Poll on salvation. Eternal security (osas) vs. works and grace are both required.

[Blood Bought 1953]

You've rewritten it to what you wish he had actually said. But that wasn't it.

Romans 8:38....
For I am certain that nothing can separate us from his love: neither death nor life, neither angels nor other heavenly rulers or powers, neither the present nor the FUTURE......

 

[Phil W]

Phil W, post: My original repentance was my "turn from" sin.

Show me anywhere in the KJV where it says “ repent from sins to be saved” and I will give you $ 1000 dollars....good luck....

That exact phrase isn't in the KJV of the bible.
But this is..."When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." (Acts 11:18)
No repentance , no life.

So is this..."Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." (Acts 5:31-32)

Did you really think God would give the gift of the Holy Ghost to those who don't turn from sin?

This is also written..."Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities." (Acts 3:26)
No turning, no blessing.

 

[Phil W]

Romans 8:38....
For I am certain that nothing can separate us from his love: neither death nor life, neither angels nor other heavenly rulers or powers, neither the present nor the FUTURE......

Its just too bad I guess that some can't love Him in return.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Did you really think God would give the gift of the Holy Ghost to those who don't turn from sin?

All one has to do to get the Holy Spirit s to ask for it.....” ALL that ask shall receive”

This is also written..."Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities." (Acts 3:26)
No turning, no blessing.

The “ turning” away from Sin is a Natural by-product Of The New Heart — Given to all Believers. That is how Jesus “ blessed” the Jews and this is how He blesses us....No “New Heart”—- obtained by Faith Plus Nothing In Paul’s Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4— No Blessing......Jesus blesses us by giving us the Holy Spirit and that Spirit changes “ the inside of the cup”.......Iniquities have a way of “ falling by the way-side” as God does HIS work of transforming us into the image of His Son
Legalists can please fellow religionists and garner praise from their religious buddies by changing their outside behaviors.....only God can get to the Root Of the problem—- the Heart.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Its just too bad I guess that some can't love Him in return.

That is true......it’s NOT we were discussing...

If one decides to leave God’s Hand after he has been saved——- that would have to be a FUTURE event, wouldn’t it? The verse I provided proves that God has that covered.....when God said “ NOTHING” can take us from His Hand , He actually meant “ Nothing”....That would include YOU leaving it....
Please address the Subject with no deflections....thanks..

 

[Phil W]

All one has to do to get the Holy Spirit s to ask for it.....” ALL that ask shall receive”

It is written that God doesn't hear sinners. (John 9:31, 1 Peter 3:12)

The “ turning” away from Sin is a Natural by-product Of The New Heart — Given to all Believers. That is how Jesus “ blessed” the Jews and this is how He blesses us....No “New Heart”—- obtained by Faith Plus Nothing In Paul’s Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4— No Blessing......Jesus blesses us by giving us the Holy Spirit and that Spirit changes “ the inside of the cup”.......Iniquities have a way of “ falling by the way-side” as God does HIS work of transforming us into the image of His on

If one doesn't "turn from sin" then, they have no new heart.
They are not blessed.

Legalists can please fellow religionists and garner praise from their religious buddies by changing their outside behaviors.....only God can get to the Root Of the problem—- the Heart.

And without turning from sin, they get no new anything. (Acts 2:38)
They are unchanged.
They are still "spotted by this world." (James 1:27..."Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."

 

[Phil W]

That is true......it’s NOT we were discussing...

If one decides to leave God’s Hand after he has been saved——- that would have to be a FUTURE event, wouldn’t it? The verse I provided proves that God has that covered.....when God said “ NOTHING” can take us from His Hand , He actually meant “ Nothing”....That would include YOU leaving it....
Please address the Subject with no deflections....thanks..

There is no salvation till after the final judgement.
They are not saved till Jesus separates the sheep from the goats.

Those seemingly "taken from God's hand" were never in His hand to begin with.
That which is born of God cannot bear the fruit of the devil.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

There is no salvation till after the final judgement.
They are not saved till Jesus separates the sheep from the goats.

Wrong.
Jesus told the Sinful woman that wiped her tears from the feet of Jesus with her hair—- “ Your FAITH has SAVED you....go in peace....” How do you explain that?

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

[QUOTE="Phil W, ]It is written that God doesn't hear Sinners.....

How do you explain the story that Jesus told about the sinful Tax Collector? He was such a Sinner That when he stood in the Temple to pray, he would not even lift his eyes up toward heaven....all he could say is , “ Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner....” Jesus said the man went home “Justified”, another Word for “Saved”. How do you explain that one?

 

[klutedavid]

There is no salvation till after the final judgement.
They are not saved till Jesus separates the sheep from the goats.

Those seemingly "taken from God's hand" were never in His hand to begin with.
That which is born of God cannot bear the fruit of the devil.

Here is another verse for you.

Ephesians 2:4-6
But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ by grace you have been saved, and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Since you seem to not be able to take a hint, I'm kind of done with this conversation. Apologies if I didn't make that clear.

You've not made very much clear.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Sure you can, and do with your POV that those who don't "follow Him" have eternal life. (John 10:27-28)

You actually know better than this tripe.

Only those who believe in Him are given eternal life.

john 3-
15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.
1 John 5-
11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

These verses PROVE that the possession of eternal life is based on believing in Jesus as the Christ.

And, you can't find ANY verse that says eternal life is by following Him. There are lots of religious people who follow Jesus. They give to the poor, they feed the hungry, they provide housing for the homeless, etc, etc, etc. And they think that by doing these things, they will get into heaven.

 

[FreeGrace2]

There is no salvation till after the final judgement.

Scripture says otherwise.

John 3-
15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.
1 John 5-
11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Are you now going to argue that possessing eternal life is somehow different than salvation?

They are not saved till Jesus separates the sheep from the goats.

No, they are saved WHEN they believe and are given eternal life. Johh 10:28.

 

[Phil W]

Wrong.
Jesus told the Sinful woman that wiped her tears from the feet of Jesus with her hair—- “ Your FAITH has SAVED you....go in peace....” How do you explain that?

As Jesus said previously..."And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven."
He saved her from the destruction the sinners would receive at their final judgement.
If she keeps on sinning though, it will matter little.

 

[Phil W]

[QUOTE="Phil W, ]It is written that God doesn't hear Sinners.....

How do you explain the story that Jesus told about the sinful Tax Collector? He was such a Sinner That when he stood in the Temple to pray, he would not even lift his eyes up toward heaven....all he could say is , “ Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner....” Jesus said the man went home “Justified”, another Word for “Saved”. How do you explain that one?

You mean the parable?
What did the tax collector do at the alter?
His remorse is quite evident, and as 2 Cor 7:10 later explains..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death."
His godly sorrow was evident in his repentance.
Real repentance from anything, is final, permanent.
His repentance created an ex-sinner...and God heard him.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I’m curious what this community believes regarding salvation. Interested to see peoples interpretation of why they believe what they believe from the scriptures.

John 15 is probably the strongest piece of evidence from scripture that refutes OSAS. This message Jesus gives to His 11 faithful apostles telling them to remain in Him, why they should remain in Him, the consequences of failing to remain in Him, and what they can expect from God if they remain in Him is pretty overwhelming evidence in my opinion.


“"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:1-10‬ ‭NASB‬‬

 

[Phil W]

Here is another verse for you.

Ephesians 2:4-6
But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ by grace you have been saved, and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

Why do you feel this cancels out our final judgement?
Between the time we were raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, (Rom 6:4), and quickened by the Spirit, (Rom 8:11), till we are called home, we will do many more things.
Our final judgement will deal with those actions.
I may be seated with Christ, but I am also here in this vessel...all to the glory of God.

 

[Phil W]

Only those who believe in Him are given eternal life.

I agree.

john 3-
15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.
1 John 5-
11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
These verses PROVE that the possession of eternal life is based on believing in Jesus as the Christ.

Again, I agree.

And, you can't find ANY verse that says eternal life is by following Him. There are lots of religious people who follow Jesus. They give to the poor, they feed the hungry, they provide housing for the homeless, etc, etc, etc. And they think that by doing these things, they will get into heaven.

Jesus said His sheep follow Him.
Adulterers, liars, idolaters, and thieves are not following Him.

 

[Phil W]

Scripture says otherwise.

John 3-
15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.
1 John 5-
11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Are you now going to argue that possessing eternal life is somehow different than salvation?

No, they are saved WHEN they believe and are given eternal life. Johh 10:28.

There are no sinners "in His Son".
Sinners "don't believe" there will be a final judgement, and they don't fear God.

 

[FreeGrace2]

John 15 is probably the strongest piece of evidence from scripture that refutes OSAS.

Not even close. John 10:28 is the single clearest verse on eternal security.

In fact, John 15 is about bearing fruit. One must be IN FELLOWSHIP, or "remain in Him" to do that.

But I've noticed that Arminians don't understand what fellowship is.