Perfection

[toLiJC]

I remember a translation of 2 Corinthians 13:11-14 rendered by one translator, "aim for perfection." By another it was translated "become perfected." We need an example of what perfection is. In athletics, it may be the one(s) who wins the contest. In scientific scholarship, it may be the one whose publications are recognized as outstanding in a particular area of interest. If it is a cancer drug patent, it is the one producing the greatest amount of remission proven by clinical trials without overwhelming toxicity. Jesus taught about a pearl of great price. This was not your ordinary small warped pearl. This was a nearly perfect pearl of museum quality, the type a collector might want to purchase. Knowledge should perfect a person.

When we give we are not supposed to be boasting about it, but not let the right hand know what the left hand is doing. Feeding a village may not be as important as teaching a village to feed itself. Without family planning it is impossible.

let us also not forget that religious worshipers often went into unnecessary/excessive intricacies instead of perfecting themselves in faith, love, righteousness, etc. quite directly

Blessings

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

So how do we become perfect

As I keep saying. We are perfect in the eyes of the important Person who matters. God sees us in Christ. He does not see us with our faults and shortcomings. That is all covered by the glory of Christ in us. So, we are perfect already!

 

[Jenniferdiana]

As I keep saying. We are perfect in the eyes of the important Person who matters. God sees us in Christ. He does not see us with our faults and shortcomings. That is all covered by the glory of Christ in us. So, we are perfect already!

Ok.

 

[mukk_in]

Jesus said:

“You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” Matt 5:48 RSV

However, I’m always hearing people say that it is impossible to be perfect. Keeping in mind that the Lord helps us, is it that hard to repent of our sin?

Not at all. One just needs to follow through on the impulse to repent planted in us by the Holy Spirit.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I believe there are those who will reach perfection before they leave this world:

And he said to them, "Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power." Mark 9:1 RSV

That's the first verse in the story of the Transfiguration, where Peter, James and John witnessed Christ Transfigured in Glory. Christ told us it is possible to be perfect. I'm not sure any Saint would have ever claimed to be so. The stories of the Saints that I know, none would have ever claimed to be perfect in this life.

Forgive me...

 

[Vicomte13]

Coffee is ready!

Forgive me...

No one ever needs forgiveness for making coffee, not since Pope Clement VIII declared:
"“This devil’s drink is delicious. We should cheat the devil by baptizing it.”

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

No one ever needs forgiveness for making coffee, not since Pope Clement VIII declared:
"“This devil’s drink is delicious. We should cheat the devil by baptizing it.”

Ha!

Forgive me...

 

[dreadnought]

Probably a rhetorical question. My reasoning is the background sounds like the Jews and Gentiles were giving payback to people they dislike. Then Jesus comes out saying you should love your enemies and friends you are wrong. [NOTE] This is not fact but more of an assumption.

I don't think it's rhetorical. I believe repentance is necessary.

 

[RaymondG]

i agree even if you feel you haven't sinned last week or maybe you didn't for example or whatever should repent just incase you never know could have did something or at least if not a sin made a mistake somewhere.

Repent just in case? How does one repent of something he doesnt believe he is doing? Unless you are saying that to repent is to just utter the words " I Repent"

 

[RaymondG]

Not planning on dying?

Forgive me...

I dont plan to:

John 11:26
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

[psif]

God bless.

Jesus said:
“You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” Matt 5:48 RSV

However, I’m always hearing people say that it is impossible to be perfect. Keeping in mind that the Lord helps us, is it that hard to repent of our sin?

dreadnought, you forgot to add the remainder of the passage so as to hold context. It's no wonder you are confused about the passage if you take only the critical line of the passage. It's as though you ate the peanut butter without the toast and now your mouth is sticky and it's difficult to speak.

Even so, the passage can hold its own. This is about the Love for Enemies. Therefore, put yourself in context / situation (a memory of when) you "hated / disliked " a person and then read the passage again.

-----------
Matthew 5: 43-48 (NIV)
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
-----------

And so, the point emerges clearer. Perfection, everyone knows, is impossible. Christians and non-believers understand this (Born of sin through Adam and so on) and the fact that only God is (only He can be) perfect. First, you must understand that the Christ speaks from Heaven, not from Earth, through and with the Father. Therefore, the words of the Christ apply everywhere. In the hereafter, that is, in Heaven, we will be MADE perfect (that is, born again in mind and body, full of the Holy Spirit). "Recreated" in immortal bodies as it were. Even in Heaven, this passage you mentioned will apply (emphasis - "you must be" and not "you will be").

Don't make the mistake that God will do everything for you. "You must" is an act of present practice and discipline. In the context of earth, the passage applies in light of the context. Even though you may be frustrated and are in state of anger, to love your enemies, the Christ (Jesus) says, because God, while we were sinners and deserving of judgment, sent the Christ (Jesus) for salvation. This is an act that is perfect in itself since it demonstrates selfless sacrifice.

To love our enemies does not mean to love their deeds, it means to care for them in their state of anger toward us et cetera and to tolerate it (as best possible). To be "Perfect" in this context means to go against the grain of sin. To conquer hate with love, which is in itself a perfect act, because it defies all logic and sin (Genesis - the darkness did not understand the light). Remember to keep the context from which the passage is connected to.

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

Why, then, did Jesus tell us to repent (Matt 4:17)?

There was a deep slumber and eyesight change that occurred in the garden after breaking God's command, "Thou shalt not eat..." The Truth of that is being revealed through Christ (The Door) to restore/reconcile us (back) to the father. He came to take away our sin, make us blind that we might see the son revealed in us. The mystery hidden through the ages..." which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. It is about perceiving (where we are at) as in the question God asked Adam, "Where art thou?"

The Kingdom is within and cannot be found by observation outside (with the five senses) for the flesh profits nothing, it is the spirit that lives...

John 9:41

 

[All4Christ]

Just a quick unofficial reminder that the rules of a General Theology do not allow the promotion of sinless perfection. I'm not sure if he opinions here go to the point of sinless perfection, but I recommend keeping this rule in mind.

 

[RaymondG]

I believe that the command to be perfect must and can be followed. However, we must not be like the pharisee who washes the outside of the tomb leaving the inside full of rotten flesh. We must work on the inside.....and then the outside will be cleaned as well.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I dont plan to:

John 11:26
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Speaking of eternal death. We are still going to have to go through it all and be raised on the last day.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I believe that the command to be perfect must and can be followed. However, we must not be like the pharisee who washes the outside of the tomb leaving the inside full of rotten flesh. Me must work on the inside.....and then the outside will be cleaned as well.

Just don't despair when you fall down... get up and keep going.

We must finish the race set before us.

Forgive me...

 

[RaymondG]

Speaking of eternal death. We are still going to have to go through it all and be raised on the last day.

Forgive me...

We will all decide which verses are spiritual and which are natural.......Which are eternal and which are physical based on our own interpretation and beliefs......and we will all be right....

 

[RaymondG]

Just don't despair when you fall down... get up and keep going.

We must finish the race set before us.

Forgive me...

Alternatives, buts, just-in-cases, and backup plans are for those who dont believe. e.g. "If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it." You can either say: If you dont get it......, But you cant ask for....., only ask for so and so.... Or you can say: ok, I believe.

I dont need the backup plans.......But I agree they are necessary for some people.

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

Surely one could not come without the other.

We are to be raised perfected. We will not "be" perfect before then. You're goal certainly is on the correct path.

Forgive me...

We are spiritual beings (when we awaken to that Truth) and the flesh profits nothing, the spirit is life. Perceiving with the five senses and being single of eye are two sides of the same coin. Our body of flesh is a tent that houses the spirit of God in whose image we were made. That body physically dies...it is what is within that tent that must come to life/awaken from slumber to see/perceive...for the kingdom is within you, cannot be found by observation (using the five senses)...spiritually discerned.

Christ came to take way our sin...duality within/self-soul vs spirit and we cannot serve two masters speaks to the process taking place within to becoming ONE in Christ...the mystery hidden for the ages, now being revealed..."Christ IN you, the hope of glory."

He can only give us we hope for/perceive as possible. Eternal means without end or beginning...with man it is impossible...

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

I just got into an argument with someone about dying. There is death and then there is death. We die a death on earth but we go on living.

Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.