Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Ormly said:C'mon Ben, lets properly divide God's word. Jesus isn't speaking of righteous living in the John passage. You should know that.
Actually, no; it's clear in John1:12-13. Verse 13 is "begottenness", which is "born-again". That's all of God and nothing of men. But verse 12 says "BECOMING begotten is by believing and receiving Christ."Only if you are. Being born again is Him choosing you, not you choosing Him.
That's true; as Jesus said, "You will know them by their fruits."I am afraid many are presumptious in believing they are, especially when they open their mouth and it is revealed.
The "sin unto death", is that which is not accompanied by repentance. Jesus said, "Unless you REPENT, you WILL PERISH." Lk13:3You can't reconcile that with scripture if you rightly divide His word. For instance: There is a sin NOT unto death.
Look at those in Matt7:21-23; they thought they were righteous, "prophesying, and casting out demons and do many miracles" --- but Jesus said "you practice wickedness".Yet we believe all sin is unto death. Likewise, there is righteousness of man that won't ever get him into heaven by and of itself. Some higher righteousness is needed that only God can gift to man for accomplishing that feat. Can you see what I am saying?
Has that ever WORKED???RickOtto said:I be one.
At 52, it's a little late to be tryin' to insult me, if that was even his intent... can't realy be sure, but it's amusing to think so.
I love when the ladies at the cash register ask for my ID card. I ask 'em if they want my phone number, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ormly
C'mon Ben, lets properly divide God's word. Jesus isn't speaking of righteous living in the John passage. You should know that.
Men cannot be righteous, without Jesus; if we could, He would not have needed to die on the Cross. Rom8 says what we could not do, because of weak flesh, God did, sending His Son to die for our sin.
Quote:
Only if you are. Being born again is Him choosing you, not you choosing Him.
Actually, no; it's clear in John1:12-13. Verse 13 is "begottenness", which is "born-again". That's all of God and nothing of men. But verse 12 says "BECOMING begotten is by believing and receiving Christ."
Quote:
I am afraid many are presumptious in believing they are, especially when they open their mouth and it is revealed.
That's true; as Jesus said, "You will know them by their fruits."
Quote:
You can't reconcile that with scripture if you rightly divide His word. For instance: There is a sin NOT unto death.
The "sin unto death", is that which is not accompanied by repentance. Jesus said, "Unless you REPENT, you WILL PERISH." Lk13:3
Quote:
Yet we believe all sin is unto death. Likewise, there is righteousness of man that won't ever get him into heaven by and of itself. Some higher righteousness is needed that only God can gift to man for accomplishing that feat. Can you see what I am saying?
Look at those in Matt7:21-23; they thought they were righteous, "prophesying, and casting out demons and do many miracles" --- but Jesus said "you practice wickedness".
"A_Brother", there is no "ungodly believer". Salvation is Christ in us --- if He is IN us, then HIS righteousness is OURS; we are righteous, not ungodly.
If we are ungodly, then as Jesus said "we will be known by our fruits" --- and He is NOT in us, for He will not participate in ungodliness.
I've given you the Scripture; how do I convince you of this?
"Saved belief", abides in Him and not in sin. It's black and white; we are EITHER slaves to sin and ALIEN to Christ, or we are slaves to Him and righteousness and do not walk in sin. Rom6 is clear --- please tell me what you think of the whole chapter...
Once again you have to deal with
romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness ..
scripture speak much louder than me arguing
That's true, I cannot. Neither can Paul (Rom6), Jesus (Matt7), Peter (2:1:2-10), and all the others...
Sorry, my friend --- verse 13 says "the BEGOTTENNESS is not of men but of God".
...verse 12 says "BECOMING begotten is by believing and receiving Jesus."
And if we do NOT abide, we are cast away as dried branches and burned... Jn15
1 cor 3:15 If any man's good work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
2 tim 2:13 Since we are unfaithful, Yet He abideth faithful: He cannot deny himself.
1 cor 12:21 and the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
eph 1:22 and hath put all things under his feet, and gave Him to be the head over all things to the church 23 which is His body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all.
Once again... who work is savaltion?
answer... John 1:13.... God's work
waiting
ignoring me again ... ben
Yes there is one's that believe in vain ..
1cor 15:2,10,17
all three vain in english are different words in greek
but it all has to do with thought process... not actions
No, I think it's "your turn". I asked you to comment on 1Cor6:9-11, Eph5:5-6, Gal5:19-21, and 1Jn3:5-10 --- how is it possible to be actively doing the things listed in these passages, but still expect to stroll through the gates of Heaven?
Well, I SAID "ladies"... I would never ask a guy if he wanted my phone number.Only when its the guys asking and not the gals!
(duuuuhhoooo - sorry Rick - couldn't resist)
How so?Ormly said:You are not paying attention to what is written.Ben said:Men cannot be righteous, without Jesus; if we could, He would not have needed to die on the Cross. Rom8 says what we could not do, because of weak flesh, God did, sending His Son to die for our sin.
Which comes first --- God's "choosing", or our "believing"? In John17:6, God gives "those who belong to Him, are given to Jesus". "Belonging", denotes "belief".You are reiterating what I stated. And them that believe He GIVES . . . . HE chooses.
Simply, to receive Jesus as Savior and Lord (Master!).What does believe mean?
While we have weak flesh, we sin; but we do not walk in sin, but rather abiding in Him we walk in repentance. And compared to the world, we sin rarely, not continually.You aren’t paying attention, again. You are missing the point and going off on a tangent.
Please do --- I'm missing your point. Abraham believed, and it was reckoned to him as rightouesness.Pay ATTENTION!!! Was Job one of those you are referring to?? How about Simeon and Anna, Joseph and Mary? How about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? Shall I go on???
It is impossible to be "truly believing" (saved), and "ungodly". Look at the qualities listed in 1Pet1:5-10; he who lacks qualities (including "godliness"), has forgotten former purification, will not receive the gates of Heaven.ABIC said:romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness ..
David repented --- we've discussed this.same way King David gets to be resurrected promised before adultry and murder
You would be better quoting John6:29, "It is the work of God that we believe."... but salvation is God work... john 1:13........... roman 4:8, heb 10:17
In no way does the context of that conflict "cannot be unrighteously-saved".1 cor 3:15 If any man's good work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Please read that verse again (11-13); if WE persevere, then we will reign with Him; but if we deny Him, then He will deny us (and we will NOT reign with Him, we will NOT enter Heaven!).2 tim 2:13 Since we are unfaithful, Yet He abideth faithful: He cannot deny himself.
Please read that verse again (11-13); if WE persevere, then we will reign with Him; but if we deny Him, then He will deny us (and we will NOT reign with Him, we will NOT enter Heaven!).
If we are faithless, A_Brother --- and there is no "faithlessl-saved"...
read romans 4:5 againIt is impossible to be "truly believing" (saved), and "ungodly". Look at the qualities listed in 1Pet1:5-10; he who lacks qualities (including "godliness"), has forgotten former purification, will not receive the gates of Heaven.
Yet why can we sin and go boldly to the throne of grace.... heb 4:16 ....David repented --- we've discussed this.
you change what that verse is sayingYou would be better quoting John6:29, "It is the work of God that we believe."
Yet every man is unrighteous.......yet, verse 27-28, says "God's work, that WE WORK (that we DO)."
In no way does the context of that conflict "cannot be unrighteously-saved".
adding things that are not there...Please read that verse again (11-13); if WE persevere, then we will reign with Him; but if we deny Him, then He will deny us (and we will NOT reign with Him, we will NOT enter Heaven!).
Around and around and around we goIf we are faithless, A_Brother --- and there is no "faithlessl-saved"...
friday will answerHave you ever answered Eph5:5-6? Gal5:19-21? 1Cor6:9-11? 1Jn3:5-10?
How so?
Which comes first --- God's "choosing", or our "believing"? In John17:6, God gives "those who belong to Him, are given to Jesus". "Belonging", denotes "belief". Simply, to receive Jesus as Savior and Lord (Master!).
While we have weak flesh, we sin; but we do not walk in sin, but rather abiding in Him we walk in repentance. And compared to the world, we sin rarely, not continually.
Please do --- I'm missing your point. Abraham believed, and it was reckoned to him as rightouesness.
We cannot walk in sin, for if we do, we are not walking in Christ (not saved). We who walk in Him, do not walk in sin.
"If we say that we have fellowship with Him but walk in darkness (sin!), we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all unrighteousness."
Let's discuss the passage:Ormly said:Brother your distinction making is woefully in lacking.
Perhaps it is the concept of "Gives". Per John6, "Those who come to Jesus, are given to Him by God --- and He will not cast them out."I started to respond to this but find I can't. Your response is so convoluted to me, I don't what to bring correction to first to get it back on track. Sorry.
We need to open a whole thread discussing the idea of "ungodly-saved".ABIC said:read romans 4:5 again
ungodly man that believes is counted in heaven righteous.... why 1 cor 12:12-13 by the Holy Spirit putting the ungodly into Christ they are counted righteous because of Christ work!
Can we deny that "ungodly", means "actively practicing sin"?1 jn 3:2-3 we have not be perfected till the rapture and we see His face
Jesus said, "Unless you REPENT, you will perish" --- Lk13:3 (5). How is there an "exception" for this?Yet why can we sin and go boldly to the throne of grace.... heb 4:16 ....
Not continual sin; as Heb10:26 says, continual sin isn't saved.sin has been paid for.....
confession is to remind ourselves who God is, what God has done.. and His promises
Then let's discuss John6:26-29.you change what that verse is saying
No, it says the begottenness[/b] is nothing of men and all of God --- verse 12 says "he who believes and receives Christ gains the right to BECOME God's children".john 1:13 states that man has no chance without God's calling
How is that true? Please tell me your understanding of 2Cor5:21.Yet every man is unrighteous....
Please see my previous post; I see two possibilities there...adding things that are not there...
We are "saved by grace through faith". How then can there be any kind of "faithlessly-saved"?Around and around and around we go
Awesome --- I look forward to your words.friday will answer
where the Jews that cross the red sea believers .... or are they the ones who worshipped idles ..... what does God say? let go to the chapter of faith Heb 11:27-29... they just did not get to recieve there reward do to unfaithfulness in there daily life thus God waited for physical death not spiritual ... which would be consisant of 1 cor 3:12-15If we are faithless, A_Brother --- and there is no "faithlessl-saved"...
Have you ever answered Eph5:5-6?
1Cor6:9-11?
Scripture says God chose us in Him before the world began. God's choosing definitely comes first. Whether you like it being a cause or not, temporally it's first.Which comes first --- God's "choosing", or our "believing"? In John17:6, God gives "those who belong to Him, are given to Jesus". "Belonging", denotes "belief".
1Jn3:5-10?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?