Paul: "Christ is our Life" Colossians 3:4.

[BobRyan]

Sin is the transgression of the law. No one can keep God's law because everyone is born after Adam, Romans 5:12. The new birth does not make the Old Adamic nature go away.

But it does empower the saved person so that they now obey rather than choose to live in rebellion - according to the Romans 6 text already quoted

Rom 6:
1. What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 Far from it! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too may walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for the one who has died is freed from sin.

8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all time; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 So you too, consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12 Therefore sin is not to reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the parts of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those who are alive from the dead, and your body’s parts as instruments of righteousness for God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under the Law but under grace.

15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under the Law but under grace? Far from it! 16 Do you not know that the one to whom you present yourselves as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of that same one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

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Rom 2: 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the Law who will be justified.

Being Justified - is a strictly Gospel concept.

The gospel of "more slavery to sin" is not the gospel you find in the NT. So as 1 John 2:1 states the order from heaven is "sin not" - but if anyone sins we have an Advocate with the Father.

What we don't have is "sin is what you must do ... you are enslaved to it... carry on". Going down that road leads you to "sacred" vs "profane" sins where "it is bad when they do it" and it is "to be expected" when you do it.

1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you sin not. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

1 John 3:4 "sin IS transgression of the Law".

and the Romans 8 text that you are still not quoting.

As noted here -

Rom 8:3
He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are in accord with the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.

1 John 5:3-4 "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
Rom 3:31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law.
Rom 2: 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the Law who will be justified.

Justification is purely a "gospel" concept

James 2:22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “And Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was Rahab the prostitute not justified by works also when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

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[RobertPate]

But it does empower the saved person so that they now obey rather than choose to live in rebellion - according to the Romans 8 text that you are still not quoting.

All that come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved by him are given the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit makes them more aware of their sinful nature. As Paul said, "The flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that you cannot do the things that you would" Galatians 5:17.

 

[d taylor]

You clarified our difference is this post



lost sinners are saved by grace through faith - and at that point they no longer have the "need" to ignore scriptures that they don't like.

2 Cor 5 says that the born again person is a new creation and Jer 31:31-34 says the New Covenant writes the Law on the heart.

The New Covenant does not do that for the lost person who is rejecting the Gospel. It is only when the lost person accepts the Gospel, confesses and then chooses the option God gives to repent that they are born again. That whole system only works because of John 3:16 and also John 12:32 "I will draw ALL mankind unto Me" - which is the supernatural work of God - on all mankind.

My best assessment is that you and the theology you follow has confused you in how to rightly divide The Word of God.
I would suggest to learn about the analogy of faith, that may help you understand scripture better.

Condition and Consequence: A Key to Correct Interpretation – Grace Evangelical Society

Galatians 3:28 and the Analogy of Faith – Grace Evangelical Society

 

[d taylor]

You clarified our difference is this post



lost sinners are saved by grace through faith - and at that point they no longer have the "need" to ignore scriptures that they don't like.

2 Cor 5 says that the born again person is a new creation and Jer 31:31-34 says the New Covenant writes the Law on the heart.

The New Covenant does not do that for the lost person who is rejecting the Gospel. It is only when the lost person accepts the Gospel, confesses and then chooses the option God gives to repent that they are born again. That whole system only works because of John 3:16 and also John 12:32 "I will draw ALL mankind unto Me" - which is the supernatural work of God - on all mankind.

Here is a simple question for you.
A person approaches you and says/ask. I have seen you (Bob) before on several occasions going to church. I want to know how can i have eternal life and go to heaven when i die.

What do you tell this person.

 

[RobertPate]

My best assessment is that you and the theology you follow has confused you in how to rightly divide The Word of God.
I would suggest to learn about the analogy of faith, that may help you understand scripture better.

Condition and Consequence: A Key to Correct Interpretation – Grace Evangelical Society

Galatians 3:28 and the Analogy of Faith – Grace Evangelical Society

You will never learn the truth through religion or religious organizations.

I understand the scriptures completely. You are the one that is in error.

Paul struggled with sin, because he was a sinner, Romans 7:7-25.

Your problem is that you don't believe that God justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5.

 

[d taylor]

You will never learn the truth through religion or religious organizations.

I understand the scriptures completely. You are the one that is in error.

Paul struggled with sin, because he was a sinner, Romans 7:7-25.

Your problem is that you don't believe that God justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5.

Sir can you see well, i have never said anything that you are accusing me of. So not sure why you are confusing me with people who are relying on religion.

 

[RobertPate]

Sir can you see well, i have never said anything that you are accusing me of. So not sure why you are confusing me with people who are relying on religion.

Then who is Grace Evangelical Society that you referred me to? You seem to believe that they have the truth.

 

[RobertPate]

Here is a simple question for you.
A person approaches you and says/ask. I have seen you (Bob) before on several occasions going to church. I want to know how can i have eternal life and go to heaven when i die.

What do you tell this person.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[d taylor]

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Why are you replying to my post i made to the member BobRyan. Seems like you have a few post confused or mixed up.

 

[d taylor]

Then who is Grace Evangelical Society that you referred me to? You seem to believe that they have the truth.

That post was not to you but to the member BobRyan

 

[RobertPate]

That post was not to you but to the member BobRyan

Regardless, you still believe that Grace Evangelical Society has the answers. Do they have a pope?

 

[d taylor]

Regardless, you still believe that Grace Evangelical Society has the answers. Do they have a pope?

You are really confused, just go rest or something. As I will not reply to your post that comment on any of my post I make.

 

[RobertPate]

You are really confused, just go rest or something. As I will not reply to your post that comment on any of my post I make.

That's fine with me if that is what you want to do.

By the way, do you really believe the earth is flat?

 

[Aussie Pete]

Religion is man's attempt to re-habilitate his fallen Adamic nature by the deeds of the law.

Paul said, "Therefore, by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

Works, laws and religion are the deeds of the law. They count for nothing in God's court. If you go into the judgment and profess your works or your obedience as the grounds for your salvation, you will probably disappear in a puff of smoke. Matthew 7:21-23.

God and his Son Jesus Christ are not in the business of re-habilitating man's fallen nature by the works of the law. In the Gospel, Jesus comes into the world and embraces our fallen humanity and puts it to death, Romans 6:6. In the Gospel, God resurrects Jesus Christ and brings forth a new humanity, "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creation" 2 Corinthians 5:17.

When a person comes to Christ as a repentant sinner to be saved by him many spiritual things take place that he is not aware of. God spiritually places him in Christ. God only sees him in Christ. Because God sees him in Christ, he is sealed with the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13. Spiritually he has been crucified with Christ and risen with Christ, and is now a new creation in Jesus Christ.

His old Adamic life of sin and failure has been put to death in Jesus Christ. The law says, "The soul that sins must die". Jesus died for us; his death is our death because he is our representative. When Jesus died all of humanity died with him. Jesus has victoriously atoned for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2. Salvation has been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9.

Our real lives are hidden with Christ, Paul said, "For you are dead and your life is hidden with Christ in God" Colossians 3:3. This is our inheritance, incorruptible, and undefiled, that cannot fade away, reserved for us in heaven, 1 Peter 1:4. The message is, don't try to re-habilitate your old Adamic life that has ALREADY been crucified with Christ. It's like trying to feed a dead horse.

God ALREADY sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. Those that are "In Christ" have ceased from their own works (religion) and have entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10. We are basking in the righteousness of Christ and in his perfect atonement for our sins because "Christ is our life".

I'm delighted to find another believer who knows the truth. If Christians could grasp the implications, so many problems would evaporate. Thank you for your post.

 

[oikonomia]

Religion is man's attempt to re-habilitate his fallen Adamic nature by the deeds of the law.

Agreed.
We must learn of the availability of Christ who comes to live in us.
And we must learn to walk in the Spirit, abiding in Him. Self improvement of self effort can hinder our spiritual growth.

I have found it may seem easy to leave "relligion." But "religion" will not leave you so easily.

Paul said, "Therefore, by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

Yes. Not only for initial justification for eternal redemption. But ongoing growth not being bewitched to try to continue law keeping as the Galatians were led astray to do, is needed.

"Walk by the Spirit and you shall by no means fulfill the lust of the flesh" - a s (Gal. 5:16). Enjoy if you can this song I wrote to this key verse.

God and his Son Jesus Christ are not in the business of re-habilitating man's fallen nature by the works of the law. In the Gospel, Jesus comes into the world and embraces our fallen humanity and puts it to death, Romans 6:6. In the Gospel, God resurrects Jesus Christ and brings forth a new humanity, "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creation" 2 Corinthians 5:17.

Amen to our having been crucified and buried with Christ. That is to be raised to walk by the indwelling life giving Spirit - Christ lives in our spirit. For "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit." (1 Cor. 15:45)
And we have been made dead to the law through the body of Christ. Now having the old man crucified we can walk in the Spirit and in newness of life. Amen. And let us learn.

When a person comes to Christ as a repentant sinner to be saved by him many spiritual things take place that he is not aware of. God spiritually places him in Christ. God only sees him in Christ. Because God sees him in Christ, he is sealed with the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13. Spiritually he has been crucified with Christ and risen with Christ, and is now a new creation in Jesus Christ.

Amen.
How EACH day should be started with a firm standing on these thruths.

 

[oikonomia]

Here is a simple question for you.
A person approaches you and says/ask. I have seen you (Bob) before on several occasions going to church. I want to know how can i have eternal life and go to heaven when i die.

What do you tell this person.

And I have a simple question for you also.
Where does the Bible say that God's top priority is that I "go to heaven when I die" forever ?

I think the question "How can I have eternal life and go to heaven when die?" seems too much to imply that one has to go to the realm of death in order to meet God. This too much makes Him the God of death when He is the God of the living. "To know God well you have to die."

It would quite marvelous to lead someone to the Lord Jesus with a new emphasis on being in the sphere the living available Christ.
Of course assuring the person that He is a God of resurrection and is victorious even over death physical and spiritual.

D Taylor I ask because you spoke pointedly about rightly dividing the word.
You may call me Jack (aka oikonomia)

 

[oikonomia]

In Romans 10:16, it speaks against those who do not obey the Gospel, yet you are trying to treat believing the Gospel as being an alternative to obeying it.

I do not think this poster is doing that.

He is pointing towards learning to let Christ live though and in us rather than the ethical self-improvement of man.
The lesson is sorely needed.

You might recall that in Revelation 2:1-7 the church in Ephesus had many zealous and dedicated activity for the Lord. But the Lord said that they had left thier first love. They had become zealously religious. Christ had to call them back to loving Him as a living Lord.

I think the spirit of this thread is much like that.
The best way to obey the Gospel is to always speak to the Lord that you love Him first, best, and above everything.
He is real and available and you love Him with the best love, putting Him first in everything.

 

[d taylor]

And I have a simple question for you also.
Where does the Bible say that God's top priority is that I "go to heaven when I die" forever ?

I think the question "How can I have eternal life and go to heaven when die?" seems too much to imply that one has to go to the realm of death in order to meet God. This too much makes Him the God of death when He is the God of the living. "To know God well you have to die."

It would quite marvelous to lead someone to the Lord Jesus with a new emphasis on being in the sphere the living available Christ.
Of course assuring the person that He is a God of resurrection and is victorious even over death physical and spiritual.

D Taylor I ask because you spoke pointedly about rightly dividing the word.
You may call me Jack (aka oikonomia)

I was asking this question to another person, who i was making a point about how this person and i define faith differently.

So you are reading a lot into the question i was asking this person.
One in the question i asked i never stated that a believer goes to heaven forever, Because actually all believers will spend eternity on the new earth God creates.

Plus i believe when a person trust in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life they have Eternal Life the very moment they trust in The Messiah and they can never lose the Eternal Life they were given from God at the moment of their belief. They have crossed over from death to life never to cross back over to death.

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

 

[oikonomia]

I was asking this question to another person, who i was making a point about how this person and i define faith differently.

So you are reading a lot into the question i was asking this person.
One in the question i asked i never stated that a believer goes to heaven forever, Because actually all believers will spend eternity on the new earth God creates.

Plus i believe when a person trust in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life they have Eternal Life the very moment they trust in The Messiah and they can never lose the Eternal Life they were given from God at the moment of their belief. They have crossed over from death to life never to cross back over to death.

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Thankyou.

 

[Soyeong]

I do not think this poster is doing that.

He is pointing towards learning to let Christ live though and in us rather than the ethical self-improvement of man.
The lesson is sorely needed.

You might recall that in Revelation 2:1-7 the church in Ephesus had many zealous and dedicated activity for the Lord. But the Lord said that they had left thier first love. They had become zealously religious. Christ had to call them back to loving Him as a living Lord.

I think the spirit of this thread is much like that.
The best way to obey the Gospel is to always speak to the Lord that you love Him first, best, and above everything.
He is real and available and you love Him with the best love, putting Him first in everything.

Christ lived in obedience to God's law, so that is also what it looks like when he is living through us. God's law is His instructions for how to love Him and our neighbor, but he wants to love instead of obeying God's instructions for how to do that. In Matthew 4:17-23, Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and God's law is how his audience knew what sin is, yet that is the Gospel that he rejects.