Paul vs Christ?

[Aaron112]

Properly, is the key word. We all think we know the truth and our truth is different than someone else’s truth and someone’s else etc. So someone in there is not judging themselves properly because there is only one Truth, not many.

Thus you do not know what is proper. So you are not able to know nor to judge.

 

[Aaron112]

I will let God determine that, but thanks anyway. Take care.

He already did, as written. Judge yourself now, today, as He Says in the Bible, before it is too late.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

He already did, as written. Judge yourself now, today, as He Says in the Bible, before it is too late.

And thats supposed to trump Christ Judgement? So reading it as that we can judge ourselves is all that matters, who is going to judge themselves sinners? The Pharisees certainly thought their judgement was sound, yet they crucified Jesus.

Scripture tells us we all have to stand before Jesus for His judgment meaning, we don’t judge ourselves and decide our own fates.

2 Cor 5:7 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.


We are to examine ourselves, God will condemn, not us and to think we know what a stranger on the internet is lost or saved really only proves my point. It’s best to let God be God as He is the only one all-knowing.

 

[Aaron112]

And thats supposed to trumps Christ Judgement?

You have mis-represented a lot of Scripture in your posts. May God have mercy. Stop sinning.

 

[Studyman]

Yes Different covenant, though

This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink, in memory of me †

Yes, the Lamb of God has come, and the prophesied New Priesthood is here. But there is nothing in Gods Promise of a New Priesthood Covenant that erases the prophesied Rest for the people of God. I understand that "many", who call Jesus Lord, Lord promote such a philosophy, but there is no such promise given anywhere in the Holy Scriptures.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You have mis-represented a lot of Scripture in your posts. May God have mercy. Stop sinning.

Matthew 7:3-5

 

[Aaron112]

Thankfully you are not my judge Matthew 7:3-5

Thankfully God's Word is Truth. The sins you commit, if any, are judged by Him now. (if you fail to correctly do so)

 

[Leaf473]

Yes, the Lamb of God has come, and the prophesied New Priesthood is here.

But there is nothing in Gods Promise of a New Priesthood Covenant that erases the prophesied Rest for the people of God.

I can agree with that

"This is the resting place. Give rest to the weary,” and “This is the refreshing;” yet they would not hear Isaiah 28:11

I understand that "many", who call Jesus Lord, Lord promote such a philosophy, but there is no such promise given anywhere in the Holy Scriptures.

 

[timothyu]

Scripture tells us we all have to stand before Jesus for His judgment meaning, we don’t judge ourselves and decide our own fates.

We analyse ourselves to see if we follow the self-serving will of man or the will of God. Hopefully we understand the difference and live a new life accordingly, thus having chosen between the two.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

We analyse ourselves to see if we follow the self-serving will of man or the will of God. Hopefully we understand the difference and live a new life accordingly, thus having chosen between the two.

Exactly.

2 Cor 13:5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.

The Greek word for examine in this verse

peirazó: To test, to tempt, to try, to examine
Original Word: πειράζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: peirazó
Pronunciation: pi-rad'-zo
Phonetic Spelling: (pi-rad'-zo)
Definition: To test, to tempt, to try, to examine
Meaning: I try, tempt, test.

 

[Aaron112]

2 Corinthians 13:5
GNT
Put yourselves to the test and judge yourselves, to find out whether you are living in faith. Surely you know that Christ Jesus is in you?—unless you have completely failed.

 

[Aaron112]

1 Corinthians 5:12
For what business is it of mine to >judge> outsiders?

Isn’t it those who are part of the community that you should be judging?

 

[guevaraj]

You're talking around the issue and not addressing it. I can see this is not something you're interested in engaging in critically.

Brother, the issue is your “desire” to do away with the weekly Sabbath "day", to “turn away from the truth to myths” such as that Jesus is the Sabbath in the New Covenant.

So I say, let the Holy Spirit guide your lives. Then you won’t be doing what your sinful nature craves. The sinful nature wants to do evil, which is just the opposite of what the Spirit wants. And the Spirit gives us desires that are the opposite of what the sinful nature desires. These two forces are constantly fighting each other, so you are not free to carry out your good intentions. (Galatians 5:16-17 NLT fixed)​

Then I addressed the issue, presenting it critically from the word of God.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

The human tradition of the Sabbath since Joshua of getting the days of the week wrong, because the Sabbath is half a day before the seventh day of the week in Jerusalem, is acknowledged in the following video, explaining how God in the above passage by "oath" prevented Joshua from entering the Sabbath by making him keep the true seventh day of the week for 40 years with manna, which is half a day too late to enter the Sabbath near Jerusalem as punishment for their disobedience.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[DamianWarS]

Brother, the issue is your “desire” to do away with the weekly Sabbath "day", to “turn away from the truth to myths” such as that Jesus is the Sabbath in the New Covenant.

I'm not addressing the sabbath, you've turned it into that, this is what I mean by talking around the subject without critically engaging it. You've turned it into me attacking sabbath-keeping practices but the text itself is absent of any sabbath reference and I haven't brought up the subject myself. The issue is how "spirit" is understood in the text which you are stating is a "model spirit of Christ" over a reference to the Holy Spirit. I am not challenging your sabbath-keeping practice, I'm challenging this "model spirit" interpretation. You're using it as a pretext into a sabbath context and I'm challenging your methodology to get there not your sabbath conclusions

 

[guevaraj]

I would expect every person in the form would say no less yet we can still come to different conclusions.

Brother, Paul only gives one use of the word Spirit in his message about the Ten Commandments, and that message is to model our obedience after that of Jesus as the Spirit and not after Judaism’s disobedience to what was written on stone. Any other interpretation of Paul’s use of the word “Spirit” comes from the translators’ distortion of adding the word holy before the word Spirit, contrary to the context in which Paul tells us what he means by his use of the word Spirit to refer to Jesus, because God is Spirit, that is, Jesus is Spirit, as a Spirit distinct from the Holy Spirit in Paul’s message about the Ten Commandments written on stone.

But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil (not knowing they were disobeying the Ten Commandments) is taken away. For the Lord is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" to follow who obeyed properly the Ten Commandments as our example and Paul is not referring to the Holy Spirit as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments), and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (from sin and not from God's Ten Commandments). So all of us who have had that veil (not knowing that Judaism is disobeying the Ten Commandments) removed can see and reflect the glory (character) of the Lord (in obeying the Ten Commandments correctly). And the Lord—who is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" Paul is telling us to do likewise and not the Holy Spirit, whose job is to tell us things through prophets and remind us of Jesus as the model "Spirit" to copy)—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image. (2 Corinthians 3:16-18 NLT overlaid with commentary)​

So who is guided by truth and who isn't?

Those willing to let the Bible teach them without twisting the words of Paul's original message about the Ten Commandments written on stone.

We are confident of all this because of our great trust in God through Christ (as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror). It is not that we think we are qualified to do anything on our own (like excusing our disobedience of the Ten Commandments as coming from the Holy Spirit). Our qualification comes from God (sending us Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror). He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror). This is a covenant not of the letter (Ten Commandments), but of the Spirit (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror and not the Holy Spirit used as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments when Jesus obeyed them). The letter ends in death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin); but the Spirit (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror) gives life (the removal of Judaism's disobedience to obey completely the Ten Commandments). The old way (God's "order" by the prophet Moses), with letters etched in stone (Ten Commandments), led to death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin), though it began with such glory (leading to righteousness) that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God (which is His righteousness expressed in the Ten Commandments), even though the brightness was already fading away (Judaism's disobedience to the Ten Commandments). Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under the new way (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror who obeyed completely the Ten Commandments for us to do likewise), now that the Holy (added by the translators) Spirit (not the Holy Spirit but Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror) gives life? If the old way (written letters etched in stone), which brings condemnation (Judaism disobeys the Ten Commandments by replacing them with human traditions), was glorious (leading to righteousness), how much more glorious (leading to righteousness) is the new way (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror), which makes us right with God (removes sin)! In fact, that first glory (which led to righteousness) was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory (leading to righteousness) of the new way (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror). So if the old way (written letters etched in stone), which has been replaced, was glorious (led to righteousness), how much more glorious (leading to righteousness) is the new (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror), which remains forever! Since this new way (of imaging as in a mirror the model "Spirit" of Jesus, rather than Judaism's disobedience) gives us such confidence, we can be very bold (learning to use God's name properly, which Judaism does not). We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory (of God's righteousness), even though it was destined to fade away (by Judaism's growing disobedience to the Ten Commandments). But the people’s minds were hardened (to disobey the Ten Commandments), and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth (of their disobedience by replacing God's Commandments with their own human traditions). And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ (as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror). Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand (they disobey the Ten Commandments by substituting them with human traditions). But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. For the Lord is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror who obeyed the Ten Commandments as our example and Paul is not referring to the Holy Spirit as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments), and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (from sin and not from God's Ten Commandments). So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord (in obeying completely the Ten Commandments by removing Judaism's disobedience). And the Lord—who is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" Paul is telling us to image as in a mirror and not the Holy Spirit, whose job is to tell us things through prophets and remind us of Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror)—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image. (2 Corinthians 3:4-18 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

Anytime there is a level of interpretation there can be a misinterpretation.

The only way to misinterpret is for translators to twist words so that the original passage says something different and thus "reject the truth and chase after myths."

I solemnly urge you in the presence of God and Christ Jesus, who will someday judge the living and the dead when he comes to set up his Kingdom: Preach the word of God. Be prepared, whether the time is favorable or not. Patiently correct, rebuke, and encourage your people with good teaching. For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear. They will reject the truth and chase after myths. But you should keep a clear mind in every situation. Don’t be afraid of suffering for the Lord. Work at telling others the Good News, and fully carry out the ministry God has given you. (2 Timothy 4:1-5 NLT)​

This doesn't mean the most popular answer is the right answer but we do need to be ready to critically defend our positions and if we can't be less dogmatic about them.

Paul has only revealed one use for the word Spirit in his message about the Ten Commandments written on stone and we are not free to choose a different interpretation that we prefer against the context of Paul telling us what he means, because to do so leads to death.

And remember, our Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him— speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction. You already know these things, dear friends. So be on guard; then you will not be carried away by the errors of these lawless (athesmos) people and lose your own secure footing. Rather, you must grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. All glory to him, both now and forever! Amen. (2 Peter 3:15-18 NLT fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Can we please get back to the topic or feel free to start a new thread.

 

[guevaraj]

The issue is how "spirit" is understood in the text which you are stating is a "model spirit of Christ" over a reference to the Holy Spirit.

Brother, what Paul says is superior to what is written in stone is Jesus as a role model of obedience to what is written in stone, because a role model puts what is written in stone in our hearts.

“But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel after those days,” says the LORD. “I will put my instructions deep within them, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their relatives, saying, ‘You should know the LORD.’ For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will know me already,” says the LORD. “And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins.” (Jeremiah 31:33-34 NLT)​

The following passage is an example of how Jesus puts what is written in stone in our hearts by circumcising disobedience in Judaism so that we fully obey, according to Jesus' role model, what is written in stone.

Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote, ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commandments from God.’ For you ignore God’s law(nomos)/commandment(entolé) and substitute your own tradition.” Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law(nomos)/commandment(entolé) in order to hold on to your own tradition. For instance, Moses gave you this law(nomos)/commandment(entolé) from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.” (Mark 7:6-13 NLT fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

Can we please get back to the topic or feel free to start a new thread.

Sister, I already have another thread titled “How did Jesus circumcise us?” that no one has participated in. The following passage is an example of how Jesus puts what is written in stone in our hearts by circumcising disobedience in Judaism so that we fully obey, according to Jesus' role model, what is written in stone.

Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote, ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commandments from God.’ For you ignore God’s law(nomos)/commandment(entolé) and substitute your own tradition.” Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law(nomos)/commandment(entolé) in order to hold on to your own tradition. For instance, Moses gave you this law(nomos)/commandment(entolé) from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.” (Mark 7:6-13 NLT fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Sister, I already have another thread titled “How did Jesus circumcise us?” that no one has participated in. The following passage is an example of how Jesus puts what is written in stone in our hearts by circumcising disobedience in Judaism so that we fully obey, according to Jesus' role model, what is written in stone.

Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote, ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commandments from God.’ For you ignore God’s law(nomos)/commandment(entolé) and substitute your own tradition.” Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law(nomos)/commandment(entolé) in order to hold on to your own tradition. For instance, Moses gave you this law(nomos)/commandment(entolé) from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.” (Mark 7:6-13 NLT fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Please keep it over there, just because no one is participating doesn't mean you don't have to follow the OP on this thread. Thanks

 

[guevaraj]

Please keep it over there, just because no one is participating doesn't mean you don't have to follow the OP on this thread. Thanks

Sister, the passage says that there will be a correction by Jesus to our misunderstanding of the Sabbaths in Judaism since Joshua.

So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality. (Colossians 2:16-17 NLT)​

Below is the reality from Jesus of a correction in the “day” of the shadow of the Sabbaths in Judaism since Joshua.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge