• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Please explain to me why homosexuality is anathema to God.

Is it strange to enforce this physical limitation when the afterlife's more importnt?

  • Yes.

  • No.

  • I've never given it much thought before ...


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Jet_A_Jockey

Jet+Jetslove=2gether4ever :)
Site Supporter
Mar 9, 2006
11,279
1,082
hurricane central
Visit site
✟62,391.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
And loving children is more important in one's love of God than mere biology.

Actually loving God comes before everything, children included.

Here's a few passages from matthew

34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
40He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
 
Upvote 0
P

Phinehas2

Guest
Dear Ohioprof,
This makes no sense.
How can it not make sense?

Are you proposing that children cant be produced by a male and female?
Are you suggesting just by having a sexual attraction one can produce children between two people without any sexual activity?
Are you proposing two people of the same sex having intercourse can produce children?
 
Upvote 0
P

Phinehas2

Guest
Dear EnemyPartyII
No. I will NOT forget the loving part... THAT is the important part!

Love is a ZILLION time more important than biology...
No forget the loving part as the basis as just loving people cant produce children, one has to have male and a female sexual activity. I didn’t forget love .. It is better to be loving biological parents than loving adoptive parents, … but I didn’t forget biology either which you seem to be doing.

Jesus had an adoptive father.
Jesus was perfect.
Therefore adoptive parents are just as capable as biological ones.
In parenting yes but not in immaculate conception. I am not disputing the parenting part I am asking you to address the biological facts, something you seem unwilling to do.

Please also note that Jesus had a Father and a mother, he didn’t have same-sex parents, and neither are we to have them.
 
Upvote 0
P

Phinehas2

Guest
Dear Aetheriuslamia,

I don't understand what you're attempting to say.
Why not its very straightforward. Let me take you through it step by step..

‘children are produced by a male and female’ yes?
‘homosexuality is peoples sexual attraction’ yes?
‘sexual attraction alone does not produce children’ yes?
‘a man and a woman in sexual intercourse does’, yes?
‘homosexuality, or same-sex attraction would usually lead to a man and woman not having sexual intercourse’ because they are not sexually attracted , yes?

Your entire argument seems to hinge on the fact that heterosexual intercourse produces children,
No you haven’t understood what I have pointed out that heterosexual and homosexual are sexual attractions and not sexual activity. Sexual intercourse between male and female produces children, sexual intercourse between male and male doesn’t.

condemn homosexual love.
What does homosexual love mean? Homosexual means having a same-sex attraction, homosexual love mean same-sex attraction love? Do you mean sex or love?

If you cannot explain to me why you feel God does not condone homosexual marriages, please leave.
If you cant understand then maybe you should leave. I don’t feel that God does not condone same-sex unions, I can see from His word that He doesn’t.


I have heard your opinion on the Bible, and I have heard I think every argument you have as to why homosexuality is wrong: you think it's unnatural and can't produce kids. If that's everything you have to say, thank you for saying it.
Nope. Same-sex sex cant produce children, it’s a scientific and natural fact, The Bible says man and woman produce children so the Bible is right and my opinion of the Bible is it is true and God’s word, your opinion on both seems outside all reality.

 
Upvote 0

AetheriusLamia

Regular Member
Aug 13, 2007
274
32
Region or City
✟27,857.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Wow that clears everything up. I guess incest is okay now too, since its in that same group of laws also.
It's called "context". It doesn't matter where in the Bible it's written. What matters is the meaning of the text.

Shellfish and gay male sex rules were made for a much different reason than incest. I actually spoke with a Jew the other day who told me one reason male homosexual sex was specifically forbidden -- while gay female sex was omitted entirely -- was because at the time, they were trying to build the jewish nation, and gay male sex was seen as sperm wasted. (Sperm that could have gone to creating another jewish child was instead discarded. It seems clear that the same reasoning is partially behind the story of Omar and the Levirate marriage, when he pulled out and wasted his sperm.)

Thus many jewish people have no problems with homosexuality today, because they realize it was never condemned by God in the first place. Similar to Fundamentalist Christians, the Orthodox Jews still have problems with it ... perhaps because they still keep to the old way of thinking (which we see now is not entirely accurate.)
 
Upvote 0

Ohioprof

Contributor
Jun 27, 2007
988
219
70
✟28,933.00
Faith
Unitarian
Dear Aetheriuslamia,

Why not its very straightforward. Let me take you through it step by step..
‘children are produced by a male and female’ yes?
‘homosexuality is peoples sexual attraction’ yes?
‘sexual attraction alone does not produce children’ yes?
‘a man and a woman in sexual intercourse does’, yes?
‘homosexuality, or same-sex attraction would usually lead to a man and woman not having sexual intercourse’ because they are not sexually attracted , yes?

No you haven’t understood what I have pointed out that heterosexual and homosexual are sexual attractions and not sexual activity. Sexual intercourse between male and female produces children, sexual intercourse between male and male doesn’t.
What does homosexual love mean? Homosexual means having a same-sex attraction, homosexual love mean same-sex attraction love? Do you mean sex or love?
If you cant understand then maybe you should leave. I don’t feel that God does not condone same-sex unions, I can see from His word that He doesn’t.

Nope. Same-sex sex cant produce children, it’s a scientific and natural fact, The Bible says man and woman produce children so the Bible is right and my opinion of the Bible is it is true and God’s word, your opinion on both seems outside all reality.
Sex between elderly and infertile heterosexuals can't produce children either, but you don't criticize their marriages. Why you think that the ability or inability to produce children in a particular way is a reason to denigrate gay relationships is beyond me.
 
Upvote 0

AetheriusLamia

Regular Member
Aug 13, 2007
274
32
Region or City
✟27,857.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
I am sick of this stupid forum stripping quotations from quoted posts. Is there a way to stop that from happening? It's so incredibly stupid, because it makes it damn near impossible to reply to a reply without losing context. It's idiotic. Surely our admins are not too stupid to realize this?
that which is unnatural. and what is unnatural you may ask? each other.

its about as clear as that glass window on the windex commercial that the guy walks into :D
Those are all assumptions. I completely disagree with you -- the only thing making someone unnatural to someone else is if those two do not get along.
Good thing only God is the ultimate Judge. We can speculate all we want, but it changes nothing. And to deny repentance of something that the heart is convicted of as sinful is bound to have repercussions, regardless of what it is.
I completely agree. It's a good thing, I think, that through all my prayer, God has led me to believe that he will still love me as I pursue a homosexual marriage. (Well, except for the fact that I'm trying to get a girlfriend first.)
In what manner does He behave?
I was referring to Floatingaxe and people like her's depiction of God, who believe that if I, and others like me, love others of the same sex in a marital relationship, that God will damn us to hell.
You have the commandments switched, Love God > Love neighbor.
The order in which I listed them is not the order in which I hold them. Obviously God comes first.
And yes it is a difficult thing to really dwell on, temporal actions = eternal consequences, but thats a whole different topic honestly.
Agreed.
Possibly because it could be seen as a mockery to His creation, His helper to man, which is woman, and vice versa.
I really don't see how. I see how male complements female (except you must overlook hermaphroditic organisms, which seem to be doing well, are they not?) but I don't understand how homosexuality could be construed as a mockery. Artificial insemination among lesbians is a mockery of God's creative design.

To say that a man going after another man insults God ... It's kind of like ... you have a choice between fruit and pizza for lunch. Choosing pizza, because you like it much more, may be not what God intended, but it's certainly not offensive to God: God created pizza. It seems -- especially to every single homosexual you'll ask, barring perhaps jawsmetroid and the few others who have been persuaded that it's bad -- that God had a hand in their gayness. Even science has realized that genetics plays some mysterious role.

between that and the whole procreation thing I think it defines it pretty well.
That's another assumption about what you think it should be defined as. You're appealing to tradition, and tradition can be (and has been: see slavery) wrong.
If their psychological problems caused them to go on killing sprees, why would God find that intolerable?
Completely irrelevant and poor analogy.
 
Upvote 0
P

Phinehas2

Guest
Dear Aetheriuslamia,
It's called "context".
Yes, but we who follow Jesus who has fulfilled the OT law and prophets are not judged by the law. Jesus taught that it is ok to eat all foods, see Mark 7 and Romans 14, yet we keep getting asked about eating shell fish from the OT prohibition. The first question is why? The second question is for what reason is the question being posed, as the poser knows what our answer is.
The third question is why do the people who pose this question never says whether they uphold the law or not.
Shellfish and gay male sex rules were made for a much different reason than incest.
So why ask about shelffish in response to same-sex sex?

I actually spoke with a Jew the other day who told me one reason male homosexual sex was specifically forbidden -- while gay female sex was omitted entirely -- was because at the time, they were trying to build the jewish nation, and gay male sex was seen as sperm wasted. (Sperm that could have gone to creating another jewish child was instead discarded. It seems clear that the same reasoning is partially behind the story of Omar and the Levirate marriage, when he pulled out and wasted his sperm.)
Ok but Jews arent Christians are they and I am a Christian. Secondly, in the account of Onan it says his spilling of the seed was `ayin which is better translated 'displeasing' yet when Lots does say the men wanting sex with the men is wicked ra`a` there seems to be less enthusiasm.
Genesis 38 is not the Levitical law that same-sex sex and eating shellfish comes from, when it comes to context your point is wildly adrift. In Levititcus 18 and 20 it says dont do these things such as incest, beastiality and same-sex sex because it defiles and the pagans do it. Thats why Jet_A_Jockey was in context with his unanswred question.
Fundamentalist Christians, the Orthodox Jews still have problems with it ... perhaps because they still keep to the old way of thinking (which we see now is not entirely accurate.)
Nope, as far as classification goes, true Jews and true Christians believe the Old and New Covenants respectively, those who dont arent really Jews or Christians but rather religious liberals.
 
Upvote 0

walloffire

Well-Known Member
Oct 4, 2007
703
0
✟970.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Num 14:17 And now, I beseech thee, let the power of my Lord be great, according as thou hast spoken, saying,
Num 14:18 The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.
Num 14:19 Pardon, I beseech thee, the iniquity of this people according unto the greatness of thy mercy, and as thou hast forgiven this people, from Egypt even until now.
Num 14:20 And the LORD said, I have pardoned according to thy word:
Num 14:21 But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD.
 
Upvote 0

AetheriusLamia

Regular Member
Aug 13, 2007
274
32
Region or City
✟27,857.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Phinehas,

It is silly to try to classify someone, especially you've never even seen, as "not a Jew" or "not a Christian." See Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis for more reasons why.

*sigh* Eight pages and not one substantial argument. I'm really becoming convinced that God truly doesn't have a problem with homosexuality and that you guys are just sadly mistaken. And it's not just here. I have searched online, been to three different web forums, and all the arguments are more opinion than fact, and more fallacious reasoning than valid.

So, worst case scenario: God doesn't like homosexuality, but God will forgive us for misinterpreting the Bible's ambiguous text regarding this matter.
 
Upvote 0

Ohioprof

Contributor
Jun 27, 2007
988
219
70
✟28,933.00
Faith
Unitarian
Dear Aetheriuslamia,
Yes, but we who follow Jesus who has fulfilled the OT law and prophets are not judged by the law. Jesus taught that it is ok to eat all foods, see Mark 7 and Romans 14, yet we keep getting asked about eating shell fish from the OT prohibition. The first question is why? The second question is for what reason is the question being posed, as the poser knows what our answer is.
The third question is why do the people who pose this question never says whether they uphold the law or not.
So why ask about shelffish in response to same-sex sex?

Ok but Jews arent Christians are they and I am a Christian. Secondly, in the account of Onan it says his spilling of the seed was `ayin which is better translated 'displeasing' yet when Lots does say the men wanting sex with the men is wicked ra`a` there seems to be less enthusiasm.
Genesis 38 is not the Levitical law that same-sex sex and eating shellfish comes from, when it comes to context your point is wildly adrift. In Levititcus 18 and 20 it says dont do these things such as incest, beastiality and same-sex sex because it defiles and the pagans do it. Thats why Jet_A_Jockey was in context with his unanswred question.
Nope, as far as classification goes, true Jews and true Christians believe the Old and New Covenants respectively, those who dont arent really Jews or Christians but rather religious liberals.
So in your thinking liberals cannot be Christians or Jews? The whole liberal branch of Christianity must be lopped off and driven from the fold?
 
Upvote 0

walloffire

Well-Known Member
Oct 4, 2007
703
0
✟970.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
So in your thinking liberals cannot be Christians or Jews? The whole liberal branch of Christianity must be lopped off and driven from the fold?

Its lopped itself off since it refuses to abide in the love of the Father.

Joh 15:10 "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. "

Liberals say "the commandments don't apply to us" - Jesus says they do apply, and that if we love Jesus we'll obey his commandments. Liberals believe "commandments" means "suggestions" or "opinions". God's opinion is law.
 
Upvote 0

walloffire

Well-Known Member
Oct 4, 2007
703
0
✟970.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Phinehas,

It is silly to try to classify someone, especially you've never even seen, as "not a Jew" or "not a Christian." See Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis for more reasons why.

*sigh* Eight pages and not one substantial argument. I'm really becoming convinced that God truly doesn't have a problem with homosexuality and that you guys are just sadly mistaken. And it's not just here. I have searched online, been to three different web forums, and all the arguments are more opinion than fact, and more fallacious reasoning than valid.

So, worst case scenario: God doesn't like homosexuality, but God will forgive us for misinterpreting the Bible's ambiguous text regarding this matter.


bzzzzzzzzzzz wrong
 
Upvote 0

EnemyPartyII

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2006
11,524
893
39
✟20,084.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
In Relationship
Its lopped itself off since it refuses to abide in the love of the Father.

Joh 15:10 "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. "

Liberals say "the commandments don't apply to us" - Jesus says they do apply, and that if we love Jesus we'll obey his commandments. Liberals believe "commandments" means "suggestions" or "opinions". God's opinion is law.
I don't think anyone here ever said "the commandments don't apply to us"

Of course, there is no commandment against homosexuality, so theres no problem.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.