I can't say what I will believe in ten or twenty years from now.
Were I to die today, it would be with a clear conscience.
this did not really address my statement. What I can tell you regarding my position though to what you have said is that nothing can separate me from God and if I am faithless He is faithful. 10-20 years from now I will be just as secure as I am today.
A second nature denies the truth of 2 Cor 5:17 and Jesus' parable about new wine stored in new bottles..."or both will perish".
If the flesh was crucified, (and it is in the truly repentant), how can it "work against the new man"?
I have explained the meaning of the wineskins one is faith and righteousness the other justification by works. The old justification by works can not have the new faith equals righteousness poured into it. Paul explains how we have two nature’s in Romans 6-8. The flesh is not saved and never will be we contend with it and it is opposed to the new. Yes we are crucified with Christ. Now sanctification by His grace moves us from glory to glory. We do not practice sin but still have the ability to sin as the process continues.
It is obvious by their continued return to sin.
That refutes their repentance from sin.
We can't forge a relationship with God that is based on a lie.
no one has said they continuously return to sin and that there is no victory in a OSAS life this is your false assumption. You deny the fact that you live in a fallen world and in a fallen “body“. If your body wasn’t fallen you would never get sick, be tired ect.... stop acting as if you have a glorified body. Your flesh is not saved and as Paul stated we have two nature’s which even he struggled with.
Our "good behavior" manifests we have turned from sin and unto God.
It shows we "follow" the good Shepherd.
It shows we believe all that God has said.
no it shows that you have been made righteous by the blood of Christ. Everything else is your assumption that your self effort of works can bring about righteousness, what you do. When you understand the grace of God then that revelation will cause sin to leave. Victory comes to those who know it is nothing of themselves but of God. Of good behavior came from turning from sin and following God why did He not keep the old system of works in keeping laws equals righteousness. Obviously God saw fit to leave this old system.
Folks who still serve sin serve another lord than Jesus.
He said no man can serve two masters, and in fact will hate the one and love the other.
Servants of sin hate God.
just because someone fails in their flesh does not make them a servant of sin. A servant of sin would be someone continuously sinning without any care that they are. You are not sinless and perfect before God as you have stated earlier. It’s a ridiculous statement and you keep repeating it.
As you said, we keep God's laws by the blood of the Lamb being on us".
Those who do not keep God's laws (love God above all else and love your neighbor as yourself) don't have the blood of the Lamb on them.
They never were crucified with Christ, with the affections and lusts.
I will just repost my statement to your response below.
Ok but how are you righteous. You have said repeatedly that your own obedience is what God judges you on. If it is by works it is no longer by grace. I’m not talking about dietary laws here I am talking about mosaic laws. You are unable to by your own strength keep these laws no man has ever besides Jesus. If you plan on offering God your own righteous efforts they will fall to the ground. We keep Gods laws by the blood of the Lamb being on us this is what God looks at this is what makes us righteous. Once grace is established then by the spirit we see the fruit of God in our lives. Continuing that thought the fact that there is now no condemnation can this be made a reality but self efforts to keep the law will only bring about condemnation because you will fail, well not you but everyone else.
As you already know what causes "victory over sin" why would one still sin?
You are giving the us "cure" but still suffering from the "disease".
I am giving you the cure. Christ alone can make us eternally secure and righteous, through that fact we are sanctified in the fact that our flesh has been crucified. The ability to posses the victory comes by grace in who we are in Him.
Again, the cure and still subject to the disease?
BTW, Peter wrote..."For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" (
1 Peter 4:17)
There is a judgement coming for all men.
we already covered this but I will add that judgment does not come for those who are saved by faith and made the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. Jesus bore my judgment on the cross which has freed me to serve Him in the spirit.
is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
Those still carnal are not Christ's.
BTW, Paul was narrating his past while still in the flesh in Rom 7.
The proof?
Rom 7:23..."But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members."
It is already dealt with in Rom 8:2..."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."
The law of sin in his members has been eclipsed by the law of the Spirit of Christ.
And Rom 7:24..."O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"
It was already confronted in Rom 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
The law of sin is gone, and the old body you keep crediting for ongoing sin is gone too.
Paul was talking in the present tense. Yes the flesh is crucified with Christ, He has condemned the flesh but our flesh is not saved there is a process of sanctification. This notion that you throw out that once you are baptized you never sin again is not biblical.
Yet they somehow thought they had inherited eternal life.
Maybe they blamed an undead "body of sin" for their iniquity?
or they were never made righteous by faith. I “””””””NEVER””””””” knew you. Also “”””””in that day”””””” what day is that obviously they are at judgment. So they call Him Lord because it is obvious that He is Lord.
Faith without love is hate.
If one doesn't have faith that God will destroy the wicked, they will never love Jesus for what He accomplished on our behalf.
Jesus takes a different stance for He did not come to judge but to save, we are in a dispensation of grace and currently that is the heart of God. God wishes all men would come to Him but you’re telling me that instead of loving God for the fact that He has shown such great love to me that I should love Him because he will one day punish the wicked. I would rather see all men brought into the kingdom by the blood of the lamb.
There are no righteous sinners.
Sin is unrighteousness.
And look what the Lord has done. Why do you think God even sent His Son. He has made the sinner righteous by the finished work on the cross now we grow through grace and sanctification.
If you have two natures, you have poured new wine (Spirit of God) into old bottles (old body of sin).
Both shall perish.
that is not what the wineskins mean I have told you my point on this I won’t repeat it.
That doesn't answer my question.
Why are you still a servant of sin, if you love God so much and have faith He can free us from sin?
He has freed us from sin
My "original repentance" was from sin.
If one "turns from" sin, they don't sin anymore.
That, in tandem with my God ordained baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins made me a washed ex-sinner.
That equates to righteous.
It’s interesting that in the many years I’ve been a spirit filled believer of Christ I’ve only heard 3 people in my life talk like you. Involved with multiple denominations 1,000’s and 1000’s of sermons but just a few of you. Faith, righteousness and then sanctification to being rooted and producing fruit. God does the work not us in our efforts.
I don't know why you can't see that my baptism in water was the washing by the blood of Christ for the remission of my past sins. (
1 John 5:8)
I have not said the word baptism to you until this set of posts. I have no problem with baptism whatsoever nor am I attacking you for it. My only point is that baptism can not save you. Only the blood of the lamb can make one righteous and give them victory in their life.
I do, as He provided everything I needed, and still need, to keep manifesting the kingdom of God on earth...to His glory.
By His grace I received the gift of repentance from sin, the gift of baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of past sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost, the gift of tongues, and much more.
He didn't need to do anything, but in His kindness not only sacrificed His Son for my propitiation, but all I require to remain in His light.
great statement except one thing you are not able to remain in His light on your own self effort. If we are in the light as He is in the light Jesus then purifies us from all sin. If one is in the light as He is in the light why would we have to be washed? We are in the light already and we are being washed. The very next statement in scripture is if we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. Which sounds a lot like what you are continuously doing.
You are saying you have fellowship with God even though you walk in darkness. (
1 John 1:6)
BUT, if you turn from sin and start walking in the light-God, you too can begin to walk "unbroken".
Consider the warnings I bring as further grace.
I do not walk in darkness but in the light for I have been made righteous by the blood of the lamb.
There is nothing like the favor of God.
I will do anything for it.
Gods favor comes from what Jesus has done for you. He fulfilled the law and all the blessings that come along with that fulfillment are afforded to those who have put their trust and faith in Him. You can not earn His favor.
Yes, except I don't have the gift of healing.
Your discourse reminds me of the Pharisee's arguments against Jesus.
They trusted in the OT Law of Moses for their salvation, but without the love for God or their neighbors Jesus insisted on.
You believe in a doctrine of faith and grace, without the love that would show that belief or grace.
Don't remain in such dire straits.
For further discussion on perfect obedience to God, we must converse privately.
The moderators are not big fans of the subject.
what? Just throwing things out there now hoping they will stick.
Servant of sin would mean one whom is a slave to sin and can not break free this is terminology you keep using I have never indicated this but have stated Christians deal with two separate nature’s. Paul was talking in the present tense we have two nature’s or why would he address both nature’s as conflicting with each other. If a unsaved man is unsaved what does he care about the new nature. If one who has a new nature and is no longer contending with the unsaved flesh then what does he care about the old nature. Paul spoke of both conflicting with each other, what would be the point of this if one is no longer relevant to the other. You are not sinless upon conversion in your flesh but in your inner man by Christ’s righteousness that is where you are sinless. How do you explain sanctification, what is it’s role? Sanctification is the process we are under to remove sin from our flesh as the new nature rules. Sanctification is the process of that righteousness in you overcoming the flesh daily. While this process is happening we have the assurance from God that we are eternally secure which in turn will not allow condemnation to come over us. The fact that we are eternally secure and made righteous is what gives us the power or ability to overcome sin. The fulfillment of the law by Christ has in turn made one who is in faith righteous, and because of this now the flesh which is carnal and weak does not have to do the impossible which is keep the spiritual law, for Christ has done that for us. Once we are freed from the law we can now keep it by the spirit so Christ has made us keepers of the law not by our own actions but by His one action on the cross. I am providing the cure in this statement above you are desiring to perfect yourself by your own righteousness.
We have been doing nothing but reciting our own points back and forth to each other. You know what I believe and I know what you believe so perhaps we can have a discussion on another topic another time for this one has more than run it’s course. God bless.