Pathologizing Masculinity

[redleghunter]

A new report on boys and men from the American Psychological Association reminded me, again, why worldview is so important. The report is the first of its kind from the APA, which has previously issued guidelines for girls and women, as well as for so-called “sexual minorities.”

For years now, the APA has been at the forefront of legitimizing progressive gender and sexual ideologies, and this report is in that same vein. To put it mildly, their conclusions are less clinical recommendations than they are naked worldview assertions.

Of course, the report isn’t all false ideologies. It opens, in fact, by recognizing a true and painful reality: Men and boys in America are not doing well. They’re diagnosed with ADHD at twice the rate of girls, they perform worse on standardized tests, they’re suspended and expelled from school at a disproportionate rate. As they get older, men use drugs and alcohol more often. They don’t seek help for mental health issues like depression as frequently as women do. They commit 90 percent of homicides, and make up 77 percent of homicide victims. They account for 93 percent of federal prison inmates and are 3.5 times more likely than women to commit suicide. In fact, male suicides are up more than fifty percent in the U. S. since 1980. We’ve talked of these so-called “deaths by despair” a few times on BreakPoint.

Faced with all of these troubling realities, the APA identifies the problem with men as being “traditional masculinity,” which they define as “anti-femininity, achievement, eschewal of the appearance of weakness, and adventure, risk, and violence.”

That’s not how I define traditional masculinity. Anti-femininity? Violence? That sounds like being a jerk. Reading between the APA’s straw-men and caricatures, it becomes clear what assumptions are really behind the report.

Traditional masculinity, the authors go on to argue, is socially constructed. Real gender is “non-binary,” the report says. In fact, even identifying male sex with masculine gender betrays “heteronormative assumptions.” In other words, masculinity does not objectively exist. It is whatever we make it. The report actually says, “Psychologists should help boys and men create their own concepts of what it means to be male.”

LGBT ideology is taken by the authors of the report as gospel. “It’s no longer just (a) male-female binary,” says one. The report criticizes “individuals with religious affiliations and conservative social and political views, who may equate masculinity with heterosexuality.” These folks, hints the APA, need to be cured of their errant views.

The game here is painfully obvious. This isn’t science, it’s a worldview that sees masculinity as anyone would have defined it just a generation ago as a problem needing to be solved. But as David French writes at the National Review, the APA has it all backward. The real plight of boys and men today coincides with our culture’s rejection of traditional masculinity, not the embrace of it! To say that the answer is to further deconstruct what it means to be a man is ludicrous.

Our society has no fixed categories of what it means to be a man, much less any resources for catechizing the next generation of men.

Rest of the story at link: BreakPoint: Pathologizing Masculinity - Break Point

 

[kufe]

I definitely agree that further deconstructing masculinity is not the way to go for males these days, but I believe their belief in taking away the association of masculinity, heterosexuality and the male gender is due to the perspective of men and women being equal (thats what I assume is the pov of the secular world) but ofcourse that could be further from the truth considering that men and women are built differently and have different roles to play not necessarily implying that one role is better than the other. But generally speaking this whole ideology is driven by the idea of total equality within the genders in society, but as it is seen in todays world I dont think that perspective is helping anyone.

 

[Silmarien]

Traditional masculinity, the authors go on to argue, is socially constructed. Real gender is “non-binary,” the report says. In fact, even identifying male sex with masculine gender betrays “heteronormative assumptions.” In other words, masculinity does not objectively exist. It is whatever we make it. The report actually says, “Psychologists should help boys and men create their own concepts of what it means to be male.”

You seem to take for granted that an objective standard of masculinity actually does exist. Could you describe it for me? Significant portions of what we consider traditional masculinity certainly strike me as socially constructed, since every time someone tries to put it into words, it looks as if they're just coding virtues like strength and integrity as inherently masculine, and that smells a lot like misogyny to me.

Bring back traditional virtues, absolutely, but I don't see how gender coding them does anything except set up another Boys Only Club.

 

[redleghunter]

You seem to take for granted that an objective standard of masculinity actually does exist. Could you describe it for me? Significant portions of what we consider traditional masculinity certainly strike me as socially constructed, since every time someone tries to put it into words, it looks as if they're just coding virtues like strength and integrity as inherently masculine, and that smells a lot like misogyny to me.

Bring back traditional virtues, absolutely, but I don't see how gender coding them does anything except set up another Boys Only Club.

Did you have time for the full article at the link?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Ironically it is Hollywood that often best portrays the ideal in masculinity.

 

[Silmarien]

Did you have time for the full article at the link?

The David French one, yes. The APA one, no. But I wanted to know what you thought traditional masculinity was, and the APA Guidelines aren't going to answer that question.

Wigs and stockings are pretty traditionally masculine, after all, if we go back to the 18th century. Nobody would consider that an objective standard, though.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Masculinity is just normal behavior for men and boys. I think psychologists are conflating normal and abnormal behaviors, and fashioning some goofy notions about masculinity.

 

[kufe]

You seem to take for granted that an objective standard of masculinity actually does exist. Could you describe it for me? Significant portions of what we consider traditional masculinity certainly strike me as socially constructed, since every time someone tries to put it into words, it looks as if they're just coding virtues like strength and integrity as inherently masculine, and that smells a lot like misogyny to me.

Bring back traditional virtues, absolutely, but I don't see how gender coding them does anything except set up another Boys Only Club.

If you look into the definition masculinity, is normally meant as an adjective to describe certain traits in men that seem more robust or "tough", so I wouldn't necessarily say its misogyny just more so a trait that characterizes certain aspects of the male. personally I just do see how associating the male with masculinity can be seen as misogyny, considering there is nothing in the definition that puts any negative bias towards women.

 

[kufe]

"

If you look into the definition masculinity, is normally meant as an adjective to describe certain traits in men that seem more robust or "tough", so I wouldn't necessarily say its misogyny just more so a trait that characterizes certain aspects of the male. personally I just DONT see how associating the male with masculinity can be seen as misogyny, considering there is nothing in the definition that puts any negative bias towards women.[/QUOTE
(made a typo lool)

 

[Paidiske]

If you look into the definition masculinity, is normally meant as an adjective to describe certain traits in men that seem more robust or "tough", so I wouldn't necessarily say its misogyny just more so a trait that characterizes certain aspects of the male. personally I just don't see how associating the male with masculinity can be seen as misogyny, considering there is nothing in the definition that puts any negative bias towards women.

The negative bias is evident in your post. If masculinity is what is more robust or tough, women by implication are less robust or tough.

What I observe is that some of our cultural constructions of what it means to be a man are harmful to the men themselves to whom they are applied, to those with whom they are in relationships, and to our society as a whole. (This is also true of some of our cultural constructions of what it means to be a woman, btw). So why not be willing to engage in constructive critique of our own culture?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The negative bias is evident in your post. If masculinity is what is more robust or tough, women by implication are less robust or tough.

What I observe is that some of our cultural constructions of what it means to be a man are harmful to the men themselves to whom they are applied, to those with whom they are in relationships, and to our society as a whole. (This is also true of some of our cultural constructions of what it means to be a woman, btw). So why not be willing to engage in constructive critique of our own culture?

Our culture is falling apart. No amount of 'self-criticism' will change it. It's the last days, we're circling the drain...doomed!

 

[Paidiske]

Our culture is falling apart. No amount of 'self-criticism' will change it. It's the last days, we're circling the drain...doomed!

I'm sorry, OWG, but I actually laughed at this. We have no way of knowing if it's the last days or not, but what I can look back on is 2,000-odd years of Christians, some of whom in every generation were convinced it was the last days. We might well have another 2,000 - or more - to get through yet. And if we aren't going to find it all ending tomorrow, I'd like to do the best I can for the time we have left, you know?

 

[kufe]

but looking at what masculinity represents I do not see it as negative, what makes it negative is how the term is applied to real world situations; whether a fathers love is based on how masculine the son is, or a relationship between the woman and man is based on how tough and robust her man is. All I am saying is that masculinity itself is not a bad word to use to describe an aspect of what a man is same as how calling a women independent is not a bad word to use to describe a characteristic of her. what can cause the term to be negative is how it is applied to the individual in their life situations with family, friends, school, etc. Besides we need these kinds of descriptions because it allows us to further understand the male because every male is masculine to some extent whether it would be their looks or their behaviour but again how the term is perceived and applied in society is what can cause it to be condemning to both the male and female.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

A new report on boys and men from the American Psychological Association reminded me, again, why worldview is so important. The report is the first of its kind from the APA, which has previously issued guidelines for girls and women, as well as for so-called “sexual minorities.”

For years now, the APA has been at the forefront of legitimizing progressive gender and sexual ideologies, and this report is in that same vein. To put it mildly, their conclusions are less clinical recommendations than they are naked worldview assertions.

Of course, the report isn’t all false ideologies. It opens, in fact, by recognizing a true and painful reality: Men and boys in America are not doing well. They’re diagnosed with ADHD at twice the rate of girls, they perform worse on standardized tests, they’re suspended and expelled from school at a disproportionate rate. As they get older, men use drugs and alcohol more often. They don’t seek help for mental health issues like depression as frequently as women do. They commit 90 percent of homicides, and make up 77 percent of homicide victims. They account for 93 percent of federal prison inmates and are 3.5 times more likely than women to commit suicide. In fact, male suicides are up more than fifty percent in the U. S. since 1980. We’ve talked of these so-called “deaths by despair” a few times on BreakPoint.

Faced with all of these troubling realities, the APA identifies the problem with men as being “traditional masculinity,” which they define as “anti-femininity, achievement, eschewal of the appearance of weakness, and adventure, risk, and violence.”

That’s not how I define traditional masculinity. Anti-femininity? Violence? That sounds like being a jerk. Reading between the APA’s straw-men and caricatures, it becomes clear what assumptions are really behind the report.

Traditional masculinity, the authors go on to argue, is socially constructed. Real gender is “non-binary,” the report says. In fact, even identifying male sex with masculine gender betrays “heteronormative assumptions.” In other words, masculinity does not objectively exist. It is whatever we make it. The report actually says, “Psychologists should help boys and men create their own concepts of what it means to be male.”

LGBT ideology is taken by the authors of the report as gospel. “It’s no longer just (a) male-female binary,” says one. The report criticizes “individuals with religious affiliations and conservative social and political views, who may equate masculinity with heterosexuality.” These folks, hints the APA, need to be cured of their errant views.

The game here is painfully obvious. This isn’t science, it’s a worldview that sees masculinity as anyone would have defined it just a generation ago as a problem needing to be solved. But as David French writes at the National Review, the APA has it all backward. The real plight of boys and men today coincides with our culture’s rejection of traditional masculinity, not the embrace of it! To say that the answer is to further deconstruct what it means to be a man is ludicrous.

Our society has no fixed categories of what it means to be a man, much less any resources for catechizing the next generation of men.

Rest of the story at link: BreakPoint: Pathologizing Masculinity - Break Point

I think the issue is that the "traditional masculinity" they are talking about is not biblical masculinity. Meaning, they are now starting to realize that THEIR redefined "jerk" form of masculinity has come back to bite them in the butt so now once again they must redefine masculinity.

 

[redleghunter]

The David French one, yes. The APA one, no. But I wanted to know what you thought traditional masculinity was, and the APA Guidelines aren't going to answer that question.

Wigs and stockings are pretty traditionally masculine, after all, if we go back to the 18th century. Nobody would consider that an objective standard, though.

Think you picked fashion to define man roles.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Here is one question that identifies the root of the problem for men today. When does a boy become a man? If you had a hard time answering this question, that is the problem! At this point in our society, boys are growing up never truly understanding what manhood is? They are floating in the wind searching for manhood in all the wrong places. This is the consequence of the fatherless generation and feminists movements. Today, manhood is some vague abstract idea rather than a rite of passage.

 

[kufe]

Here is one question that identifies the root of the problem for men today. When does a boy become a man?

I dont really think theres a set time for that, I think thats a subjective matter based of the situation that boy is in. but I dont see how that is the root of the problem.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

I dont really think theres a set time for that, I think thats a subjective matter based of the situation that boy is in. but I dont see how that is the root of the problem.

I edited my post to clarify.

If you had a hard time answering this question, that is the problem! At this point in our society, boys are growing up never truly understanding what manhood is? They are floating in the wind searching for manhood in all the wrong places. This is the consequence of the fatherless generation and feminists movements. Today, manhood is some vague abstract idea rather than a rite of passage.

The problem is that many boys have absolutely no clue as to what a man actually is. Many don't have a fatherly figure in their lives to show them. Legally they are adults at 18. Obama care has them at 26. Some figure that the mark of a true man is how many women they objectify and sleep with. Others turn to gangs. In every case you will find a lost boy desperately trying to figure it out one their own.

Let me be clear, the problem is not our society. The problem is not our culture. Heck, the problem is not the APA. It is today's Christian father's who failed to step up to the plate and become the powerful man of God he was called and created to be. The problem is the Christian men who sat on the sidelines and passively allowed this problem to happen. During my time in youth ministry, I cannot tell you how many times I had to help "pick up the pieces" of the heart of a broken child left over from a punk father who still acts like a child himself. I am tired of it. Christian men, stand up and be a man.

 

[kufe]

I edited my post to clarify.



The problem is that boys have absolutely no clue as to what a man actually is. Most don't have a fatherly figure in their lives to show them. Legally they are adults at 18. Obama care has them at 26. Some figure that the mark of a true man is how many women they objectify and sleep with. Others turn to gangs. In every case you will find a lost boy desperately trying to figure it out one their own.

Let me be clear, the problem is not our society. The problem is not our culture. Heck, the problem is not the APA. It is today's Christian father's who failed to step up to the plate and become the powerful man of God he was called and created to be. The problem is the Christian men who sat on the sidelines and passively allowed this problem to happen. During my time in youth ministry, I cannot tell you how many times I had to help "pick up the pieces" of the heart of a broken child left over from a punk father who still acts like a child himself. I am tired of it. Christian men, stand up and be a man.

Agreed, but unfortunately what it means to be a man, according to society is something that is subjective and influenced by peoples general opinions as well as beliefs but I base my beliefs on what it is to be a man according to what God defines a man as but because the majority of society's beliefs are growing tangent towards the word of God year by year you soon start to see destructive behaviours take place including those behaviours of young boys who try to be a man based on what their idea of what a man is.

 

[SolomonVII]

What traditional masculinity once meant was taking responsibility onto oneself and stepping up to the plate and taking care of a wife and family. Masculine roles were based in the need society has for fathers being the core of the family unit, to take on roles that male physiology and testosterone make men particularly adept at.
The alternative to that role is not having those kind of expectations operates on the principle of vice versa. Like the magic principle is as above so below, vice versa is that once the ideal of my body, my choice is accepted, then vice versa. Not my choice, not my responsibility.
Without any incentives to take on responsibility, the victimhood model of David French and male rights activists miss the mark. Life for males without responsibilities being a prerequisite for being a man, modern life for the modern male is a lot of fun. Video games are funnier than diapers, inappropriate contentography is available for any male not matter how socially desirable he may be, minimal work is required to have a lot of fun.
Opioids are not a cry for help. They are a great feeling, and too much fun is a moral principle, not a factor in the pursuit for the best high possible.

Fatherhood is not a male physiological response. It is a social construct. Males are comaparively slow to maturity and it takes great effort to socialize those with a physiology more geared to adventure than to nurturance. It is learned behaviour, and when it is no longer taught as the normal, expected path, the male of this species have no problem pleasuring themselves to death.
Boys have been taught for generations now that girls are doing it for themselves, and they are mainly just fine with that.
Men in the West are exactly as we have been socially engineered to be.
Do women have a problem with that?