Physics and our place in the Universe

[TLK Valentine]

False. There was a clear association with spirits! Looking at an ancient Zodiac, we do not see just farm equipment that they saw in the stars, but spirit persons and spirit related creatures etc.

When you look at a cloud and see a bunny, is that the work of spirits as well?

 

[lesliedellow]

In the thread here, the limits of what we know relate to spacetime and laws of earth and the solar system. If time were star dependent then obviously spacetime in the bubble here would be affected by time!

If....... scientists quite like evidence before they start dreaming up foundationless fantasies.

 

[lesliedellow]

Tell God that! 'God, you mentioned the wrong star groups, not so clever then, are you'? Ha.

I see nothing inferior about the constellations mentioned in Scripture, and it is clear that God Personally mentions that influence is involved!

You don't understand science, and the same seems to be true of the Bible. God was very clearly giving Job a dressing down in the verse you alluded to, and not delivering a lecture on astronomy - still less sanctioning astrology.

 

[dad]

When you look at a cloud and see a bunny, is that the work of spirits as well?

God did not talk of a bunny in the influential constellations He cited. What sort of influence could be greater than to affect the time on earth, therefore the laws and spacetime!?

 

[dad]

If....... scientists quite like evidence before they start dreaming up foundationless fantasies.

I disagree. They have dreamed up quite a few insane whoppers.

 

[dad]

You don't understand science, and the same seems to be true of the Bible.

Yes I do. So there.

God was very clearly giving Job a dressing down in the verse you alluded to, and not delivering a lecture on astronomy - still less sanctioning astrology.

Rubbish! God speaks truth, even if it was also a part of some so called 'dressing down'.

He goes on to list more!

Job 38:32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth [SIZE=-1][/SIZE] in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? 33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?

Now that fits! If the stars set the laws, (ordinances) of earth! Right from the mouth of GOD!

 

[lesliedellow]

Yes I do. So there.




Rubbish! God speaks truth, even if it was also a part of some so called 'dressing down'.

He goes on to list more!

Job 38:32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? 33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?

Now that fits! If the stars set the laws, (ordinances) of earth! Right from the mouth of GOD!

Flaming heck. The stars don't set laws - God does, and God alone.

 

[TLK Valentine]

God did not talk of a bunny in the influential constellations He cited. What sort of influence could be greater than to affect the time on earth, therefore the laws and spacetime!?

And which influential constellations did He cite?

 

[dad]

Flaming heck. The stars don't set laws - God does, and God alone.

Obviously, God sets the ordinances or laws, both in heaven and here. Can you reset the laws of heaven to be the same as on earth or the other way round? The issue is how the laws on earth might be set, not who set them! If God arranged for time to be determined for earth from the stars, fine. If they have influence on earth, fine.

Since spirits are clearly also associated with the stars and always have been, this seems to indicate that this influence is connected to the spiritual

 

[lesliedellow]

Obviously, God sets the ordinances or laws, both in heaven and here. Can you reset the laws of heaven to be the same as on earth or the other way round?

Would you care to explain how the Apollo astronauts managed to get off the moon, if Newtonian Mechanics didn't apply there, just as much as here?

 

[dad]

And which influential constellations did He cite?

Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

...

. 31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? 32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? 33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?

Now the definition of Mazzaroth is this ..

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]"Mazzaroth

1. the 12 signs of the Zodiac and their 36 associated constellations"

Mazzarah - Hebrew Lexicon

Not only do constellations have influence then, but a tie apparently exists with the stars (bands which is defined as cords!) Clearly, the stars here are also associated with spirits.

Whoever said the bible is not a science book!!!? Astounding.
[/FONT]

 

[Heissonear]

Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

...

. 31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? 32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? 33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?

Now the definition of Mazzaroth is this ..

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]"Mazzaroth

1. the 12 signs of the Zodiac and their 36 associated constellations"

Mazzarah - Hebrew Lexicon

Not only do constellations have influence then, but a tie apparently exists with the stars (bands which is defined as cords!) Clearly, the stars here are also associated with spirits.

Whoever said the bible is not a science book!!!? Astounding.
[/FONT]

Good reply, Pop's!

.

 

[dad]

Good reply, Pop's!

.

Thanks.

Rambling on for lurkers, then, our world and sun are in what Nasa calls a bubble in space. Here, we have spacetime.

"In physics, spacetime (also space–time, space time or space–time continuum) is any mathematical model that combines space and time into a single interwoven continuum.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime

Light speed involves time. Atoms spinning or decaying involves time. The forces and laws involve time. Therefore if time was determined from the stars for us, that would mean laws too.

The great influence of the stars that the ancients, and God (as in last post) spoke about could be time, which also controls laws here.

A change in our bubble position in relation to the stars could have resulted therefore in different laws or state!

I long suspected the change, but never had a mechanism. Real science is fun.

 

[DogmaHunter]

False. There was a clear association with spirits! Looking at an ancient Zodiac, we do not see just farm equipment that they saw in the stars, but spirit persons and spirit related creatures etc.

Well... yeah. It's called superstition. Almost every natural phenomena throughout history has been associated with gods and other supernatural shennanigans. From the sun to the tides, the weather etc.

This doesn't change my point.

Right, but exactly how different depends on what changed our position in the middle of the stars!

The solar system orbits the galaxy.
When we look up today, we're seeing the same stars in a different position as we would have seen 5000 years ago.

Did it tilt a little this way or the other? That is not known, is it?

It is known. It's actually relatively easy to calculate.

As you know, if we changed a satellite distance from earth, that should affect the way atoms work relative to atoms on earth etc etc (clocks).

You fail at physics.

It seems reasonable to propose that if the stars affect the time, that our relative position (therefore time and laws here) is linked to the stars as an embryo is linked to a mother!

You fail really hard at physics.

 

[dad]

Well... yeah. It's called superstition. Almost every natural phenomena throughout history has been associated with gods and other supernatural shennanigans. From the sun to the tides, the weather etc.

Says you. Yet God and all the early civilizations knew better apparently. Go figure. You would need more than opinion.

The solar system orbits the galaxy.

Great, and a cog moves in a clock...so?

When we look up today, we're seeing the same stars in a different position as we would have seen 5000 years ago.

Well, if you knew real time and could talk about 5000 actual years rather than belief based years, we might look at that. Here is a summary of some scientific observations that show that the positions of bodies in the heavenlies was indeed different, but not for the reasons you probably think.

"
In the years he took to research the measurements of the obliquity of the eclipitic, or tilt of the earth's axis, going back in time as far as possible, he found undeniable evidence that something happened to the tilt of the earth's axis in 2345 B.C. The measurements actually taken differed from Newcomb's curve of the mathematically figured obliquity (based on current earth movement) to a greater and greater degree the further back he looked. Thinking this might be due to early astronomical error, he checked each of these measurements for necessary corrections regarding parallax the semi-diameter of the sun and then against one another. The latitude at which the observations were made is inherent in the data. The latitude can be checked. When this check is performed, it turns out the latitude of the observations was completely accurate. He was impressed with their accuracy. The differences from Newcomb's Curve were real.
He studied some of the ancient temple/observatories. Their orientation towards summer and winter solstices were also 'off' by the amount the ancient observations showed. His conclusion, and the conclusion we find we also must draw, is that there was a sudden change in the tilt of the axis of the earth in or about 2345 B.C.
Interestingly, this appears to correlate exactly with a number of disruptions of cultures in the world: it appears to have initiated the First Intermediate Period in Egypt, for instance. This is logical, since any impact event causing a change in the earth's axis tilt would necessarily trigger earthquakes of a very large magnitude as well as volcanic eruptions and other local catastrophes. These events have been researched and documented, .."

Dodwell Conclusion

It is known. It's actually relatively easy to calculate.

Apparently not actually.

You fail at physics.

Hey, you haven't even shown any physics! Would you claim that time does not affect our laws, and is not part of 'our' spacetime???


Me and evidence and science are best buds.

 

[PsychoSarah]

You can't find evidence to support your past state; you wouldn't even have came up with that idea without the bible seeming to clash with the observed world.

 

[dad]

You can't find evidence to support your past state; you wouldn't even have came up with that idea without the bible seeming to clash with the observed world.

This thread takes it a notch up from that. The evidences of Scripture and history agree that the stars have influence and a connection with the spiritual. The focus is not on merely the nature change they also seem to indicate, but how all the wisdom of man in the form of science agrees that our laws do involve time, and are affected by it.

Obviously all all all all all all all all all evidence agrees from history and the bible that the stars have influence and a connection with the spiritual. Science claims our system is like a bubble. No one has ever been outside of that bubble! The startling reality is that if time were determined from outside our bubble, it would affect all laws in it! Now that is influence!

 

[Michael]

Obviously all all all all all all all all all evidence agrees from history and the bible that the stars have influence and a connection with the spiritual.

If that is true, it's only true because the Bible can be subjectively interpreted an almost infinite number of ways, as evidenced by the fact that your age estimates of the Earth based upon that book aren't even a majority viewpoint *within* the Christian community.

 

[PsychoSarah]

This thread takes it a notch up from that. The evidences of Scripture and history agree that the stars have influence and a connection with the spiritual. The focus is not on merely the nature change they also seem to indicate, but how all the wisdom of man in the form of science agrees that our laws do involve time, and are affected by it.

Obviously all all all all all all all all all evidence agrees from history and the bible that the stars have influence and a connection with the spiritual. Science claims our system is like a bubble. No one has ever been outside of that bubble! The startling reality is that if time were determined from outside our bubble, it would affect all laws in it! Now that is influence!

Science claims when it comes to physics is more spread out than in matters of biology. More like a group of scientists claim that our universe is like a bubble; lots of different physics theories are as of yet roughly equal in support. You can't really say science as a whole claims much when it comes to physics, just certain groups.

It is like in biology, the debates are comparable to the two party political system of the United States. Other parties besides Democrat and Republican exist, but they are small and get relatively little political power and attention. In comparison, physics debates is comparable to that of middle eastern countries, which can have over a dozen political parties; in some cases so many that different parties have to make compromises with each other so that one of them has a chance of getting a member elected.

 

[lesliedellow]

Science claims when it comes to physics is more spread out than in matters of biology. More like a group of scientists claim that our universe is like a bubble; lots of different physics theories are as of yet roughly equal in support. You can't really say science as a whole claims much when it comes to physics, just certain groups.

I wouldn't take Dad as an authority on what any group of scientists say about anything, if I were you.