Pathologizing Masculinity

[Paidiske]

What traditional masculinity once meant was taking responsibility onto oneself and stepping up to the plate and taking care of a wife and family. Masculine roles were based in the need society has for fathers being the core of the family unit, to take on roles that male physiology and testosterone make men particularly adept at.
The alternative to that role is not having those kind of expectations operates on the principle of vice versa. Like the magic principle is as above so below, vice versa is that once the ideal of my body, my choice is accepted, then vice versa. Not my choice, not my responsibility.
Without any incentives to take on responsibility, the victimhood model of David French and male rights activists miss the mark. Life for males without responsibilities being a prerequisite for being a man, modern life for the modern male is a lot of fun. Video games are funnier than diapers, pornography is available for any male not matter how socially desirable he may be, minimal work is required to have a lot of fun.
Opioids are not a cry for help. They are a great feeling, and too much fun is a moral principle, not a factor in the pursuit for the best high possible.

Fatherhood is not a male physiological response. It is a social construct. Males are comaparively slow to maturity and it takes great effort to socialize those with a physiology more geared to adventure than to nurturance. It is learned behaviour, and when it is no longer taught as the normal, expected path, the male of this species have no problem pleasuring themselves to death.
Boys have been taught for generations now that girls are doing it for themselves, and they are mainly just fine with that.
Men in the West are exactly as we have been socially engineered to be.
Do women have a problem with that?

I think - from what I can see and hear from other women, as well as my own experience - women have a problem with the status quo, but would articulate it in different terms.

You look to a past where the father was "the core" of the family unit; that past had significant problems for women as a whole, and we've sought to correct some of those. That was not, however, an invitation for men to absolve themselves of responsibility; it was an invitation to partnership. The dismay of contemporary women seems to me, to be that too many men, offered a choice between partnering equally with a spouse, or acting like an additional child in the family, will opt for the latter. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard wives and mothers complain that their husbands act as if everything is the mental and emotional responsibility of their wives.

It seems terribly petty. "Oh, you're going to take on an equal role with me in life? Fine then. If I can't be in charge, I'm not interested." And a retreat to the pleasure and irresponsibility you describe so eloquently.

And then these men wake up one day to find they've been divorced because their wives have discerned - quite accurately - that they are better off without someone who doesn't pull his weight, and think that this is somehow all the women's fault. But how do you make someone who doesn't want to, take on responsibility?

 

[Hazelelponi]

I can see why suicides are up for men. When my stepson began college the men got a lecture on their first day basically calling them all rapists and demonizing them.

On college campuses the young men have to go along to get along, and its bound to get into their heads.

A good case can be made that males are discriminated against on college campuses, and the discrimination has grown over time. Men are vastly outnumbered in America’s universities—in the fall of 2016, there were 2,667,000 more women studying than men. Not only are they significantly outnumbered, men are often disproportionately harshly treated in campus disciplinary actions, often being denied rights routinely and constitutionally provided all Americans off campus.

Are Males Being Discriminated Against On College Campuses?

The demonizing of all things male doesn't begin in college, it's often treated as a disease as early as Kindergarten, boys are often given ADHD drugs to keep them "calm" instead of treating boys like boys and allowing educational allowances for the differences in sex since boys are often more active and less attentive in classroom situations than girls, in large part.

Feminism has taken over our educational systems, and if we don't counter it our sons will grow up - are growing up - with serious mental health issues. You can only demonize someone so much before they begin to believe it.

We should be building men up, not tearing them down.

 

[section9+1]

I certainly agree with a lot of posts here. Manhood has been virtually destroyed. Men are killing themselves because they don't know who they are anymore or what they're supposed to do. The church has gone a long way to ruin men. It seems being a Christian comes easier for a woman since the church pushes woman characteristics. A man on the other hand gets confused and lost and cannot seem to compromise how he feels with how he's supposed to behave. The church tries to turn him into a woman--the entire society tries to turn him into a woman. Become a woman and emulate the greatest woman of all--Jesus Christ. This is twisted. I understand men have to become new creations and stop acting like a savage or a sex fiend, but a balance must be found someplace instead of going all the opposite way.

 

[Athanasius377]

et me be clear, the problem is not our society. The problem is not our culture. Heck, the problem is not the APA. It is today's Christian father's who failed to step up to the plate and become the powerful man of God he was called and created to be. The problem is the Christian men who sat on the sidelines and passively allowed this problem to happen. During my time in youth ministry, I cannot tell you how many times I had to help "pick up the pieces" of the heart of a broken child left over from a punk father who still acts like a child himself. I am tired of it. Christian men, stand up and be a man.

Good point. I would make a broader claim in that fathers are not in the picture to begin with. Period. Think about it. We as a culture have allowed various institutions and people to undermine the family unit and fathers specifically and then wonder why we have a generation of men behaving like neanderthals? Its because a mom cannot be dad no matter how hard she tries. In my previous parish I cannot begin to tell you of the struggles of young men we encountered not only with their single mothers but their mother's boyfriend who is often there in the home simply so he can have sex with the mom. That's as far as the connection goes so the interaction with the boyfriend if there is any often turns violent quickly.

Add to that your point about Christian fathers who should know the importance of the family unit and importance of the the role of father simply shirked their responsibilities and left their sons to fend for themselves. Whether by divorce or by ignoring their sons because as you put it the fathers still act like children themselves.

 

[section9+1]

Insurance companies believe that boys are more dangerous behind the wheel than girls and they pay the price of that. How come the insurance companies are not being sued for discrimination. There's no equality there. How come the feminists aren't screaming about not being charged an equal fee? Truth is, there's really no such thing as equality. In the church or anywhere else under the sun or even in heaven. It's all about dominance. Who gets to be on top of the pile. With the only exception being the sexes. If they are together and working together in their assigned roles, then that is about as close to equality as we can get. Apart from that, equality is a lie.

 

[Athanasius377]

The game here is painfully obvious. This isn’t science, it’s a worldview that sees masculinity as anyone would have defined it just a generation ago as a problem needing to be solved. But as David French writes at the National Review, the APA has it all backward. The real plight of boys and men today coincides with our culture’s rejection of traditional masculinity, not the embrace of it! To say that the answer is to further deconstruct what it means to be a man is ludicrous.

David French is one of my go to columnists so when he writes something like this I take notice. I am surprised though there wasn't a tie in to the phenomenon that is Jordan Peterson. Perhaps cut on the editor's desk?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I think - from what I can see and hear from other women, as well as my own experience - women have a problem with the status quo, but would articulate it in different terms.

You look to a past where the father was "the core" of the family unit; that past had significant problems for women as a whole, and we've sought to correct some of those. That was not, however, an invitation for men to absolve themselves of responsibility; it was an invitation to partnership. The dismay of contemporary women seems to me, to be that too many men, offered a choice between partnering equally with a spouse, or acting like an additional child in the family, will opt for the latter. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard wives and mothers complain that their husbands act as if everything is the mental and emotional responsibility of their wives.

It seems terribly petty. "Oh, you're going to take on an equal role with me in life? Fine then. If I can't be in charge, I'm not interested." And a retreat to the pleasure and irresponsibility you describe so eloquently.

And then these men wake up one day to find they've been divorced because their wives have discerned - quite accurately - that they are better off without someone who doesn't pull his weight, and think that this is somehow all the women's fault. But how do you make someone who doesn't want to, take on responsibility?

In my experience women, especially mothers, were the "core" (center) of family life. Men were the core providers, focusing more on work than on family. An important role of mothers was to point their sons to the (hopefully good) example of their fathers. Sadly this was in the past. Today there are no such roles for either men or women, thus the confusion and uncertainty that plagues our young people, both boys and girls.

 

[Zetetica]

What is the Christian right of passage for becoming a man?

What is a man's role after he has gone through this right of passage?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

What is the Christian right of passage for becoming a man?

What is a man's role after he has gone through this right of passage?

To love (agape) his fellow man as led by the Spirit.

 

[RDKirk]

A new report on boys and men from the American Psychological Association reminded me, again, why worldview is so important. The report is the first of its kind from the APA, which has previously issued guidelines for girls and women, as well as for so-called “sexual minorities.”

For years now, the APA has been at the forefront of legitimizing progressive gender and sexual ideologies, and this report is in that same vein. To put it mildly, their conclusions are less clinical recommendations than they are naked worldview assertions.

Of course, the report isn’t all false ideologies. It opens, in fact, by recognizing a true and painful reality: Men and boys in America are not doing well. They’re diagnosed with ADHD at twice the rate of girls, they perform worse on standardized tests, they’re suspended and expelled from school at a disproportionate rate. As they get older, men use drugs and alcohol more often. They don’t seek help for mental health issues like depression as frequently as women do. They commit 90 percent of homicides, and make up 77 percent of homicide victims. They account for 93 percent of federal prison inmates and are 3.5 times more likely than women to commit suicide. In fact, male suicides are up more than fifty percent in the U. S. since 1980. We’ve talked of these so-called “deaths by despair” a few times on BreakPoint.

Reminds me of those housecats whose owners have trained them to be vegetarian.

 

[RDKirk]

Let me begin a discussion asking this question:

Who here besides me has raised both a son and a daughter to adulthood?

I ask that because I have some observations based on close experience to share, and I'm interested in opinions of people who have had the same experience.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Let me begin a discussion asking this question:

Who here besides me has raised both a son and a daughter to adulthood?

I ask that because I have some observations based on close experience to share, and I'm interested in opinions of people who have had the same experience.

(Raises hand) I have.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I'm sorry, OWG, but I actually laughed at this. We have no way of knowing if it's the last days or not, but what I can look back on is 2,000-odd years of Christians, some of whom in every generation were convinced it was the last days. We might well have another 2,000 - or more - to get through yet. And if we aren't going to find it all ending tomorrow, I'd like to do the best I can for the time we have left, you know?

Technically (biblically) the 'last days' began with the advent. Of course the 'end time' is the period including the tribulation (Jacob's Trouble).

 

[Not David]

I would like to take care of the children when they grow up. I feel they don't interact with their fathers that much nowadays.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I would like to take care of the children when they grow up. I feel they don't interact with their fathers that much nowadays.

We only have about 10-12 years to interact closely with our kids. After that they want to be with their friends more than their family. A good plan is to make your home welcoming to their friends.

 

[FireDragon76]

Ironically it is Hollywood that often best portrays the ideal in masculinity.

The last few years I've seen some movies that defy that. Mel Gibson, who is infamous for his blood operas, did a film (Hacksaw Ridge) about a combat medic and conscientious objector who doesn't even carry a gun... and he ends up getting the girl.

 

[FireDragon76]

What traditional masculinity once meant was taking responsibility onto oneself and stepping up to the plate and taking care of a wife and family. Masculine roles were based in the need society has for fathers being the core of the family unit, to take on roles that male physiology and testosterone make men particularly adept at.

Times change, and our society changes. We no longer live in an industrial society, much less a patriarchal agrarian society of the Bible. I think we need men now with more nurturing qualities . More Mr. Rogers, less John Wayne.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I can see why suicides are up for men. When my stepson began college the men got a lecture on their first day basically calling them all rapists and demonizing them.

On college campuses the young men have to go along to get along, and its bound to get into their heads.



Are Males Being Discriminated Against On College Campuses?

The demonizing of all things male doesn't begin in college, it's often treated as a disease as early as Kindergarten, boys are often given ADHD drugs to keep them "calm" instead of treating boys like boys and allowing educational allowances for the differences in sex since boys are often more active and less attentive in classroom situations than girls, in large part.

Feminism has taken over our educational systems, and if we don't counter it our sons will grow up - are growing up - with serious mental health issues. You can only demonize someone so much before they begin to believe it.

We should be building men up, not tearing them down.

A woman who has authored a book on this subject revealed something that I can relate to. She said, "Many men are fed up with the way women treat them, and have picked up their marbles and left." That's what I did, and life has been great since.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The last few years I've seen some movies that defy that. Mel Gibson, who is infamous for his blood operas, did a film (Hacksaw Ridge) about a combat medic and conscientious objector who doesn't even carry a gun... and he ends up getting the girl.

But that's exactly what I meant.

 

[Darkhorse]

Reminds me of those housecats whose owners have trained them to be vegetarian.

And do you know what happens to these cats? They go blind.

Cat metabolism requires a high content of meat protein.