Paul vs Christ?

[Gary K]

I'm not avoiding, as I said regarding questions


Would you like to ask a follow-up question to #836? If not, please ask another question

A friend I have called Jesus, Whose love is strong and true,
And never fails howe’er ’tis tried, no matter what I do;
I sinned against this love of His, but when I knelt to pray,
Confessing all my guilt to Him, the sin-clouds rolled away - Edna Worrell

Riiiiiiight, Sorry, trust between you and I evaporated a long time ago.

 

[Leaf473]

Riiiiiiight, Sorry, trust between you and I evaporated a long time ago.

 

[Leaf473]

As far as Thus saith the Lord and Paul versus Christ, I think it's interesting to note that the phrase doesn't occur in the New Testament of the King James

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: Thus saith the Lord

www.biblegateway.com

And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it

(I like what Handel does with that in the Messiah )

 

[Gary K]

As far as Thus saith the Lord and Paul versus Christ, I think it's interesting to note that the phrase doesn't occur in the New Testament of the King James

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: Thus saith the Lord

www.biblegateway.com

And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it

(I like what Handel does with that in the Messiah )

The reason trust evaporated between us a long time ago is your dishonesty.

 

[Leaf473]

The reason trust evaporated between us a long time ago is your dishonesty.

I trust you, my man

A friend loves at all times; and a brother is born for adversity Proverbs 17:17

 

[Bob S]

The Sabbath started at Creation Exo 20:11 when there was just man and God. Man made in the image and likeness of God Gen 1:26

So we are to just ignore Heb 8:10 and Gal 3:26-29? God's covenant is still made with Israel and still has God's law.

Goes back to my OP and proves my point by relating the Sabbath to Col 2:14-17 is essentially saying God is working against man from Creation instead of making Creation perfect according to His plan. The Sabbath is meant to bless and sanctify man and resting with God, but if one wants to call that legalism....sounds like a teaching contrary to God's character.

I have been reading the posts in this thread and came upon this post of yours SB. Your being an SDA you should know what your prophet wrote about Sabbath obligation. Her teaching is diametrically opposed to what Paul taught; we are not saved by the works of the Law. Ellen White taught the following:

But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14}

All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light.{HS 234.3}

As persons become convinced from the Scriptures that the claims of the fourth commandment are still binding, the question is often raised, Is it necessary in order to secure salvation that we keep the Sabbath? This is a question of grave importance. If the light has shone from the word of God, if the message has been presented to men, as it was to Pharaoh, and they refuse to heed that message, if they reject the light, they refuse to obey God, and cannot be saved in their disobedience. {RH, January 5, 1886 par. 2}

Do you as an SDA believe in the inspiration of Ellen White?

All of those smacks of legalism. Salvation by works of the Law indeed. Gal3: You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I have been reading the posts in this thread and came upon this post of yours SB. Your being an SDA you should know what your prophet wrote about Sabbath obligation. Her teaching is diametrically opposed to what Paul taught; we are not saved by the works of the Law. Ellen White taught the following:

But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14}

All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light.{HS 234.3}

As persons become convinced from the Scriptures that the claims of the fourth commandment are still binding, the question is often raised, Is it necessary in order to secure salvation that we keep the Sabbath? This is a question of grave importance. If the light has shone from the word of God, if the message has been presented to men, as it was to Pharaoh, and they refuse to heed that message, if they reject the light, they refuse to obey God, and cannot be saved in their disobedience. {RH, January 5, 1886 par. 2}

Do you as an SDA believe in the inspiration of Ellen White?

You misunderstood.

We are not saved by keeping God’s law, we are saved by grace through faith Eph 2:8

Does someone with faith keep God’s commandments or disobey God? This is the whole controversy of the Scriptures, our sin, breaking God’s law 1 John 3:4 , seperated us from God Isa 59:2 so does following in that same path reconcile us, or allowing the Holy Spirit to guide us and help us keep His commandments through His power, not to be saved, but because one is saved. John 14:15-18 so its not our works, its God’s work Exo 32:16

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 22:14 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

The Sabbath was never isolated from God’s personal Testimony Exo 31:18 God spoke it God wrote and said right in the Ten if you love Me keep My commandments Exo 20:6 I love Him, so I will follow Him regardless what everyone else is doing

All of those smacks of legalism. Salvation by works of the Law indeed. Gal3: You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?

Since God personally wrote and God personally spoke the Ten Commandments, this is His personal Testimony Exo 31:18 and God said in His personal Testimony that the Sabbath started at Creation Exo 20:11 , that Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27. Basically what you are implying with this terrible interpretation is that God bewitched man from the first day they were created in His image and obeying God through faith and love is bewitching man. We have a much different view of our God.

Take care.

 

[Bob S]

You misunderstood.

We are not saved by keeping God’s law, we are saved by grace through faith Eph 2:8

So, I guess you are not a follower of Ellen White

Does someone with faith keep God’s commandments or disobey God? This is the whole controversy of the Scriptures, our sin, breaking God’s law 1 John 3:4

1Jn 3:4 does not explain what God's Law is, but if you would only read the entire chapter, you would find out we belong to the truth if we believe in Jesus as our Savior and keep His commands. love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

, seperated us from God Isa 59:2 so does following in that same path reconcile us, or allowing the Holy Spirit to guide us and help us keep His commandments through His power, not to be saved, but because one is saved. John 14:15-18 so its not our works, its God’s work Exo 32:16

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

You and the flock interpret commandments as being the 10 commandments, but in no way is that a fact. In Jn 15 Jesus said He kept God's commandments. We know He was born under the commands of the old covenant. In those verses He didn't ask us to keep the commands He kept, He asks us to keep His new command to love others as He loves us. Jn15:13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

Rev 22:14 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Again, your interpretation means the ten commandments, but it does not indicate such. God has given man so many commands and to limit all of them to ten is not a worthy Indeever.

The Sabbath was never isolated from God’s personal Testimony Exo 31:18 God spoke it God wrote and said right in the Ten if you love Me keep My commandments Exo 20:6 I love Him, so I will follow Him regardless what everyone else is doing.

To whom did God tell that to? It certainly was not to the Gentile nations. There is nothing in all of history indicating any other nation observed the Sabbath. There is no indication of the belief SDAs have that anyone before Israel's escape from exile kept Sabbath. You cannot prove otherwise so why do you imply that they did?

Since God personally wrote and God personally spoke the Ten Commandments, this is His personal Testimony Exo 31:18 and God said in His personal Testimony that the Sabbath started at Creation Exo 20:11 , that Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27. Basically what you are implying with this terrible interpretation is that God bewitched man from the first day they were created in His image. We have a much different view of our God.

It was a sign between God and Israel. God never gave it as a sign to any other nation. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’”

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So, I guess you are not a follower of Ellen White

1Jn 3:4 does not explain what God's Law is, but if you would only read the entire chapter, you would find out we belong to the truth if we believe in Jesus as our Savior and keep His commands. love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

You and the flock interpret commandments as being the 10 commandments, but in no way is that a fact. In Jn 15 Jesus said He kept God's commandments. We know He was born under the commands of the old covenant. In those verses He didn't ask us to keep the commands He kept, He asks us to keep His new command to love others as He loves us. Jn15:13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

Again, your interpretation means the ten commandments, but it does not indicate such. God has given man so many commands and to limit all of them to ten is not a worthy Indeever.

To whom did God tell that to? It certainly was not to the Gentile nations. There is nothing in all of history indicating any other nation observed the Sabbath. There is no indication of the belief SDAs have that anyone before Israel's escape from exile kept Sabbath. You cannot prove otherwise so why do you imply that they did?

It was a sign between God and Israel. God never gave it as a sign to any other nation. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’”

Israel is God's Church, and we are grafted in by faith. Gal 3:26-28 Heb 8:10

God wrote and God spoke His personal Testimony Exo 31:18 the whole bible is about the testimony of God. If we can't believe His own personal Testimony, nothing I can say will make a difference so I guess it will get sorted out soon enough.

 

[trophy33]

Israel is God's Church

Church is God's Israel, rather.

God wrote and God spoke His personal Testimony Exo 31:18 the whole bible is about the testimony of God. If we can't believe His own personal Testimony, nothing I can say will make a difference so I guess it will get sorted out soon enough.

If you do not care what in the Bible is written for which times and for what audience, you will only confuse yourself and others. [Staff Edit]

 

[Bob S]

Israel is God's Church, and we are grafted in by faith. Gal 3:26-28 Heb 8:10

Matthew 16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Why would anyone believe they are grafted into a defunct Israel? Jesus is the life giver, and I have accepted Him as my Savior. In order to have life we grafted into the Tree of Life, Jesus Christ. There is no other Tree that can give life SB.

God wrote and God spoke His personal Testimony Exo 31:18 the whole bible is about the testimony of God. If we can't believe His own personal Testimony, nothing I can say will make a difference so I guess it will get sorted out soon enough.

And it became a sign for the people of Israel. It didn't become a sign for any other nation. Why do you keep rejecting the real truth?

 

[sparow]

A Christian lives, moves and has their being in Christ by God. As Paul said, not I but Christ.
But in regard to what you purport. The word of God is not one verse. Jesus also said in John 8:13-14. The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
John 8:14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.

As was said you are misunderstanding Galatians because you are taking it out of the context of the chapter. One must understand what is being said in chapters 1-3 to understand the rest in it's proper perspective.

There is logic involved. A prophet may not testify of himself, could be compared with not being able to prove a negative hypothesis or not being able to use DNA to prove innocence.

Jesus has said, Jn 5:30-38, a prophet may not testify of himself, meaning that for what is said to be considered true, confirmation from another trustworthy source is required; the Pharisees could not perceive that the Father testifies of Christ; in a similar manner I am not able to perceive that either the Father or Christ testifies of Paul, Jesus does testify of the accused woman, Mary.

I do not consult Paul, in the same manner that I do not consult Creflo Dollar, if I did, I would test everything against the OT

 

[HIM]

A Christian lives, moves and has their being in Christ by God. As Paul said, not I but Christ.
But in regard to what you purport. The word of God is not one verse. Jesus also said in John 8:13-14. The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
John 8:14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.

As was said you are misunderstanding Galatians because you are taking it out of the context of the chapter. One must understand what is being said in chapters 1-3 to understand the rest in it's proper perspective.

There is logic involved. A prophet may not testify of himself, could be compared with not being able to prove a negative hypothesis or not being able to use DNA to prove innocence.

Jesus has said, Jn 5:30-38, a prophet may not testify of himself, meaning that for what is said to be considered true, confirmation from another trustworthy source is required; the Pharisees could not perceive that the Father testifies of Christ; in a similar manner I am not able to perceive that either the Father or Christ testifies of Paul, Jesus does testify of the accused woman, Mary.

You are misunderstanding a lot.

The book of the law did not admit a man's testimony in his own case, but required two witnesses, Deu 17:6. What Jesus said was true Joh 8:13,14 Joh 8:17, but he admitted it was not sufficient testimony alone to claim their belief.

With that understood we have Peter's Testimony of Paul here in Peter.
2Pet 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

And Luke throughout Acts.
Acts 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,

I do not consult Paul, in the same manner that I do not consult Creflo Dollar, if I did, I would test everything against the OT

As was said you are misunderstanding Galatians because you are taking it out of the context of the chapter. One must understand what is being said in chapters 1-3 to understand the rest in it's proper perspective.

 

[sparow]

You are misunderstanding a lot.

The book of the law did not admit a man's testimony in his own case, but required two witnesses, Deu 17:6. What Jesus said was true Joh 8:13,14 Joh 8:17, but he admitted it was not sufficient testimony alone to claim their belief.

With that understood we have Peter's Testimony of Paul here in Peter.
2Pet 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

And Luke throughout Acts.
Acts 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,

As was said you are misunderstanding Galatians because you are taking it out of the context of the chapter. One must understand what is being said in chapters 1-3 to understand the rest in it's proper perspective.

I would say my understanding is different to yours. I compare the Law of God with mathematics; usually when we read "scribe" in the OT, a more correct rendering for the Hebrew word is "mathematician". So, I see God and his Law as pure math, and I see Moses expression of God's Law as applied math; with applied math, the purity is determined by what the math is applied to, in this case, men.

The judgement of the Judges was absolute as though God judged, yet they required two witnesses to put a man to death, but this was not automatic, the witnesses had to convince the Judges.

When did Jesus testify of himself? The only time I recall is when Jesus said, before Abraham was, I AM; how did the Father testify to that? I expect it was the prophesy Jesus fulfilled that are his credentials.

When and how did Paul testify of himself? It was the encounter on the road to Damascus with the angel of light, neither Peter nor Luke witnessed that event which was not Prophesy fulfilled.

The verses you quote are subjective at best, and do not testify to Paul being anything Paul claimed.