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Please, differentiate yourselves from my father

Polycarp_fan

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I would like to know how anti gay christians differentiate themselves from my father.

He believed a group of people were degenerate and out to undermine society.
Anti Gay Christians believe that a group of people are degenerate and out to undermine society.

He believed that a group of people were a danger to children.
Anti Gay Christians believe that a group of people are a danger to children.

He believed that a group of people did not deserve equal rights despite the fact that it would not impact him in the least.
Anti Gay Christians believe that a group of people do not deserve equal rights despite the fact it would no impact them in the least.

Please, explain to me how you differ from each other here?

Pro family. That is the Christian "Anti Gay" position.

Please explain more about your father's position. What group is he comparing to Gays.

If it is the KKK the similarities would still be a bit off. They both desire to rule society and force everyone to submit to rule, but Gays are usally just lascivious and licentious and hardly openly talk about their violent side.
 
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HaloHope

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Good thread.

The similarities between the way some Christians stand in the way of civil rights for gay people and the way way some Christians stood in the way of civil rights for black people are fair comparison in my honest opinion.

Fortunately this leads me to also believe that in the future (something that is already occouring in parts of Europe) anti-homosexual stances (and by anti-homosexual I mean somebody who votes to restrict the rights of gay people) will be looked down on in the same way racism is today.
 
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Polycarp_fan

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Originally Posted by BreadAlone
He was wrong. I mean, what are you looking for here? Do you have some kind of a question, or is this just another stab at Christianity??​


Isn't it obvious? She's looking for approval from others for her same-sex sexual relationship. Something she clearly never got from her father. Gay people often refer to this as "acceptance".

Why is that so many atheists and and typical anti-Christians (gays, skeptics, liberals, progressives, humanists, et al) need so much interactions with Christians? I never hang out on those websites. I've been to a few, but the rote sickens me quickly.







 
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BreadAlone

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I don't think they actually desire interaction. I think God is leading them to us so that we may proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ so that those with ears to hear, will hear.

I applaud your Optimism!! :thumbsup:
 
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Caylin

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Why is that so many atheists and and typical anti-Christians (gays, skeptics, liberals, progressives, humanists, et al) need so much interactions with Christians? I never hang out on those websites. I've been to a few, but the rote sickens me quickly.







[/INDENT]

I've explained why I come here. You wish to legislate against my secular rights based on your religion.

I've yet to see *anyone* answer how they are different from my father by the way.
 
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Dunin

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For those who still haven't gotten the question she is posing, I think her straight as an arrow blond hair blue-eyed brother will fill in for her.

She is asking you to differentiate specific anti-homosexual arguments from racist arguments who have the exact same rhetoric.

Please do not use the bible as your shield here, there are many anti-Semetic to be taken out of the new testament.
 
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Polycarp_fan

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For those who still haven't gotten the question she is posing, I think her straight as an arrow blond hair blue-eyed brother will fill in for her.

She is asking you to differentiate specific anti-homosexual arguments from racist arguments who have the exact same rhetoric.

Please do not use the bible as your shield here, there are many anti-Semetic to be taken out of the new testament.

This is a Christian website pal. Please, if you would, point out the "anti-semitic" statements to be taken out of the New Testament. You can't take a whack at the NT and then say "you can't use the New Testament," to reply to your wrong position.

Ain't honest pal.

So, if you would, the anti-semitism "in" the NT?

I'll be interested in seeing what the JEWISH Christians have to say about all JEWS?" As in "anti-semitism." As in ALL of the Apostles BEING Jewish. Even the add-on Apostle Paul. He was a "Jew" too. By the way.

The OP is a good one but only slightly.

Homosexuality is a sex act, it can be disapproved of differently than some of the other things she mentions.

It is a cunning and dishonest ploy of the homosexual culture and community and its atheist and pagan supporters to equate sex acts with race or gender or being rich or poor. You need to be able to work things out "in context" to see the silliness, nonsense or malice of the OP.
 
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Dunin

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This is a Christian website pal. Please, if you would, point out the "anti-semitic" statements to be taken out of the New Testament. You can't take a whack at the NT and then say "you can't use the New Testament," to reply to your wrong position.

Ain't honest pal.

So, if you would, the anti-semitism "in" the NT?

I'll be interested in seeing what the JEWISH Christians have to say about all JEWS?" As in "anti-semitism." As in ALL of the Apostles BEING Jewish. Even the add-on Apostle Paul. He was a "Jew" too. By the way.

The OP is a good one but only slightly.

Homosexuality is a sex act, it can be disapproved of differently than some of the other things she mentions.

It is a cunning and dishonest ploy of the homosexual culture and community and its atheist and pagan supporters to equate sex acts with race or gender or being rich or poor. You need to be able to work things out "in context" to see the silliness, nonsense or malice of the OP.

Hey, pal, it is a valid argument to show that the bible can be used for both racism and anti-homosexuality when my sister is asking to be shown how the arguments differ.

I'd say it is a valid point to make, many of the same arguments have just been recycled from a different age, it seems. You are missing the point of the OP.

And pal,you forgot Jesus was a Jew as well.
 
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Polycarp_fan

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Hey, pal, it is a valid argument to show that the bible can be used for both racism and anti-homosexuality when my sister is asking to be shown how the arguments differ.

So, as usual, this OP has some kind of gay agenda. Mmm hmm. Oops, the sub-forum.

I'd say it is a valid point to make, many of the same arguments have just been recycled from a different age, it seems. You are missing the point of the OP.

I'd say that what a person "thinks" is far different than race or melanin content. Homosexuality is a sex act. Black, White, Jew, Hindu, gay sex is gay sex. Equating sex acts to a minority clasification is absurd. Don't we have enogh hyphenated people already? Now we need sex acts added to the list? What's next. I know many people the "love" their pets. :confused:

And pal,you forgot Jesus was a Jew as well.

Jesus, the Jew, never wrote one word of the New Testament. He left that to His Jewish followers.

I'm pretty sure I have this New Testament thing in the right perspective. Especially since the Apostles and the Disciples wrote so much on this subject.

See, I'm thinking that the OP was just another gay agenda tactic for attacking Christians. It appears I am right on that too.
 
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Polycarp_fan

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I would like to know how anti gay christians differentiate themselves from my father.

He believed a group of people were degenerate and out to undermine society.

He may have been wrong on some groups and individuals. You have to judge each thing seprately. That is the open-minded thing to do.

Anti Gay Christians believe that a group of people are degenerate and out to undermine society.

Which group or groups do these Christian hold that view on? The only one that comes to mind as provable is homosexuality.

He believed that a group of people were a danger to children.

A very smart man your father. He is totally right. And looking at what is going on in our public schools he must have meant liberal and progressive "teachers." Kids are engaging in incredible amounts of sexual perversion with the encouragement of public school staff. They even hold meetings about these things on campus.

Anti Gay Christians believe that a group of people are a danger to children.

Once again reality.

He believed that a group of people did not deserve equal rights despite the fact that it would not impact him in the least.

Your father must have been a well-educated man, or at least, knew all about society. Hardly does one group not effect another. Look at welfare checks and see. Look at "Pimps" for example, they even exist within the African American community and have become horrifyingly enough, cultural icons to some in and out, of that community.

"Pimps," are peope that claim the rights to rule over other people. Very much like a slave to his/her owner. Yet, you see a youth culture that "Pimps" thieir rides and each other with no thought about reality.

I guess most people don't learn from history.

Anti Gay Christians believe that a group of people do not deserve equal rights despite the fact it would no impact them in the least.

Christians live in the real world too. AIDS for example, from the gay community to those that never heard of it, suffered because of other peoples choice behaviors. This was dealt with by the medical professional field. Even today, AIDS is spread by others forcing their sexual desires on the innocent.

Please, explain to me how you differ from each other here?

If your father used expereince and knowledge of those experiences to "judge" right from wrong, then he lived his life with an open mind.

Not a bad place to live. Otherwise, you can believe in lies, and that, has gotten many people killed and involved in things they really didn't choose for themsleves.

Be concerned about the word "orientation."
 
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OllieFranz

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Let me ask a related question. It is not the same question, but if you can answer mine, then you will be giving the sort of answer that Caylin is looking for in her question.

During the debate over slavery, during Reconstruction, in the Jim Crow era and during the their struggle for civil rights in the sixties there were Christians that honestly believed that Blacks were not equal to whites and did not deserve the societal benefits of being recognized as equal. These Christians came to this conclusion based on their understanding of certain passages from the Bible.

Today there are Christians that honestly believe that homosexuals are unrepentant sinners and criminals (or were criminals before Lawrence v Texas), and do not deserve the societal benefits of being recognized as equal. These Christians came to this conclusion based on their understanding of certain passages from the Bible.

When asked about the similarities between the historic anti-Black Christians and the current anti-Gay Christians, most tell us that the historic Christians in question twisted the Scripture to agree with their prejudices, but the modern Christians have true and unambiguous Bible passages supporting them. But they do not tell us how we can tell when the Scriptures are being twisted.

My question is how can an outsider (like Caylin* or me**) tell the difference? How do we know, for example that the curse of Ham and the rules about slaves were misunderstood while the ban on "man-lying" was not?

*who is not a Christian
** who is a fairly conservative Christian, but one with certain issues with the deeply conservative brand of Christianty's social ethos
 
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Polycarp_fan

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Let me ask a related question. It is not the same question, but if you can answer mine, then you will be giving the sort of answer that Caylin is looking for in her question.

During the debate over slavery, during Reconstruction, in the Jim Crow era and during the their struggle for civil rights in the sixties there were Christians that honestly believed that Blacks were not equal to whites and did not deserve the societal benefits of being recognized as equal. These Christians came to this conclusion based on their understanding of certain passages from the Bible.

And "other" Christians showed them from the Bible how wrong they were. Skin color or race is something the Apostles taught about. Sex acts are sex acts. Back in the first century Church, Roman citizens were just Roman citizens. Even those that engaged in homosexuality. Gay sex is a sex act. It wasn't until the rise of this Gay Agenda thing, did we see this ploy for a sex act to become a minority qualifier. The insanity of that does not escape the debate. People desire sex with animals from how they think about sex as well.

Today there are Christians that honestly believe that homosexuals are unrepentant sinners and criminals (or were criminals before Lawrence v Texas), and do not deserve the societal benefits of being recognized as equal.

Anti-sodomy "laws" have existed in secular societies. In fact, many "regular people" find gay sex utterly repulsive and have even commtted acts of violence on people that engage in gay sex. "Christians" have debated gay sex within the Church since the Cathars and "Bogimil." Where the term buggery came from.

We see homosexuals rising to power in Churches once again. They will be driven "out" sooner or later for the same reasons as they always are. Some heresies are just plain evil. In nfact where heretics have been very vocal homosexuality is there. Study Gnostics and homosexuality. The Elites always think they are above the law. There is not one Apostolic voice to support gay sex for Christians. Not one. But, on the issue of "slave or free" or "Greek or Jew," things are well worked out. Western slavery was a great sin and stain on then Church. It, as was homosexuality, was worked out of the Church.

These Christians came to this conclusion based on their understanding of certain passages from the Bible.

And non biblical life as well. No parent wants their child around a "buggerer." There is much history to this gay thing. It is not just a debate for 2008.

When asked about the similarities between the historic anti-Black Christians and the current anti-Gay Christians, most tell us that the historic Christians in question twisted the Scripture to agree with their prejudices, but the modern Christians have true and unambiguous Bible passages supporting them. But they do not tell us how we can tell when the Scriptures are being twisted.

That's not true at all. "Slavery" was completely Ok with and to the Christians. Buttttttttttttttt, if you are a slave owner, you are to treat your slaves as you would a felloe Christian. And slaves were to be honest and decent to their owners (if not in Rome, that could and did get you killed). It came to be, that "loving" each other, was not compatible with "owning" them. Read Philemon for a glimpse of Christian moral reality. Gay sex is a sexual choice. As is owning a person. Christians chose to give up slavery as a Christian should. In England, the abolitionists PUSHED their religion on to the government. In America, the government pushed political power over rebellious Southerners. And they got what was coming to them. READ LINCOLN'S SECOND INAUGURAL SPEECH. God dealt with the southerners.

My question is how can an outsider (like Caylin* or me**) tell the difference? How do we know, for example that the curse of Ham and the rules about slaves were misunderstood while the ban on "man-lying" was not?

The Apostles wrote on food prohibition and days of worship. BIG things to Orthodox Jews. They reinforced the idea that gay sex was inappropriate for believers. A ham sandwhich OK. Guy on guy, girl on girl sex not OK.

*who is not a Christian

Read Jude. John and Peter too. Jesus didn't skirt the issue either. And "Paul?" Wellllllllll. Gays are more than familiar with his prohibitions "for Christians."

** who is a fairly conservative Christian, but one with certain issues with the deeply conservative brand of Christianty's social ethos

We either follow the teachings of the Apostles or we don't. "Conservative" and "liberal" are neologisms for an age where liars don't like being called a liar.

Again, read Jude on that.

The Apostles saw all of this coming. Literally.

Christians are not the bad guys on this gay sex thing. And choosing life out of the gay community and not engaging in homosexuality is not a hateful thing either. That would be a lie from liberals. Damning forever anyone that engages in gay sex is a lie from conservatives. This issue is nothing new for the Church.
 
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OllieFranz

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Polycarp_fan --

You have a somewhat different "take on the issue from most of the "conservative" posters here. And while I appreciate your views, my question is geared rather at those who have answered previous questions the way I have indicated.

And "other" Christians showed them from the Bible how wrong they were.

Exactly!

Likewise " 'other' Christians have shown from the Bible" that those who similarly condemn gays are wrong, according to their understanding of the Bible. That is to say, there are those who sincerely call themselves Christians on both sides of the issue, and both sets believe that they are following scripture on the issue. How can we determine which side is right?

I would also like to point out that Polycarp_fan is not the only poster here who still accept that the Bible permits slavery, provided you follow the Biblical rules, and so the "wrong" side in that debate has not entirely been suppressed
 
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Homosexuality is a sex act,
No.
It is not a sex act. It is not an act at all.
Homosexuality is an orientation. Just like heterosexuality is an orientation.

I lurk w/o the time to post much, and see this type of comment sliding by too often. Please, guys 'n' gals, call folks on this when you see it, otherwise they will define the terms.
 
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Polycarp_fan

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Polycarp_fan --

You have a somewhat different "take on the issue from most of the "conservative" posters here.

I don't buy into neologism and and pop culture. The Gay fad is nothing new to Christians. It's just clothed in cunning deception these days.

And while I appreciate your views, my question is geared rather at those who have answered previous questions the way I have indicated.

I hope my take on things is at least interesting to read.


I like, Bingo! I prefer being exact. It takes away the labels and labeling so common of the gay adversaries plaguing the Church.

Likewise " 'other' Christians have shown from the Bible" that those who similarly condemn gays are wrong, according to their understanding of the Bible.

According to the words written in the Bible, there is not one place that promotes and supports gay sex. Not one. None, zero, zip. Nada.

That is to say, there are those who sincerely call themselves Christians on both sides of the issue, and both sets believe that they are following scripture on the issue. How can we determine which side is right?

I'm all for allowing those that do not desire to follow the writings of the Apostles to both call themselves Christians and do whatever they want to with gay sex and those that engage in it. In fact, Jesus was quoted as saying that for the pagan, or anti-Christian, that they should be left alone and that He (Jesus) would have them dealt with. The New Testament is not a hard read, no matter the accusation that is hard to understand. This debate proves that it is quite easily understood.

I am a Christian, the words of Jesus are important to me. He was quoted saying, that we are to allow the weeds to grow. Looking at Jude for an example of how a Christian handles this teaching, he is very direct about these kinds of people "within" the Church and to expose them and just notice them. he never says become like them or support them though.

I would also like to point out that Polycarp_fan is not the only poster here who still accept that the Bible permits slavery, provided you follow the Biblical rules, and so the "wrong" side in that debate has not entirely been suppressed

It is wrong to say that "Christians" did not write about slavery and that they said that slaves and their owners were to be good Christians, and treat each other well. It appears from history, that these (or those) Christians thought that owning a human being was antithetical to loving them. So . . . we have slaves being "freed."

But, anyone comparing the slavery of the American Colonies to that of Roman slavery is misguided about as badly as it gets.

Notice, that the Apostles wrote about slavery, foods, and days of worship, but not once altered the view on gay sex.

Again, I follow the teachings of the Apostles, who were taught everything they know from Christ Jesus, or "The Helper" that Jesus gave them. It is also wrong to say that Christians can support and promote gay sex using the same honesty of what is written in the New Testament. The Apostles were clear on the inappropriateness of gay sex "for Christians."

If you know of any scriptures that promote gay sex for Christians, please enter them into this debate. Otherwise, please allow me to object and reject the accusations that my positions are mean and hateful. I am just a Christian doing what the Apostles taught that I should do.
 
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Polycarp_fan

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No.
It is not a sex act. It is not an act at all.
Homosexuality is an orientation. Just like heterosexuality is an orientation.

I'm holding firmly to the truth that homosexuality is a sex act. Otherwise, you just have thoughts that no one except the thinker can hear. And that, is of no concern to the Church. It is when "thoughts" are acted upon, that things change. You cannot alter reality because neologism and current politics say otherwise.

I lurk w/o the time to post much, and see this type of comment sliding by too often. Please, guys 'n' gals, call folks on this when you see it, otherwise they will define the terms.

Homosexuality is a sex act.

That is just a fact.

It is also, just a choice.

The APA does not lead a Christian anywhere, or on anything. You can follow it (them actually) if that is what you choose, but, for Christians and their house (The Church) they (we) will follow the Lord. You can create gay supporting laws that Christians will eventually be forced by political thuggery to follow, but there will never come a day when gay sex (homosexuality) is promoted in the Church. Christians survived Roman morality, we can certainly survive whatever Secular Humanists (Liberals and Progressives) throw at us.

Get angry all you want to. Christians have seen this before.

We stay, we pray, we're not going away.

There is a good reason why I am a fan of Polycarp.
 
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