Perpetual Virginity

[Bastoune]

No. "THEOS" means GOD. Mary is the "THEOtokos" -- "God-bearer."

 

[Godzman]

Thank you, dear brother.



"she did not give him his divinity" Absolutely true. He was GOD from all eternity and became man. The Word became flesh. Jn 1.

That true, concieved is just bringing him into human forms, I need to think through these broad statements.

 

[Bastoune]

Of course, some Protestants on this board said that Mary didn't contribute any genetic material or anything to Jesus... that God just used her body to put a baby in her and give birth to. I kid you not... very Docetist... lots of heresies keep popping up on CF.

 

[Godzman]

Of course, some Protestants on this board said that Mary didn't contribute any genetic material or anything to Jesus... that God just used her body to put a baby in her and give birth to. I kid you not... very Docetist... lots of heresies keep popping up on CF.

There are heresies everywhere, I know but the church is not united like it once was it is divided, but the bible does say the church will become more apostate in the last days.

 

[KennySe]

9Sometimes I must shout to be heard.)

Godzman, I urge you to web search "Hypostatic Union" and "Nestorianism".
I want you to understand Nestorius' claim.

 

[Michelina]

I know but the church is not united like it once was. it is divided

It is not God's will that it be divided. Jn 17.

 

[Godzman]

9Sometimes I must shout to be heard.)

so he believed in two sons or two Christs, there was a lot to dig through, I do know what he fought against, Arianism, which is what the Jehovah Witness's teach today.

 

[ChoirDir]

Well as a protestant and one who has looked at the wording she is the mother of the kurios -Lord Jesus Christ. The son of God, the Mother of the Son of God.

Not the mother of Theos - which would mean God the father. That is why I can't call her the mother of God, she didn't bare the trinity but she bore the kurios.

Ah here we see a Protestant who believes in the heresy of Nestor. Theotokos vs Christotokos.

 

[Godzman]

Ah here we see a Protestant who believes in the heresy of Nestor. Theotokos vs Christotokos.

No, you misunderstand too, I don't beleive in two Christs, I beleive in God revealed in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.


Do you?

 

[ChoirDir]

Then there can be no doubt that she is the Theotokos. You were implying that she was Christotokos. Now let's put that in English. Is she God-bearer or Christ-bearer. This is the heart of Nestorianism. To say that Mary was the Christ-bearer, is to imply that Jesus was not true-man, true-God.

 

[Miss Shelby]

Yes she is the Mother of God, but she did not give him his divinity he had it from being conceived by the Holy Spirit.

We do not believe that Mary gave Christ His Divinity. His humanity was taken from her. She did not have to give Christ His Divinity, in order to be His Mother. Godzman, do you possess inherited traits that did not come from your mom? Is she any less your mother because of it?

Mary is the Mother of God, the Son just as she is the Mother of the Son of God.

Michelle

 

[Godzman]

Then there can be no doubt that she is the Theotokos. You were implying that she was Christotokos. Now let's put that in English. Is she God-bearer or Christ-bearer. This is the heart of Nestorianism. To say that Mary was the Christ-bearer, is to imply that Jesus was not true-man, true-God.

She is the Lord-bearer, the God-bearer.

She bore God, but she is not the Mother in the sense that she was prexistant before Christ. That is a problem I would imagine a lot of protestants would have.

 

[Godzman]

We do not believe that Mary gave Christ His Divinity. His humanity was taken from her. She did not have to give Christ His Divinity, in order to be His Mother. Godzman, do you possess inherited traits that did not come from your mom? Is she any less your mother because of it?

Mary is the Mother of God, the Son just as she is the Mother of the Son of God.

Michelle

I understand it, my fingers and toes I get from my mom, maybe Jesus had fingers and toes like mary

 

[Miss Shelby]

I understand it, my fingers and toes I get from my mom, maybe Jesus had fingers and toes like mary

When I hear people say that Mary cannot be the Mother of God the Son because His Divinity could not have come from her I do not understand why they think it would have to in order for her to be the mother.

Why couldn't it just come from the Father?

Michelle

 

[Godzman]

When I hear people say that Mary cannot be the Mother of God the Son because His Divinity could not have come from her I do not understand why they think it would have to in order for her to be the mother.

Why couldn't it just come from the Father?

Michelle

Your right on that aspect, although we are a little off topic now, I do not believe either way that Mary stayed a virgin or not, but there seems evidence that she may have had another child, James the leader of the church in jerusalem, and the author of James.

 

[ChoirDir]

Someone back me up here, I believe that James was either a cousin of Jesus or his half brother.

 

[nyj]

Someone back me up here, I believe that James was either a cousin of Jesus or his half brother.

Agreed. There are two theories.

1. The brothers of Jesus were the sons of Joseph from a prior marriage (Joseph was a widower). The Protoevangelium of James lends this hypothesis support.

2. The brothers of Jesus were kin, but did not share Jesus' father and mother. Jerome's defense of Mary's Virginity against Helvedius supports this hypothesis.

 

[Michelina]

there seems evidence that she may have had another child, James the leader of the church in jerusalem, and the author of James.

James was Our Lord's cousin or kinsman.
The word used is 'adelphos' which means 'close kinsman', e.g. Jacob was adelphos to his father-in-law, Laban.

In Mediterranean cultures, first cousins are often called 'brothers'. But this doesn't mean 'brother' in the sense of 'son of the same mother/father'.

 

[Oblio]

She gave birth to Jesus the kurios

This separation of the Divine from the human is a common heretical teaching that I hear more and more by 'Bible based preachers'. BTW - The word kurios was used because of the Jewish audience who would object to Christ being called God.

 

[Oblio]

I understand it, my fingers and toes I get from my mom, maybe Jesus had fingers and toes like mary

Maybe ? ... As Christ had no human Father, ALL His humanity He took from her.