Paulianity & the Ravening Wolf

[OldWiseGuy]

Matthew 7:15 (NLT)
"Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves.

Paul still doesn't fit the narrative of Gen 49 which deals with the descendants of Jacob on a group level not an individual level. An individual is just not what one looks for to fulfill this prophecy. That said Paul is certainly one of the most important individuals in the bible. However there are no specific prophecies about him anywhere.

 

[Zeek]

Paul is one of my all time heroes, I doubt if the earth has seen another faithful man of his ilk and spiritual stature since the first century, I constantly thank G-d for the life of Paul and how his faithfulness has impacted , encouraged and given hope and understanding to so many Believers, especially myself.

To try and smear Paul; or the writings that have been attributed to Paul, as being false and deceptive is a glaring error of judgment and the height of foolishness and does not originate from the Spirit of Truth.

 

[sdowney717]

Jesus uses that same word scriptures also
w w w .blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1124&t=KJV


a picture of the text show that word used 50 some times to refer to scriptures.
Same word used by both Jesus and Peter and it does refer to the scriptures, scriptures meaning God's word.

 

[timewerx]

is your hate for Paul timewerx, in relation to how the modern church has twisted his words of grace into their corrupt gospel? by hating on Paul are you not throwing the baby out with the bathwater?

I don't hate Paul, but I certainly hate some (not all) of the writings that were credited to him.

Of course, I still could be mistaken that Paul is a false prophet. I don't trust the Bible Canon Process to be divinely inspired, given the circumstances surrounding it. Who knows, maybe they changed what Paul wrote to suit their agenda.

Anyway I really don't think the modern church agrees with Paul all throughout although they claim they do. Paul made quite a strong emphasis in contentment even in poverty and gave a strong warning against desiring financial gain in Godliness. Those are some of the teachings of Paul, many Christians I found to be offended by it, even though they highly esteem Paul.

I don't think the Anointing, or the Holy Ghost that Jesus promised is a book.... Must've been really painful if it fell on you from a great height!

 

[peterlindner]

Netzarim,
Excellent post. In Isaiah "it" happened suddenly. Paul preaches a transformation by the renewing of the mind (slow walk up the tower of babel).

I've already posted my thoughts on the "Benjamites". Benjamin had 4 extra coats. Jesus said to only carry one. Who are the other coats for? Ehud, Ester/Mordecai, Saul, and Paul. They all had a "false" gift.

We are living in very exciting times,
Peter

 

[timewerx]

Paul is one of my all time heroes, I doubt if the earth has seen another faithful man of his ilk and spiritual stature since the first century, I constantly thank G-d for the life of Paul and how his faithfulness has impacted , encouraged and given hope and understanding to so many Believers, especially myself.

What happened to Apostle Peter now? The Apostle to the gentiles?

The beholder of the Key to God's Kingdom?

Jesus did not intend Paul to be the superstar of the show, unless He changed His mind which is not the nature of God.

Paul said so many things "exciting" because it had loopholes. It allows Christianity to bend over to the ways of the world which most people think is fun but not how Jesus sees it. Jesus on several occasions told that world and its ways are evil.... So why bend over to evil ways?

 

[ananda]

But notice that the prophecy is more about the descendants of Judah than it is of Christ. In fact all the prophecies in Gen 49 are about the descendants of Jacob in general, not any one specifically.

I disagree. Gen 49 is speaking to all 12 tribes - the sons of Jacob/Israel - not only the tribe of Judah. Secondly, I would say most commentators associate Jacob's prophecy in this chapter regarding Judah (Gen 49:8-12) as specifically applicable to one Person - Messiah. Is it unreasonable to also see Jacob's prophecy regarding Benjamin as applicable also to one person, perhaps Paul?

 

[ananda]

Paul was a key person in establishing the Church at Ephesus, although I think this wont help you see as you will read it another way.

Ephesus was the capital of the Roman province of Asia, and we read from Pharisee Paul's own hand in 2Tim 1:15 how ALL those in Asia turned away from Pharisee Paul. Messiah even commends the Ephesians for rejecting false apostles (Rev 2:1-2)!

And if you believe this to be a warning from Peter, WHICH writings of Paul PETER ADMITS to some being hard to understand, but not admitting to being FALSE, then you have yourself twisted the intent in Peter's letter to falsehood from Truth and God will someday show you this folly ... Peter goes into great depth on false teachers in his letters, so Peter would have certainly named Paul as one if Paul was one as Paul was very well known in the church.

I believe that Peter did not single out Pharisee Paul by name because Peter was obedient to Messiah's commandment to not separate the wheat from the chaff.

Peter did, however, use the opportunity and 2Pet letter to attack Paul's doctrines and credentials (if not Paul himself):

1. Throughout this epistle, Peter writes about the necessity to follow Messiah and Torah in obedience and repentance, not turning back to sin (rejecting the Law, e.g. Paul's anti-Law doctrines) after coming to Him in trust.
2. He cites his own credentials as an apostle, being a direct first-hand eyewitness to Messiah's life, words, and works (e.g. 2Pet 1:16-18), as opposed to those who were not first-hand witnesses, alluding to those who cunningly devise false fables & dreams about Messiah (e.g. Paul's visions);
3. He warns against false prophets among the believers (ch 2) who preach like Balaam (2:15, cf Rev 2:14, Jude 11) - a false prophet who taught truth mixed with falsehood, and promised "liberty" (2:19) from the commandments (2:21).
4. He exhorts his readers to stand true to YHWH's Word given through the prophets (3:2), and as Messiah Himself taught (that is, reject doctrines which state that Messiah's words & the words of the other prophets were for a "previous dispensation").
5. Finally, he warns us that Paul is only to be considered a "brother" - not "apostle" (3:15), that Paul according to his wisdom (not inspiration) given to him (from who? & was it a false wisdom? cf James 3:15 & Jer 4:22), he wrote to the believers.

Perhaps those who embrace Paul because they twist Peter's intent in 2Pet to truth from falsehood will one day be shown this folly.

 

[ananda]

If that was only the problem, I would have gone with Paul's teachings, but wait, there are problems with his teachings too!

Matthew 7:15 (NLT)
"Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves.

Amein!

 

[ananda]

People who reject Paul also reject Acts and much of the word as false. Why would God call Paul to the work of God if Paul was a false teacher, Why would God even have anything positive to say . You may as well just create your own bible.

Acts was mostly a second-hand compilation of information by Luke from other sources - he was not a first-hand witness.

If I wrote a book saying "Peter, John, and James descended from heaven, laid hands on me and pronounced me an 'apostle'" does that make it automatically true?

If the entire bible is inspired, then when you reject it you fall under God's warning curse in Rev, which book you also likely reject as having any spiritual value. God put this word in place at the very end of His books, which you must also reject that God had anything to do with in placing the books having God's own approval.

Which "Bible" is entirely inspired? You do know that there has been many different canons down through history? Some groups reject Paul, some reject James and Revelation, others reject or accept other books. What makes your canon the inspired one?

 

[ananda]

Paul is one of my all time heroes, I doubt if the earth has seen another faithful man of his ilk and spiritual stature since the first century, I constantly thank G-d for the life of Paul and how his faithfulness has impacted , encouraged and given hope and understanding to so many Believers, especially myself.

I used to think that way about Pharisee Paul.

To try and smear Paul; or the writings that have been attributed to Paul, as being false and deceptive is a glaring error of judgment and the height of foolishness and does not originate from the Spirit of Truth.

How do you deal with Messiah's commandment to not listen to the teachings of Pharisees?

 

[ananda]

What happened to Apostle Peter now? The Apostle to the gentiles?

Or, the other ten apostles ... also "apostles to the Gentiles"! Mt 28:19: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations ..."

Paul said so many things "exciting" because it had loopholes. It allows Christianity to bend over to the ways of the world which most people think is fun but not how Jesus sees it. Jesus on several occasions told that world and its ways are evil.... So why bend over to evil ways?

and, through Pharisee Paul's words, they have found ways around obedience to YHWH's commandments. Exactly what the Pharisees taught!

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I disagree. Gen 49 is speaking to all 12 tribes - the sons of Jacob/Israel - not only the tribe of Judah.

I said this.

 

[ananda]

I said this.

You're right, my apologies!

 

[JWO]

Paul arrived soon after Messiah's ascension and before the destruction of the Temple (Mt 24:1-3). Messiah warned us about him, that we should not be deceived by him (Mt 24:4), and indeed, he deceptively came in Messiah's Name, saying "I represent Messiah" (Mt 24:5).

(Sidenote: Paul caused the desolation of the Temple (Mt 24:15) after disobeying (Acts 21:15) the command of the Holy Spirit who said that he should not go to Jerusalem (Acts 21:4). Paul brought along his disciple, the uncircumcised Gentile Trophimus, with him to Jerusalem. They went into the Temple, and Trophimus, relying upon Paul's doctrines that "circumcision & uncircumcision is nothing", that the "Temple's middle wall was broken" and that "God does not live in temples built by human hands", entered into the Temple and abominated it (cf Eze 44:7). The Messianic Jews of Asia, who were previously taught by Paul (Acts 21:20,21,28), had rejected Paul's message (2Tim 1:15) and Paul's own claims to apostleship (Rev 2:2), and, after witnessing this act of desolation, and zealous for the Torah (Acts 21:20), fought against him (Acts 22:27+). Paul rejected the "old" and confirmed a "new" Covenant with his people (Dan 9:27), and abominated and desolated the Temple (Dan 9:27) in fulfillment of Daniel's & Messiah's Mt 24 prophecy.)
​

In fulfillment of the Gen 49 prophecy, Paul was from the tribe of Benjamin (Rom 11:1, Phl 3:5), and before his alleged "conversion", he persecuted the Messianic believers to the death (Acts 9:1) in his search. After his "conversion", he brought darkness in his attempt to divide the world, allegedly leaving the authentic apostles the circumcised and taking for himself the uncircumcised (Gal 2:8).

Paul gave unwitnessed (Jn 5:31, Mt 18:16) testimony that Messiah appeared to him in visions, allegedly commissioning him as an apostle. Paul advocated departure from YHWH's Covenant and Law, causing his followers to do just that. Paul cast down the importance of YHWH's Sabbath (Rom 14:6, Gal 4:10), and his followers profane it to this day. They mix the unclean with the clean, such as eating unclean pork (1Cor 8:8 cf Isa 66:17). Paul offered a wide and easy path to salvation ("faith & grace alone without obedience!" Gal 5:1-6, etc.), and caused countless millions to lose their eternal souls. All in fulfillment of the prophecies found in Mt 7 & Eze 22.

Let us heed these words recorded by the Apostle John: "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities." Rev 18:4,5

The Nicene council took place after a whole lot of persecuted people were already Smyrna's souls under the altar. Councils which have their beginning in the mass extermination of any possible protestors cannot be thought of as either godly or fair judges of what is doctrinal.

The letters of Saul of Tarsus used to be a separate scroll. And after that council, they were bound into the holy book.

And today, Jesus' Words people are called cultists, with Jesus as their cult leader, when cult is defined as outside of the accepted doctrine of the masses. But narrow is the road...

I thank you for your courage, ananda.

 

[JWO]

Again, Judges 2 also speaks of the singular "Angel of YHWH" - not "angels", plural.

Stephen does not speak in agreement with either the Law or the Prophets:

"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."- Isa 8:20

Paul, Stephen, and the author of Hebrews (likely Barnabas, Paul's disciple) speaks of the Law being given through angels as a way to denigrate and diminish YHWH's Law, in contrast to their new way of faith- & grace-only which they teach. This was the seed that caused the birth of Gnosticism.

The writer of Acts was also wrong about when and where and how the Holy Spirit came to man. Acts appears to be nothing more than Saul's biographer. Which begs the question, why does Acts fail to keep straight the conversion versions? Playing to an audience must be a very tricky business. And why was Saul always running away?

Jesus cast the moneychangers out of His Father's house... that means God does indeed dwell in a house made with human hands. But the writer of Acts was preparing the way for the human temple of Paulinism... as though humans who serve God with their minds, but their bodies are slaves to sin is a fitting residence for God in whom there is no darkness at all.

And Saul's saying the antichrist is only a son of perdition has the web buzzing with people saying Iscariot must be antichrist, since Jesus used the same phrase. But Jesus means the son of Apollyon, not Apollyon himself. I promise you, the head that was injured isn't the man who killed himself.

 

[JWO]

There is alot of talk that Paul and the other apostles clashed alot over what they saw in Paul's Christianity as not being what Jesus taught. There is even theories that Revelation is a commentary about Rome as well as Pauline Christians written by an angry Jewish Christian who has just seen the temple and Jerusalem destroyed as well as Paul's Christianity taking hold, which he disapproved of. Of course that's just a theory.

And that Ephesus found Saul to be a false apostle; and Jezebel tells you it's OK to eat in the temple of the demon, as long as someone who doesn't have these deep things sees you there... these are just theories, too.

 

[JWO]

Peter goes into great depth on false teachers in his letters, so Peter would have certainly named Paul as one if Paul was one as Paul was very well known in the church.

Peter would never have accepted Saul's dead-husband/dead-law theology. And it's impossible for me to believe that Peter was illiterate, and needed a follower of Saul's to write it for him.

Tertullian says that Barnabus wrote Hebrews, BTW.

 

[JWO]

People who reject Paul also reject Acts

You may as well just create your own bible.

If the entire bible is inspired, then when you reject it you fall under God's warning curse in Rev, which book you also likely reject as having any spiritual value.

Nonsense, Revelation is talking about the book of this prophecy... and unless you want to call all of the letters prophetic... which clearly they aren't, since some of them say that they caught you by trickery, or that they lied, and often that they think they have it right... Revelation means don't add to Revelation, period.

And not only do some of us reject Shaul of Tarsus, we reject everything that goes against the testimony of Jesus.

 

[JWO]

And what if Shaul is also Zachariah's worthless shepherd?
No, I'm not saying that the angel of light on the wilderness road to Damascus was Jesus... Shaul says Satan came disguised. But Shaul says he is absolutely forced to carry that gospel. And because of that, Shaul is handcuffed by his right hand to the left hand of a guard acting as the sword of the law... as Shaul tells you... and as many commentators specifically say, and Josephus says that's what Rome did. And Shaul further tells you that Satan inflicted his eyesight.

Luke says Satan wanted to sift Peter, and that Jesus wouldn't let him.