D. 70]).

In the second century, Irenaeus wrote, "To Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Savior, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, ‘every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess’ [Phil. 2:10–11] to him, and that he should execute just judgment towards all. . . . The ungodly and unrighteous and wicked and profane among men [shall go] into everlasting fire; but [he] may, in the exercise of his grace, confer immortality on the righteous, and holy, and those who have kept his commandments, and have persevered in his love, some from the beginning [of their Christian course], and others from [the date of] their penance, and may surround them with everlasting glory" (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]).

Such consistent testimony could be given from the dawn of Christianity until today, and no suggestion of "once saved, always saved" can be found on the lips of any Christian before Calvin.
Helper

 

[Tonks]

Nope. OSAS is about as un-Biblical as you can get.

 

[NoDoubt]

When Jesus went to the cross, He took ALL your sins with him and paid for them there, so that when you asked He could immediately forgive you. (Even the faith to ask was a gift from Him.)

If you've asked Him to be your Saviour there is no sin you can commit in your lifetime that will cause Him to revoke your salvation, because there is no sin that He doesn't already know about. And that means there is no sin He hasn't already paid for. If He gave you the faith to ask, He will use that same faith to sustain you. As He died, He said, "It is finished." He was talking about the work of saving you.

I was a back-slidden Christian for years and years and I know that had something happened to me during those years (because I still knew I was a 'lost sheep' and I was straying) that He would have lovingly accepted me home. My sins had been paid for once and for all on that cross, because I had come to Him that one time.

He could not have saved me and then snatched it away from me. No way!

 

[Rick Otto]

Nope. OSAS is about as un-Biblical as you can get.

Yep, except for the fact that is as scriptural as anything can be.

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=WarriorAngel;Or just plain heartburn.
You missed me didnt you.

I didn't realize how much!

Its easier to sin 'knowing' you are already saved...so why not give in and enjoy a little sin once in while?

How would you know if you've never been sure?

I dont see the practical reasoning, and i love logic.

Another unrequited love.
Hope your furnace is working well, sis. Welcome back.

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

Yep, except for the fact that is as scriptural as anything can be.

Certainly, if anyone was ever saved, St. Paul was. Yet he himself states: 1Co 9:27 I punish my body and bring it under control, to avoid any risk that, having acted as herald for others, I myself may be disqualified.
If OSAS were true, he couldn't make such a statement.

The reformers did not hold such an innovation. And today, only a very small fraction of Christians hold such a belief. Even here in a predominantly Evangelical community, it is still a fraction of these who hold to this unbiblical doctrine of man. If it was biblical it would surly have been held by the early Christians. Yet it did not exist and no one held such a belief until the 18th century.

 

[WarriorAngel]

When Jesus went to the cross, He took ALL your sins with him and paid for them there, so that when you asked He could immediately forgive you. (Even the faith to ask was a gift from Him.)

AS long as you are not telling me that one confession He is Savior is all there is to it, we may have a simmilar outlook.
Which is to say...we must confess in order to be forgiven and we must persevere and work out our salvation...with fear and trembling.

If you've asked Him to be your Saviour there is no sin you can commit in your lifetime that will cause Him to revoke your salvation,

Hmmm, so what about blaspheminf the Holy Spirit?

because there is no sin that He doesn't already know about. And that means there is no sin He hasn't already paid for. If He gave you the faith to ask, He will use that same faith to sustain you. As He died, He said, "It is finished." He was talking about the work of saving you.

I was a back-slidden Christian for years and years and I know that had something happened to me during those years (because I still knew I was a 'lost sheep' and I was straying) that He would have lovingly accepted me home. My sins had been paid for once and for all on that cross, because I had come to Him that one time.

He could not have saved me and then snatched it away from me. No way!

He might not, but satan could snatch it away by temptation to sin against God, and furthermore, we know he can do this...he took 'Paradise' and that life from Adam and Eve by temptation.

But it was their choice, and there is the catch.
Free will.

Jesus gives us every opportunity to come to Him and remain faithful, but it is not by force, or else the whole nT would be moot point in warning us of the different sins.

Read Romans 1 for example.

I didn't realize how much!



How would you know if you've never been sure?

Another unrequited love.
Hope your furnace is working well, sis. Welcome back.

Furnace is good...and we use a wood burner.

Certainly, if anyone was ever saved, St. Paul was. Yet he himself states: 1Co 9:27 I punish my body and bring it under control, to avoid any risk that, having acted as herald for others, I myself may be disqualified.
If OSAS were true, he couldn't make such a statement.

The reformers did not hold such an innovation. And today, only a very small fraction of Christians hold such a belief. Even here in a predominantly Evangelical community, it is still a fraction of these who hold to this unbiblical doctrine of man. If it was biblical it would surly have been held by the early Christians. Yet it did not exist and no one held such a belief until the 18th century.

 

[NoDoubt]

Certainly, if anyone was ever saved, St. Paul was. Yet he himself states: 1Co 9:27 I punish my body and bring it under control, to avoid any risk that, having acted as herald for others, I myself may be disqualified.
If OSAS were true, he couldn't make such a statement.

The reformers did not hold such an innovation. And today, only a very small fraction of Christians hold such a belief. Even here in a predominantly Evangelical community, it is still a fraction of these who hold to this unbiblical doctrine of man. If it was biblical it would surly have been held by the early Christians. Yet it did not exist and no one held such a belief until the 18th century.

This is not pertaining to losing one's salvation.


1 Cor 9:27 - King James
27But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Gr. adokimos, "disapproved" --- Paul is writing of service, not of salvation. He is not expressing fear that he may lose his salvation, but of of his crown at the Judgement Seat of Christ.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Edit for clarification:

The Gift and the Prize

The first is the free Gift called Salvation that's given to all who ask in faith irrespective of merit and guarantees our admission into the Kingdom. Ephesians 2:8-9 is the model, saying that salvation is a Gift from God. The second consists of Heavenly rewards we can earn for the things we do as believers here on Earth. Philippians 3:13-14 are good verses for explaining this. Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

In addition to the Gift, there's a Prize.

A gift is something given out of love, irrespective of merit, and is never taken back. A prize, on the other hand, is something we qualify for and earn. And if we're not careful we can lose it. (Rev. 3:11) Paul had already received the Gift of salvation, it was behind him. Now he was focused on winning the Prize as well.
In 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 he explained the difference in greater detail. Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever.
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No Olympic athlete was satisfied just to have qualified to participate in the games. Everyone wanted to win the victor's crown. Likewise, we shouldn't be satisfied just to have received the Gift of salvation. We must now live our lives as believers in such a way as to win the Prize as well.

The Bible calls some of these prizes crowns, and while the athlete's crown soon wilted away (it was a wreath of ivy) the crowns believers can win last forever. They're worth making some sacrifices for. That's why Paul said, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. (1 Cor. 9:27) The crowns are identified as the Everlasting Crown (Victory) in 1 Cor 9:25, Crown of the Soul Winner in Phil 4:1 and 1 Thes 2:19, Crown of Righteousness in 2 Tim 4:8, Crown of Life in Jas 1:12 and Rev 2:10, and the Crown of Glory in 1 Peter 5:4.



The difference between the Gift and the Prize is also seen in 1 Cor. 3:12-15. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

At the judgment of believers, the quality of our work on earth will be tested by fire. Only work that survives the test will bring us a reward. But notice that even if all our work is destroyed in the fire, we'll still have our salvation. Why? Because it's a free Gift, given out of love, irrespective of merit.

 

[NoDoubt]

AS long as you are not telling me that one confession He is Savior is all there is to it, we may have a simmilar outlook.
Which is to say...we must confess in order to be forgiven and we must persevere and work out our salvation...with fear and trembling.

What work? Jesus did the work on the cross. That's what He came for because we could not do it ourselves.

Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.


Hmmm, so what about blaspheminf the Holy Spirit?

Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is hardening ones heart and refusing the gift of Salvation through Christ.


He might not, but satan could snatch it away by temptation to sin against God, and furthermore, we know he can do this...he took 'Paradise' and that life from Adam and Eve by temptation.

Satan has no power over me. He and the demons tremble at the name of Christ. I don't know where Adam and Eve come into the picture here. Christ's atonemt work had not taken place at that time.

But it was their choice, and there is the catch.
Free will.

Jesus gives us every opportunity to come to Him and remain faithful, but it is not by force, or else the whole nT would be moot point in warning us of the different sins.

Read Romans 1 for example. Yep. Free will

 

[forgivenWretch]

Nope. OSAS is about as un-Biblical as you can get.

Care to show any proof, that is if it exists.

 

[forgivenWretch]

Foundthelight and everyone else...God's Word.....


Guess this also is un-biblical?

 

[forgivenWretch]

God's Plan of Salvation The Bible says there is only one way to Heaven

Jesus said: "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by me." (John 14:6)
Good works cannot save you.
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)
Trust Jesus Christ today! Here's what you must do:

1. Admit you are a sinner. "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" (Romans 3:23)
   "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" (Romans 5:12)
   "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." (1 John 1:10)
2. Be willing to turn from sin (repent). Jesus said: "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." (Luke 13:5)
   "And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:" (Acts 17:30)
3. Believe that Jesus Christ died for you, was buried, and rose from the dead. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)
   "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners. Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)
   "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." (Romans 10:9)
4. Through prayer, invite Jesus into your life to become your personal Saviour. "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." (Romans 10:10)
   "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13)

What to pray:

Dear God, I am a sinner and need forgiveness. I believe that Jesus Christ shed His precious blood and died for my sin. I am willing to turn from sin. I now invite Christ to come into my heart and life as my personal Saviour. "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" (John 1:12)
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Corinthians 5:17)

Calling God a liar?

 

[Rick Otto]

Care to show any proof, that is if it exists.

The lovable Mr. Tonks doesn't do apologetics.

Props to NoDoubt for correcting Iggy's assertion:

This is not pertaining to losing one's salvation.


1 Cor 9:27 - King James
27But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Gr. adokimos, "disapproved" --- Paul is writing of service, not of salvation. He is not expressing fear that he may lose his salvation, but of of his crown at the Judgement Seat of Christ.

Good work, sis.

 

[chestertonrules]

Luke 8

11"This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. 12Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. 14The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life's worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. 15But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.


We are not saved by a one time conversion experience. It is a walk with Christ requiring our effort and perseverence.

 

[forgivenWretch]

I am really saddened by all of the fuel that is going to strength the flames of Hell. Must be sad not knowing where one will end up, and so even more sad, deeming God a liar.

 

[chestertonrules]

That makes it sound like "Only The Strong Survive" - The Law of the Jungle, the gospel of works not the doctrines of grace & election.
1Jo 5:5 - Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

It's biblical. You can characterize it however you like, but you can't change it!

- Hebrews 12:14 "Strive for peace with all men and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord."

- Romans 2:6-7 "For He will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life."

- James 2:24 "You see that a man is justified by WORKS, and not by faith alone."

- Matthew 6:14 "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you don not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

- John 15:1-6 "...Every branch of mine that bears no fruit, he [the Father] takes away...Abide in me and I in you...I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit...If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers, and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned."

- John 6:53-54 "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink His blood, you have no life in you; he who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

 

[forgivenWretch]

Taking a verse or two out of context, proves nothing...absolutely nothing. God does not contradict, as do humans, in their attempt to seek only that which satisfies their needs and wants.

 

[forgivenWretch]

Picking and a Choosing! Satisfying mere human desires.

 

[chestertonrules]

Taking a verse or two out of context, proves nothing...absolutely nothing. God does not contradict, as do humans, in their attempt to seek only that which satisfies their needs and wants.

Why is it that verses you don't accept are out of context?

Perhaps you are just ignorant of the scriptures. There are plenty more where those came from.

If you claim they are out of context, then why don't you put them in context for us.

God bless.

 

[Ormly]

Luke 8

11"This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. 12Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. 14The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life's worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. 15But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.


We are not saved by a one time conversion experience. It is a walk with Christ requiring our effort and perseverence.

You have the imputation and the impartation of the righteousness of Christ confused.