Partial preterest

[Parousia]

Dear Jadis, I am interested as to why you say that the destruction of the Temple was based on Jesus’ words?
Would you please take the time to consider these following remarks without taking offence because I mean none toward you.

Capitals used for emphasis only.
Matthew 24: 1. And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

Matthew 24: 2. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not ALL THESE THINGS? verily I say unto you, There shall NOT BE LEFT HERE ONE STONE UPON ANOTHER, THAT SHALL NOT BE THROWN DOWN.

In verse 2. Jesus said ‘SEE ALL THESE THINGS.’ That means every thing constructed on that site.
Jesus did not single out the Temple.
He was saying ‘SEE ALL THESE THINGS.’ That means everything constructed on that site.
The wailing wall was a part of that structure and is still standing there stone upon stone, today.

You may think me padantic, however I did not write these words, quote “There shall NOT BE LEFT HERE ONE STONE UPON ANOTHER, THAT SHALL NOT BE THROWN DOWN.”
Was every stone thrown down from ‘ALL THESE THINGS?’
No, because we still have the Wailing wall, that structure has massive stones left one upon another.
The Disciples, were quick to identify those remarks by Jesus, as concerning, quote. ‘Thy coming’ and the ‘end of the world.’

Matthew 24: 3. “And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be THE SIGN OF THY COMING, and of THE END OF THE WORLD?”

Our Lord, did not refute or deny their question as being fancifal or out of context.
There was that link, it was made by the Disciples, about ALL those stones being thrown down and not one being left upon another to His ‘second advent’ and ‘end of the world.’
Jesus, immeditely launched into answering their question.

The Lord, made no deviasion within His answere from the intent of that question. He went right on through.
Yes the Temple, was destroyed in 70AD, as has been the case before, but I do not beleive it has anything to do with the specific words of Jesus, concerning ALL the stones being cast down because they weren’t.
Therefore there was no connection at the Temple being destroyed in relation to the second coming

This I will say to Parousia.
It is within the very detailed words of Jesus, that we find the truth and because those words in Matt 24: 3. Are read with man made assumptions we have preterists running around telling people that ‘the second advent was in 70AD.’
All because, of their haste to broadcast things without due care.
As I have said before, pretrists giving that specific generation standiing before Jesus, a sign of His coming when Jesus, said they would not receive any sign eccept the sign of Jonas is not being true to His very words.
Maranatha.
PC.

It was to the WICKED of that generation that no sign was to be given!!!!! Jesus clearly gave signs (Matthew 24) to His disciples of that generation, but they were NOT the ones addressed in Matthew 12. It was in the context of WHO HE WAS that those wicked of that generation sought a sign. It was from their wicked hearts that the Scribes and Pharisees sought a sign. Jesus had ALREADY proven Who is was. They needed no further sign. THAT IS THE CONTEXT. You cannot carry that over to the context of Matthew 24.

The disciples were NOT asking Jesus to prove Who He was! They were desiring to know WHEN not WHO!!!! When will these THINGS happen? That is completely different!

Again, Jesus spoke the things of Matthew 24 TO His disciples right there with Him about things that were to happen to THEM. The "signs" were given to THEM to forewarn THEM. Jesus said, "See, I have told YOU beforehand."

His disciples were NOT part of the wicked of THAT generation who in spite of Jesus' many demonstrations of His right to be called the Son of God and the Messiah still sinfully and hatefully demanded more!

Can you not see the difference?

Parousia

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

It was to the WICKED of that generation that no sign was to be given!!!!! Jesus clearly gave signs (Matthew 24) to His disciples of that generation, but they were NOT the ones addressed in Matthew 12. It was in the context of WHO HE WAS that those wicked of that generation sought a sign. It was from their wicked hearts that the Scribes and Pharisees sought a sign. Jesus had ALREADY proven Who is was. They needed no further sign. THAT IS THE CONTEXT. You cannot carry that over to the context of Matthew 24.

The disciples were NOT asking Jesus to prove Who He was! They were desiring to know WHEN not WHO!!!! When will these THINGS happen? That is completely different!

Again, Jesus spoke the things of Matthew 24 TO His disciples right there with Him about things that were to happen to THEM. The "signs" were given to THEM to forewarn THEM. Jesus said, "See, I have told YOU beforehand."

His disciples were NOT part of the wicked of THAT generation who in spite of Jesus' many demonstrations of His right to be called the Son of God and the Messiah still sinfully and hatefully demanded more!

Can you not see the difference?

Parousia

________________________________________________


Parousia, quote.
“It was to the WICKED of that generation that no sign was to be given!!!!!” Unquote.

Yes you are right, no sign would be given to that generation except the sign of Jonas. See Matthew 24: 11, 12. And they received that only sign even the Disciples, for that matter.

When General Titus attacked Jerusalem, that was NOT A SIGN of the Lord’s second coming in 70AD.
So please stop insisting it was, without any Bible, backup whatsoever.

Also you CONVENIENTLY forget Rev 1: 7. “Behold, he cometh with clouds; and EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM, and THEY also WHICH PIERCED HIM: and ALL KINDREDS OF THE EARTH SHALL WAIL BECAUSE OF HIM. EVEN SO, AMEN.”
That means every eye not just the FEW Disciples, when you try and separate the good and bad to make your preterist misplaced theory of a second coming that did not occur, when General Titus and the Roman army attacked Jerusalem. Your preterist teaching defies Rev 1: 7.

Parousia, quote.
“Jesus clearly gave signs (Matthew 24) to His disciples of that generation, but they were NOT the ones addressed in Matthew 12.” Unquote.

Parousia, look at the CONTEXT OF Matthew 24: 2 And Jesus said unto them, SEE ye not ALL THESE THINGS? verily I say unto you, THERE SHALL NOT BE LEFT HERE ONE STONE UPON ANOTHER, THAT SHALL NOT BE THROWN DOWN.
The original Wailing Wall, is still standing today, stone upon stone.
Therefore the prophecy remains unfulfilled.
Being unfulfilled, makes obvious the grossly offensive, erroneous, preterist, teaching of the ‘second coming in 70AD’ as fancifully fictional at best!

Also it was the Disciples, with the Lord’s acquiesce, that linked ALL those stones being cast down and not remaining one upon another with His second advent in verse 3 of ‘the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?’

Parousia, quote.
“It was in the context of WHO HE WAS that those wicked of that generation sought a sign. It was from their wicked hearts that the Scribes and Pharisees sought a sign.” Unquote.

Of course they were wicked, that was made obvious, but they still received the sign of Jonas, that they were promised by Jesus.

When Jesus, comes the heavens will melt with fervent heat with a great noise and all eyes will see HIM not just the few, that you try to imply. Rev 1: 7.


Preterist’s theories of the supposed second advent in 70AD, could not have occurred because affliction has continued, by their reckoning after that day
How much evidence does a preterist, need from the Bible, before they at least understand something?

2 Peter 3: 12. Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat.
2 Peter 3: 13. Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Where are the new heavens and Earth where righteousness dwells? Where on this sinful planet?

Parousia, quote.
Jesus had ALREADY proven Who is was. They needed no further sign. THAT IS THE CONTEXT. You cannot carry that over to the context of Matthew 24.

The context of Mathew 24 is simple. Verse 3. See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
The Wailing Wall remains, which renders the preterist teaching false.
And if as you say the Disciples, needed no more proof, then they needed no more signs. Yet they asked the question of the sign of his second coming and they were given the explanation of those signs to come.

Parousia, quote.
”The disciples were NOT asking Jesus to prove Who He was! They were desiring to know WHEN not WHO!!!! When will these THINGS happen? That is completely different!” Unquote.

I NEVER said the Disciples, were asking for Him to prove who He was.
Where did that come from? Certainly not from me.

What I have quoted was verse 2. “And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

After He mentioned ALL the stones not remaining one upon the another the Disciples associated that with the second coming and end of the world in verse 3” “And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”

All they were doing was asking,
“when shall these things be?”
“and what shall be the sign of thy coming,”
“and of the end of the world?”

Parousia, quote.
“Again, Jesus spoke of the things of Matthew 24 TO His disciples right there with Him about things that were to happen to THEM. The "signs" were given to THEM to forewarn THEM. Jesus said, "See, I have told YOU beforehand." Unquote.

Preterists still reject 2 Peter 3: Just reads all the things preterists reject.

2 Peter 3: 5. But the HEAVENS and the EARTH, WHICH ARE NOW, by the SAME WORD are KEPT IN STORE, RESERVED UNTO FIRE against the DAY OF JUDGMENT and PERDITION of UNGODLY MEN.
8. But, beloved, BE NOT IGNORANT of this ONE THING, that ONE DAY is with the Lord as a THOUSAND YEARS, and a THOUSAND YEARS AS ONE DAY.

9. The Lord is NOT SLACK concerning HIS PROMISE, as some men count slackness; but is LONGSUFFERING to US-ward, NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERRISH, but that ALL should come to REPENTANCE.

10. But the DAY OF THE LORD WILL COME as a thief in the night; in the which the HEAVENS shall PASS AWAY with a GREAT NOISE, and the ELEMENTS SHALL MELT with FERVENT HEAT, THE EARTH ALSO and the WORKS THAT ARE THEREIN SHALL BE BURNED UP.

11. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12. LOOKING FOR THE HASTING UNTO THE COMING OF THE DAY OF GOD, wherein the HEAVENS BEING ON FIRE shall be DISSOLVED, and the ELEMENTS SHALL MELT with fervent heat?

13. Nevertheless WE, ACCORDING TO HIS PROMISE, LOOK for NEW HAEAVENS and a NEW EARTH, wherein DWELLETH RIGHTEOUSNESS.

14. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

15. And account that the LONGSUFFERING of our Lord is SALVATION; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16. As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things HARD BE UNDERSTOOD, which they that are UNLEARNED and UNSTABLE WREST, as they do ALSO THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, unto their OWN DESTRUCTION.

17. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being LED AWAY WITH ERROR of the WICKED, fall from your own stedfastness.

18. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

After being told these things His Disciples, wrote them down for us to know, As I said before ‘forewarned is forearmed.’ And we are waiting as He said with our eyes looking up for those signs.

Parousia, quote.
“His disciples were NOT part of the wicked of THAT generation who in spite of Jesus' many demonstrations of His right to be called the Son of God and the Messiah still sinfully and hatefully demanded more!
Can you not see the difference?” Unquote.

Of course, that very simple fact would be obvious to all Bible, Christians.
And all Bible Christians, would know that the stones are still piled up one upon another and wait to see them ALL tumble as Jesus, said they would and look up for the signs of His ‘second coming in the clouds’ as the Disciples, wrote down for our edification.

Peter, said that ‘a day is like a thousand years to God, and a thousand is like a day’ and that ‘He delays so that all might repent and be saved’ and being patient Bible Christians we ALL wait looking up for those promised signs of His second advent. Amen.

All wait except the prererist.

 

[Jipsah]

I answered the question but obviously you did not read it or most likely as a preterist were not able to comprehend it just like preterists seem do with the Bible.

Oh, I comprehend the Bible just fine. It's just circumlocution and blatherskite that I have problems with. If the answer to my question was so buried under mounds of impenetrable verbiage, then I may in fact have lacked the patience to find it.

What is your problem

See above.

let me repeat what I said in capitals for your edification if that is at all possible.
MY QUOTE WAS. “ THE SACRIFICE OF THE PASSOVER LAMB WAS FINISHED BY THE LAMB OF GOD, AT THE CROSS. Unquote.

Ah, so there really was an answer buried in all that rowdydow! Excellent!

I agree whole heartedly that your opinion doesn’t need as much verbiage to explain because you haven’t much to explain have you?

Waitaminit, I thought you just said that you believed that sacrifice had ceased as well. Now you saying you don't? Make up your mind, homey.

Most of my posts contain lots of Bible verses so if you want to call them Bible ‘verbiage’ that’s your choice.

You don't consider the Bible to be verbiage?

You broke the commandment by telling untruths

I'll give that precisely the sort of response it deserves - bite me.

The Bible, is a Jewish book, It is about Jewish traditions.

You reckon the Gospel is about Jewish traditions? I don't think so. I think they're about God Himself entering human history. Why do you suppose we'd continue to worry about Jewish traditions when the Creator Himself has come to show us the crystalline Truth? The Jews, if you'll recall, made the Law of no effect by their tradtions, and were blinded to the advent of their Lord by their clinging to tradition rather than embracing the Light of the World. That's a mistake I don't care to emulate. You may, of course, do as seems good to you.

It is now that I understand CLEARLY that you cannot differentiate the holy days governed by the moon and types of sacrifices from one to another

Which has precisely what to do with the price of eggs? Did sacrifice and oblation cease or not? Pick one and go with it.

Shame on you Jipsah

I've already used an appropriate response to that once, and I won't repeat it lest I overuse it. You can just mentally insert it here if you like.

you act like a preterist.

Orthodox preterist, thanks. I consider futurism a species of superstition.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Is there someone out there that is able to translate gobbledegook from the above post?

 

[Pilgrimer]

Back up your view.


Tell me why you believe in this view. I welcome it.

The two primary reasons I turned from the futurist to the partial preterist view is because I believe the kingdom Jesus Christ came and laid down his life to open to Jew and Gentile is the kingdom of heaven, not the kingdom of Israel and secondly, I believe that Jesus Christ reigns now over all things and has made us kings and priests that we might reign with him.
For me, the heart of the issue is the kingdom and the power of Christ.
In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Traditions.
Those Jewish traditions were taught by Moses and he received instructions from GOD, called ‘Mosaic Law.’

“Deuteronomy 17: 6. At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.”

Two witnesses will appear ‘just before the great and terrible day of the Lord. Two witnesses that’s all it needs to condemn Satan.
Rev 11: Where Satan, will kill them after 1260 days in the MIDDLE OF THE LAST WEEK. See verse 7 until they are raised by the voice of the 7th trumpet verse 15, which BEING THE LAST TRUMPET, ends the tribulation period. God’s people are then changed along with this old planet and that has not happened yet.
See 1 Cor 15: 49 – 57. Rev 21: 1 – 7.

So 3 ½ days later. From the middle of that last week concerning Daniel 9: 24 – 27 of the seventy weeks the two are raised. If we go back just a little to Dan 8:
The last vision Daniel, saw was Daniel 8: where he was told by Gabriel, in verse 17 and 18 “Understand, O son of man: FOR AT THE TIME OF THE END shall be THE VISION.”
“I will make thee know WHAT SHALL BE IN THE LAST END of the indignation: FOR AT THE TIME APPOINTED THE END.”

The angel returned in Dan 9: 23 to explain the last vision Daniel saw recorded as Daniel 8 by saying ”greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.”
Then Gabriel launched into THE SEVENTY WEEKS to explain the vision that he previously had said quote “Understand, O son of man: FOR AT THE TIME OF THE END shall be THE VISION.”

That clearly puts the seventy weeks being used to explain that vision firmly into the future called the ‘LAST END’ and note “Understand, O son of man: FOR AT THE TIME OF THE END shall be THE VISION.”
That vision lasts for 2300 ‘ereb’ ‘boqer.’ Those two words were used for creation week.

So FROM THE MIDST OF THE LAST WEEK they, the two witnesses will rise, at the seventh trumpet verse 12 and Satan, will be condemned by the mouths of those same two witnesses, Elijah and Moses.
See Deut 18: 18, 19. Malachi 4: 5, 6.
In John 1: 19 – 23. The Jews were looking for the Messiah, because they knew that Elijah and ‘that Prophet’ Moses, were to precede the messiah at his appearing.
However the Jews were waiting for an all powerful God. Thus the two did not need to precede Jesus, He preceded them and Peter a Jew witnessed the transfiguration and knew and recognised Elijah and Moses .
Offerings, Sin offerings, sacrifice.
Serious Bible students, know there were many types of offerings that were carried out within the place of the daily also known as the ‘outer court.”
These sacrifices had nothing to do with the sacrifice of the Lamb/Son of God.
The Passover sacrifice was ended at the cross by the Lamb of God.

There are ‘Bible Christians that can distinguish the differences between the ‘praise His name offerings,’ to the ‘glorify His name offerings’ performed in the ‘evening and morning.’

Many traditional church lead Christians, have very little or no concept at all of the various types of sacrifices that were and will be performed again within the outer court. See Rev 11: 2. where the outer court is mentioned.

Establishing the fact that the seventy weeks were used to explain a time of the end vision, of Daniel 8: places them firmly at that time ‘last end’ also the angel said ‘time of the end.’
Dan 9: 27. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. or Desolator
The Desolator that confirms a covenant for one week and then stops the sacrifice in the midst of the week.

Covenant/agreement. There is the fact that Satan/little horn, will seek to change laws.
See Dan 7: 27. Satan loses his kingdom in verse 28.

The question is what sacrifice is to be performed and stopped by the Desolator IN THE MIDST of the LAST WEEK and it does not say years!

The Lamb’s sacrifice put an end to the Passover sacrifice at the cross.
What sacrifice would annoy the desolator and what sacrifice would it be that would not offend God?
The evening and morning offerings that are to ‘praise His name offerings’ to the ‘glory of His name offerings.’

However for a none Bible, but church taught Christian that is nigh impossible for them to understand.
They have said that ‘the sacrifice is THE sacrifice so it must be the Lord’s’
2 Timothy 2: 15. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

There are many traditions in the Bible.

Here is a tradition that turned to bigger things as most do.
‘The Sacrifice was ended at the cross on the Passover,’
which is the preparation day and Christ, was buried on an High Sabbath of ‘Unleavened bread’ and it was the ending of the Passover sacrifice on that Passover, also called the ‘preparation day’ as far as Christians were concerned and also some Jews, who had faith in the Lord.

Many Jews were the deadliest enemies of the ‘Son of God.’
Certain Jewish traditions set by the God, to herald His son were loved more than the truth by those high in the church. They even ignored the law and prophecy as many churches do today.

Isaiah 30: 9. That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
10. Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
11. Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.

The ten commandments were put there as a reminder of God’s standards, a reflection of His true character and our observance of them was asked for. JOHN 14: 15. If ye love me, keep my commandments.

It was God, that gave the JEWS the ten commandments through Moses.

However there is a problem when none Bible Christians try like Cain to worship God in their way and not the way He wants them to.
The question. Do we keep the Sabbath?
From what time does it start and to what time does it end?
What day is the Sabbath?
Some Baptists, keep the seventh day Sabbath, others keep Sunday.
What day should we keep?
I would say the fifth commandment Sabbath.

There are Jews for Christ of course and I hope we as Gentiles, can understand that fact.
Either way the Bible, is a Jewish book NOT a Gentile book. Ipso facto.

It was written by Jews, except for Daniel, chapter four which was written by the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar.
It was about the Jewish nations 12 tribes and Gentile nations that came into contact with them throughout history, and of course not excluding the fact that they had a relationship with ‘their God.
God who formed that nation from Abraham who was an Amorite and Sarah, who was an Hittite. .
I would suggest reading Ezekiel chapter 16: which identifies the Harlot as Jerusalem/Israel.

The Bible is full of Jewish traditions stretching over thousand of years and there is one very important tradition that we seem to miss completely and that is the fact that these Temple traditions pointed to the Christ, and it was Jesus, that fulfilled them to show the power and fairness of both the Saviour and God the Father as one in mind and purpose.

I will not go into the time spans of certain Temple events and those of Daniel or Revelation to save time.
Those Jewish laws and traditions instituted by GOD, eventually heralded the Saviour.
There are sound reasons for the traditions and memorials set by God.

Most Christians probably celebrate the Passover as the resurrection of the Christ with a pagan ritual of Easter.
The word 'Easter' may derive from the name of the pagan goddess of spring, Eostre.

Most Christians observe the first day of the week, the ‘venerable day of the sun god,’ instead of the commandment seventh day Sabbath.
Many Christians call the Sabbath, the ‘Jewish Sabbath.’ Yet it was instituted by God, on the seventh day of creation week

Within the fifth commandment it is called,
“the seventh day the sabbath of the LORD thy God:” It was around long before the Israelite nation.

That fifth commandment starts with the words quote. “Remember the Sabbath day.” Yet most Christians have forgotten it, for a pagan day and those that don’t know their Bibles, argue why they think they are right about keeping Sunday.

There are traditions and there are pagan traditions that God, tried to stamp out by having laws and memorials. It was the Lord that kept 73 Sabbaths in the New Testaments from my memory.
There were many Temple rituals put in place to keep reminding His people of Him and what He had done for them through certain traditional memorials and of what He was to do for them in the future.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Passover (Hebrew, Pesach, 'Feast of Unleavened Bread'), a major Jewish festival celebrated in spring (March-April) and lasting eight days. It marks God's angel 'passing over' the houses of the enslaved Jews in Egypt which had been marked with the blood of a lamb, thus saving their first-born from death and allowing them to escape to the desert. Houses are thoroughly cleaned to remove all leaven (raising agent for bread, such as yeast), because traditionally the Jews ate unleavened bread before their Exodus, having had no time to let it rise. The Seder ('order') meal occurs on the first and second nights. In commemorating the Exodus from slavery, Passover recalls and renews the unique historical identity of the Jewish people to be saved by God, a destiny emphasized by a series of questions about the meaning of the festival which must be asked by the youngest present. The answers are found in the Haggadah, or narrative, on the Passover story, which is read.

Exodus 12: 7. And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
8. And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.

‘The preparation day’ also called the ‘Passover’ and the high Sabbath day that followed was called the ‘the feast of Unleavened bread’ and was instituted by God, to remind His people, the Jews of their rescue, by Him. On the Passover at 12 midnight.

Exodus 12; 14. And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.

When the Israelites escaped from Egypt (Ex 12) it was on the Passover..
The rescue was repeated again on the 49th year called a Jubilee and on the seventh year see Ex 23: 11. Leviticus 25: 4, 20. Deut 15: 9, 12.
King Sennacherib of Assyria surrounded Jerusalem, king Hezekiah was scared stiff, 2 Kings 19.
When the last two tribes of Israel, were left at the mercy of the Assyrian king, God stepped in when He was blasphemed see 2 Kings 20: 6..
It was on the ‘Jubilee’ and at night on the ‘Passover,’ when king Sennacherib’s forces of 165000 died during the night. The SAME time down to the hour.
His people were rescued from Egypt at 12 midnight. and from the king of Syria, Sennacherib (705–671BC) at 12 midnight on the seventh year on the 49 year, a Jubilee. See 2 Kings 18: 13 – 19: 37. and Isaiah 36: 37:
That was the tradition at 12 midnight being rescued twice.
Now when He returns we have to be rescued from SIN.
We need to be saved again from sin to gain the promised inheritance of everlasting life within the laws of God, and the kingdom must be gained back legally from Satan, to which it was lost by the first Adam.

However it was a forerunner of things to come. Pointing to the Saviour, the ‘Lamb of God’ and they missed Him when He came to Earth, even though He walked amongst them.

The sacrificial tradition, that pointed to the ‘Lamb of God.
His BLOOD, and the WINE.
His FLESH, and the unleavened BREAD.
Which Jesus, did eat and drink the Passover, with the Disciples, before He became the real thing to enable HIM, to rescue all, from sin, as would please God, according to His moral law.

This is how God, used tradition through memorials so we can see.
John 6: 32. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33. FOF THE BREAD OF GOD IS HE WHICH COMETH DOWN FROM HEAVEN, AND GIVETH LIFE UNTO THE WORLD.

34. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

35. And Jesus said unto them, I AM THE BREAD OF LIFE: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

37. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life:
There are so many Jewish traditions that point to the coming Christ and to the Eschatological end.
God, has a relationship with all His people, of ‘every kindred and tongue,’ they are the faithful, who are to be blessed at the wedding supper. See Rev 19: 1 – 10.

I do not believe that this is God’s kingdom because if He had returned in 70AD.
We would be on the new Earth, by now.
Seeing this place vanish along with the old heavens will be a real treat. We would be seeing God, in the great city with no Temple and the new Earth, would have no sea.

If He came in 70AD we would be victorious over death and we would truly be saved and the sun would not be glaring down upon our heads because the light would be from the new Jerusalem.

That was the promise at the voice of trumpet seven that heralds His second coming and none of those things has yet occurred.
So we are still waiting because those stones on the Wailing Wall have yet to be cast down. See Matt 24: 2.

The point is we are not in the kingdom of God because WE ARE STILL FLESH and blood mortals.
1 Cor 15: 50. “Now THIS I SAY, brethren, that FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
These promises were promised at his second coming, and none have been started let alone fulfilled.

1 Cor 15: 51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the DEAD shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56. The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
How could there be His advent and not the above promise not kept? That’s easy to answer. He did not come back in 70AD because Jesus keeps His promises.

Some think that God, can do what He likes, well He can’t and would not in any case.
God, will not and cannot just take back the kingdom of Earth from Satan. The rescue plan had to fit within God’s own laws.

Jesus, had to become a member of Adam’s family to claim back the inheritance of that family.

He had to be the son of Abraham to whom the promise was made and a son of David to be a king enabling Him to claim back the kingdom of Earth. See Matthew 1: 1 – 17.

That is why we have all the begats, called the generation of Jesus.
HE had to claim the kingdom, not as God, but as a man.

He relinquished His Godness the Word parted from Godness and became a man and after He is found worthy, as the Lamb to take back His Godness, power, glory and the kingdoms of the Earth. See Rev 15: 12, 13.
He will be judged worthy as the Lamb of God by created beings.
Jewish traditions all pointed to our Lord.
It is about our relationship with Him that makes us acceptable to our Father.

Of course the sacrifice of the Lamb was ended at the crucifixion, there is no doubt about that fact.
Now we wait for His soon return.
Amen.

 

[Iosias]

We don't have to deny that stuff that happened actually happened, or have to "explain" why it happened but it didn't really count.

made me smile

 

[Iosias]

Two amazing commentaries from a partial preterist position are:

John Lightfoot on Matthew 24 and John Gill on Matthew 24

 

[JerryShugart]

Two amazing commentaries from a partial preterist position are:

John Lightfoot on Matthew 24 and John Gill on Matthew 24

The partial preterists make a huge mistake when the attempt to make the events that will occur at the "end of the age" unto a judgment on Israel alone. The Lord Jesus' words in Matthew 24 were in regard to the following question:

“Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the age?” (Mt.24:3).

Earlier the Lord Jesus spoke the parable of the “tares of the field” where He described what would occur at the “end of the age”:

“He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this age. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear” (Mt.13:37-43).

Here we can see that the Lord Jesus speaks of a harvest that will happen at the “end of the age”, the “end of this age”. He also makes it clear that the harvest will take place in the field, and He says that the “field is the world” (kosmos).

The Greek word translated “world” is “kosmos” and it means “the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race…Mt.xiii. 38” (“Thayer’s Greek English Lexicon”).

Since no world wide harvest happened in A.D.70 or at anytime in the past it is evident that the "end of the age" remains in the future.

The partial preterists are wrong.

In His grace,--Jerry

 

[Parousia]

"This generation" is NOT the generation of evil men. THAT is a presupposition. Preterists are NOT the ones reading into the Scriptures. Jesus clearly said, "THIS generation will by no means pass away till ALL these things take place.

Again, ALL uses of that expression in the NT refer to those contemporaneous to the speaker or writer. It is forcing a foreign meaning to this expression by saying that it refers to all evil men! That is obviously NOT the normal, common, everyday, usual usage of the expression. Futurists would NOT stumble over this except for this problem: taking it literally (something they pride themselves on) argues AGAINST their eschatology!

Furthermore, just because Jesus said He did not know the DAY nor the HOUR does NOT mean He did not know the TIME frame! He "came" in AD 70--the day and the exact hour was not known until then. WE were not told to watch--Jesus' disciples there with Him THEN were told to watch. THEY were told to understand the parable of the fig tree--THEY were to know that His coming was near--even at the doors!

Jesus said that those apostate, first-century, wicked, hypocritical, Jews of His day were to be judged and held accountable for ALL the righteous blood shed on the earth. He was NOT speaking to a generation which included all evil men but to THOSE particular disobedient, adulterous, unbelieving Jews of His day! He said to THEM--"ALL these things will come upon THIS generation." He said it--NOT preterists. And yet futurists accuse them of not understanding plain language. This is clearly a fulfillment of Daniel 9. This is clearly the filling up of the measure of their guilt predicted by Daniel. "Assuredly, I say to you, ALL these things will come upon THIS generation."

Why do futurists insist of accusing preterists of the things for which they themselves are guilty?

Jesus told His disciples there with Him--"You will be killed." Why do futurists then say that it refers to US?

Jesus told His disciples standing right there in front of Him--"When YOU see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet . . . ." How many abominations of desolation did Daniel see? Jesus' disciples right there with Him THEN were to see the abomination of desolation and they DID! What don't futurists understand about simple words?

It is because the plain words do not fit futurism that a simple expression such as "this generation" is forced to mean the generation of evil men. Where is the biblical justification for that? Again, I emphasize the demonstrative pronoun THIS. Jesus said THIS clearly referring to the generation in which He then lived; the generation to whom He was then speaking about things that were to happen to those of that generation! What is the crime preterists commit by taking Jesus at His word? We are not the ones twisting the Scriptures to our own end.

What did Jesus say? "YOU will be hated." "YOU will hear of wars and rumors of wars." "See that YOU are not troubled."

Jesus said to Caiaphas right there with Him--"YOU will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power and COMING on the clouds of heaven." Who? Caiaphas--the chief priest of Jesus' day!

Jesus said: "Some of YOU standing HERE will not taste death till YOU see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Who would see Him before THEY died? Some of THOSE standing right there with Him THEN! What is the crime preterists commit by taking Jesus AT HIS WORD?

Do futurists not see that it is not the plain words of Jesus that cause them difficulty but their incorrect concept of His coming! Because THEY cannot see His coming in the sense in which they understand it, they redefine simple words in order to make things FIT!

THIS generation will by no means pass away till ALL THESE THINGS take place." Why do we not put our energy into attempting to discover the fulfillment of these things in the generation in which Jesus clearly placed them instead of clinging to a false concept and thereby being forced to do injustice to the sacred words of our Lord?

Parousia

 

[JerryShugart]

Two amazing commentaries from a partial preterist position are:

John Lightfoot on Matthew 24 and John Gill on Matthew 24

The partial preterists make a huge mistake when the attempt to make the events that will occur at the "end of the age" unto a judgment on Israel alone. The Lord Jesus' words in Matthew 24 were in regard to the following question:

“Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the age?” (Mt.24:3).

Earlier the Lord Jesus spoke the parable of the “tares of the field” where He described what would occur at the “end of the age”:

“He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this age. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear” (Mt.13:37-43).

Here we can see that the Lord Jesus speaks of a harvest that will happen at the “end of the age”, the “end of this age”. He also makes it clear that the harvest will take place in the field, and He says that the “field is the world” (kosmos).

The Greek word translated “world” is “kosmos” and it means “the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race…Mt.xiii. 38” (“Thayer’s Greek English Lexicon”).

Since no world wide harvest happened in A.D.70 or at anytime in the past it is evident that the "end of the age" remains in the future.

The partial preterists are wrong.

In His grace,--Jerry

 

[NumberOneSon]

Jerry, why the double post? We've seen it already.

 

[JerryShugart]

Jerry, why the double post? We've seen it already.

I posted it again in the hope that there might be one partial preterist who might answer it. While they are at it perhaps they will answer the following also:

“And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory….take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth” (Lk.21:27,34-35).

In His grace,--Jerry

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Parousia, quote.
“" This generation" is NOT the generation of evil men. THAT is a presupposition.” Unquote.

Now tell me this is not the Generation of the Christ.
Matt 1: 1The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. 2Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; 3And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram; 4And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon; 5And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse; 6And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias; 7And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa; 8And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias; 9And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias; 10And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias; 11And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon: 12And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel; 13And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor; Etc, Etc, Etc.

Deut 23: 1. A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
The Lord spoke of many a generation.
Matt 23: 35. That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Jerusalem killed the Prophets over many generations.
37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38. Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
This following verse is yet to occur and therefore the Lord, was speaking to the whole house of Israel by these word to those and future generation of the many a generation.

39. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
However that generation did not see a sign from Heaven.

Matt 12: 39. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Parousia, quote. “Preterists are NOT the ones reading into the Scriptures.” Unquote.

Yes they are.


Parousia, quote. Jesus clearly said, "THIS generation will by no means pass away till ALL these things take place.

Yes and nothing took place because He said NO SIGN WOULD BE GIVEN TO THAT GENERATION.
With the exception of the sign of Jonas, so Jesus must have meant all that generation of wicked until the time of His second advent.

Parousia, quote. “Again, ALL uses of that expression in the NT refer to those contemporaneous to the speaker or writer. It is forcing a foreign meaning to this expression by saying that it refers to all evil men!” Unquote.
That has been said before and you have been proven wrong by others and myself.

Parousia, quote. “That is obviously NOT the normal, common, everyday, usual usage of the expression. Unquote.

Yes it was in that case but you want to ram home and force read a second advent at the nonsensical date of 70AD, lOl.


Parousia, quote. “Futurists would NOT stumble over this except for this problem: taking it literally (something they pride themselves on) argues AGAINST their eschatology!” Unquote.

Futurist don’t stumble they crash at 70AD because they are without any biblical support.

Parousia, quote. “Furthermore, just because Jesus said He did not know the DAY nor the HOUR does NOT mean He did not know the TIME frame! Unquote.

O I see when Jesus, says the following you don’t agree with Him because you love a preterist fictional story more than His word, well that’s your choice of course and your right to reject the truth.
Mark 13: 32. But of that day and hour NO ONE KNOPWS, not even the angels in heaven, NOR THE SON, but ONLY THE FATHER. 33 “Take heed, watch and pray; for YOU DO NOT KNOW WHEN THE TIME IS.
NLT.
Mark 13: 32. “However, no one knows the day or hour WHEN THESE THINGS WILL HAPPEN, not even the angels in heaven OR THE SON HIMSELF. Only the Father knows.
But thy asked for a ‘heavenly sign’ and Jesus said none would be given.
Bible one Parousia, zero.

Parousia, quote.
“He "came" in AD 70--the day and the exact hour was not known until then.

No He did not return in 70AD, because he said no sign would be given to them.
However ONLY an indoctrinated preterist would say that ‘He did know the time and returned in 70AD’ without any Bible backup.
The historians name the general involved in that war as General Titus. IT WAS GENERAL TITUS and the ROMAN ARMY that took over Jerusalem not Jesus, Where in Jerusalem is He? Nowhere to be seen. As if we are stupid enough to believe that He came back and went away, leaving all this death and destruction if this were His kingdom. That idea stretches credulity to the point of absurdity and is a stultifyingly dim-witted notion at best.

Parousia, quote. “WE were not told to watch--Jesus' disciples there with Him THEN were told to watch.” Unquote.

O Yes we were told, told to watch for Jesus in fact Jesus said it ‘TO EVERYONE’ in Mark 13: 37. And what I say unto you I SAY UNTO ALL, WATCH.
All except those that asked for a sign and were not given any, Jesus said NO SIGN, so down crashes the 70AD theory. The Bible deals with untruths immediately.

Parousia, quote. “THEY were told to understand the parable of the fig tree--THEY were to know that His coming was near--even at the doors!” Unquote.

2 Peter 3; 9.
8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12. LOOLKING FOR THE HSTING UNTO THE COMING OF THE DAY OF GOD, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, LOOK FOR A NEW HEAVENS AND A NEW EARTH, WHEREIN DWELLETH RIGHTEOUSNESS
That was His promise and we are still of the flesh and mortal.
So 70AD is a theory a simple construct without one verse to back it up!
16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, BEWARE LEST YE ALSO, BEING LED AWAY WITH ERROR of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Parousia, quote. “Jesus said that those apostate, first-century, wicked, hypocritical, Jews of His day were to be judged and held accountable for ALL the righteous blood shed on the earth. Unquote.

Yes they will like all the other generation of murderers of the Prophets, on the day of JUDGMENT. Why do you think we have the same old heaven and Earth today?
2 Peter 3: 7. BUT THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH, which are NOW, by the same word ARE KEPT IN STORE, RESERVED UNTO FIRE AGAINST THE DAY OF JUDGMENT and PERDITION OF UNGODLY MEN.



Parousia, quote. “He was NOT speaking to a generation which included all evil men but to THOSE particular disobedient, adulterous, unbelieving Jews of His day! Unquote.

Yes He does in 2 Peter 3: 7.
And He said NO SIGN WOULD BE GIVEN TO THEM EXCEPT the sign of JONAS and that sign was given them, but NO OTHER SIGN as Jesus said, NOT me but Jesus, Himself word for word NO SIGN!
And you disagree with the words of Jesus!
By saying the contrary because some idiot told you that He supposedly gave a sign of His coming when He DID NOT!
Where are ALL THE ASSOCITED PROMISES of 1 Cor 15: 52 – 57? That was the promise and preterist try and take the promise away by that unwise idea of 70AD.

1 Cor 15: 52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

When we all see the above occur then we will know the TIME and preterists will have red faces and be ashamed.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Parousia, quote. “He said to THEM--"ALL these things will come upon THIS generation." He said it--NOT preterists.” Unquote.

They will see, along with the rest of us, in this wicked generation His return and we wait to see that occur within the soon eschatological period meaning the last or final things, so what are preterists doing here.

Parousia, quote. And yet futurists accuse them of not understanding plain language. Unquote.

Yes they do reject ‘preterist’ teaching, because as you have demonstrated her on this thread that you do not acknowledge the plain words of Jesus, Himself when He said NO SIGN and you say there ‘WAS A SIGN.’ That’s Preterist, zero and Jesus two.

Parousia, quote. “This is clearly a fulfillment of Daniel 9.Unquote.

No it is not a fulfilment of Daniel 9: Gabriel came in chapter 9: to explain the last vision of Daniel 8: and that vision is where the angel said ‘understand o son of man for the vision concerns the time of the end’. He turned up, recorded as chapter 9 and launched into the explanation of Daniel 8 by including the explanation of the seventy weeks which therefore concern the vision which is clearly placed at the time of the end as Gabriel said and the preterist say ‘no it was way back earlier in 70AD’ which is not ‘the time of the end’ which is within the 2300 ereb boqer ‘last end.’
That is why we say preterists are nowhere near the ball park.

Parousia, quot. “This is clearly the filling up of the measure of their guilt predicted by Daniel. "Assuredly, I say to you, ALL these things will come upon THIS generation."” Unquote.

And they will see Him return soon. And all that generation of wicked men Jews and Gentiles, will see the sign of the son of man in the heavens.



Parousia, quote. “Why do futurists insist of accusing preterists of the things for which they themselves are guilty?” Unquote.

You are guilty of stating that Jesus gave a sign when He said none would be given but preterists ‘have to be right’ so they think because they are so fearful that they might be wrong and they will have to throw the baby out with the bath water. So they just don’t see that NO SIGN WAS GIVEN in 70AD!

Parousia, quote. “Jesus told His disciples there with Him--"You will be killed." Why do futurists then say that it refers to US?

Daniel 12: 1. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
The above occurs with trumpet seven see 1 Cor 15: 52 – 53 at the last trump all are to be changed at the second coming and we are still in the flesh waiting so go take 70AD when General Titus and his Roman army took Jerusalem, for what it was and don’t make constructs out of it.

Parousia, quote. “Jesus told His disciples standing right there in front of Him--"When YOU see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet . . . ." How many abominations of desolation did Daniel see?” Unquote.

One yet to come in Daniel 12: 11. at the time when there is the promise of the blessing in Daniel 12: 12. which is given in Rev 19: 10. then we go to war to fight the remnant Lion, Bear, Leopard, notable powers, when the fourth beast with the mortal wound with the false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire.
I don’t remember anyone saying anything about that or that Satan, was released after the 1000 years. Let’s see, that would be in 1070AD…. No I don’t remember any talk about the city of God, coming down, or men being burned or a new Earth, where there is no sea being created after this place disappears. O dear we still have oceans where we are told the new Earth has none. Where then is the city of God? We still have graves woops o sting of death where are you? Still here!



Parousia, quote. “Jesus' disciples right there with Him THEN were to see the abomination of desolation and they DID! What don't futurists understand about simple words?” Unquote.

No they did not see that at all. Where was the beast with the mortal wound you know that person that gets thrown into the lake of fire and tell me where was the false prophet and who threw him into the lake of fire Titus? Pleas give it up and ask Jesus, for understanding.


Parousia, repeated quote. It is because the plain words do not fit futurism that a simple expression such as "this generation" is forced to mean the generation of evil men. Where is the biblical justification for that? Again, I emphasize the demonstrative pronoun THIS. Jesus said THIS clearly referring to the generation in which He then lived; the generation to whom He was then speaking about things that were to happen to those of that generation! What is the crime preterists commit by taking Jesus at His word? We are not the ones twisting the Scriptures to our own end.” Unquote.

And He said NO SIGN WOULD BE GIVEN TO THAT GENERATION in plain words.
He said that he did not know the time, only the Father knows. So Jesus could not mean within any time because He did not know at what time himself.
A seven year old could understand the simple fact of what Jesus said. Yet you wonder why ‘Futurists’ despair when a preterist says He did know the time and say He could have told them the time which He admits He did not know.
Preterists zero, Jesus three.

Parousia, quote. What did Jesus say? "YOU will be hated." "YOU will hear of wars and rumors of wars." "See that YOU are not troubled."

Yes WE may well be hated and killed when we refuse to bow down to the image of the beast, yet to be made when the real beast with the mortal wound turns up. See Rev 13: 15.

Parousia, quote. “Jesus said to Caiaphas right there with Him--"YOU will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power and COMING on the clouds of heaven." Who? Caiaphas--the chief priest of Jesus' day!” Unquote.

So Caiaphas, and those that pierced Him and all the others of the generation of Satan’s seed will see Him.
Matt 13: 29. But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
37. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; THE HARVEST IS THE END OF THE WORLD; and the reapers are the angels.
Now don’t you worry about Caiaphas Parousia, he will be taken care of at the RIGHT TIME at the ‘end of the world.’

Parousia, repeated quote “Jesus said: "Some of YOU standing HERE will not taste death till YOU see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Who would see Him before THEY died? Some of THOSE standing right there with Him THEN! What is the crime preterists commit by taking Jesus AT HIS WORD?” Unquote.

Jesus is the Resurrection the life. If He chooses to keep some of those alive standing there for the second coming that’s great.
Hebrews 11: 5. By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
I’m sure Jesus would and could easily do the same to others of His choosing.

Parousia. Quote. “Do futurists not see that it is not the plain words of Jesus that cause them difficulty but their incorrect concept of His coming! Because THEY cannot see His coming in the sense in which they understand it, they redefine simple words in order to make things FIT!” Unquote.

I understand without any difficulty at all about the second coming, just ask me about it and I will read you the Bible. The problem I have is with the preterist which claims to follow the word of Jesus, then denies the very words of Jesus. because He does not agree with their explanation of something that He said would not happen in their lifetime. NO SIGN TO THAT GENRATION! Are preterists reading the Koran?

Parousia, quote. “THIS generation will by no means pass away till ALL THESE THINGS take place."” Unquote.

And because He said no Sign when they asked him for a HEAVENLY sign means He did not speak of that generation otherwise He would have given them a sign at His return in the clouds which he said he would NOT DO to that generation in their time but He did not know the time of that event! Now live with it, He does not harmonize with preterists theories.

Parousia, quote. “Why do we not put our energy into attempting to discover the fulfillment of these things in the generation in which Jesus clearly placed them instead of clinging to a false concept and thereby being forced to do injustice to the sacred words of our Lord?” Unquote.


Why should I put my energy into an already disproved preterist theory based on a forced reading of what Jesus, supposedly did in 70AD when Jesus’ is not in accord with the preterist, within certain verses dealing with the same subject, they decide to pay no heed to Jesus, when He says things that do not fit their preconceived theories.
Thanks but no thanks, I would rather shake of the dust from that idea and place.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Pilgrim quote. “Paul taught that the OldCovenantTemple was a type which foreshadowed the NewCovenantTemple, which is the church, the body of Christ.
Paul also taught that the OldCovenantTemple and the Old Covenant sacrificial system was a temporary means of reconciliation which pointed to and was fulfilled by the coming and the work of Christ. ” Unquote.

No one is arguing that point so why bring it up? Not all sacrifices relate with or to the Passover crucifixion.
There were the ‘evening morning glory to His name offerings’ carried out in the outer court of the Temple. However Gentiles don’t understand that fact. The Bible. is a Jewish book not a Gentile one.
Pilgrim, quote. ”Paul further taught that the Old Covenant Temple and the Old Covenant sacrificial system, all being types and symbols which were fulfilled by the coming and work of Christ, were about to pass away.” Unquote.
I would appreciate a verse ID to back up your statements, thank you. This again refers to the Passover sacrifice of the lamb and the blood of it being daubed around the door posts. It started in Egypt and ended at Golgotha by the Lamb of God. No one is arguing that point at all, so why bring it up?

Pilgrim, quote. “The OldCovenantTemple and the Old Covenant sacrificial system all passed away in the 7-year war which occurred during the generation of the coming of Jesus Christ.
All of which proves that Jesus is the Christ.
That is what I believe.

Again no one is arguing that the Passover sacrifice of a lamb was not ended by the ‘Lamb of God’ on the preparation day called the Passover before the Sabbath of unleavened bread. No one is saying that the ritual of killing a lamb was not pointing to the Christ. So I do not understand your argument about things we mostly agree upon. However the seven years or 2300 ereb boqer is contained within Daniel 8:
In Daniel 8: 12 – 13. is Not about the sacrifice.
It is about the place of the Daily where the sacrifices takes place.

Jesus was not killed in the outer court of the Temple, it was at Golgothaas you know. There is the sacrifice that is not associated with the crucifixion.
It is called the evening and morning offering in honour of and the glory of His name which is performed in that outer court and is acceptable to God.
It is the Gentiles, that will carry it out!

See all Malachi 1: 1 – 11.
Malachi 1: 1. The burden of the word of the LORD TO ISRAEL by Malachi 1:1. Malachi 1: 6. And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you. 2. If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, TO GIVE GLORY unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart.
Malachi 1: 8. And if ye OFFER THE BLIND FOR SACRIFICE, is it not evil? and if ye offer the lame and sick, is it not evil? offer it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the LORD of hosts.

Malachi 1: 11. For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same MY NAME shall be GREAT AMONG THE GENTILES; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, AND A PURE OFFERRING: FOR MY NAME shall be great among THE HEATHEN, saith the LORD of hosts.
Malachi 2: 1. And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you. 2. If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto MY NAME, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart.

It is within Daniel 8: in verse 16 that Gabriel, is told to make Daniel understand the vision. Then in verse 18 he tells Daniel 8: Understand, O son of man: FOR AT THE TIME OF THE END shall be THE VISION. The context is about the end and we are still flesh which cannot inherit the kingdom of God. See 1 Cor 15: 50. So we are NOT in the kingdom of God! Not quite yet.
Matt 24: 3. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be THE SIGN OF THY COMING, and of THE END of the world? And in that same TIME mode/context, we are told of the abomination of desolation in verse 15.
The vision of Daniel 8 concerns the ‘last end’ as told not only in verse 17 but also in verse 19. “And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the LAST END OF THE indignation: for at THE TIME APPOINTED THE END shall be.”
In Daniel 8: 27 Daniel said ‘I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.’ In Daniel 9: he studied Jeremiah and knew the seventy years of captivity were nearly finished and pleads for his people until verse 20. Where the Angel Gabriel, turned up to give Daniel understanding of the vision that concerns the time of the end, of chapter 8 the one that he said he did not understand in Daniel 8: 27. “I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.”
In Daniel 9: 22 “And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding”
It is in verse 23 that the angel states ‘for thou art greatly beloved: therefore UNDERSTAND THE MATTER, AND CONSIDER THE VISION.
What Vision? The one in Daniel 8 concerning ‘the time of the end’ that Daniel, did not understand.
Then in verse 24 the seventy weeks are mentioned to help Daniel, understand the vision concerned with ‘the time of the end’ and the time of the end vision is found in Daniel 8 so the ‘historic application of Alexander being the ‘rough goat’ can be argued against using the proper translation of the word ‘Yavan.
Because the seventy weeks are used to explain the vision of Daniel 8: which concerns the time of the end, means that those weeks are firmly placed at the same ‘time of the end. ’

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

The abomination of desolation is also placed AT THE TIME OF THE END because OF THE CONTEXT of the question in verse 3. “And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, WHEN shall these things be? and what shall be THE SIGN OF THY COMING, AND OF THE END OF THE WORLD?”

Mark 13; 14. “But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:”

The word sacrifice is not in Daniel 8: it was added by the translators that is why it is in italics. It is about THE PLACE OF THE DAILY BEING TAKEN AWAY, THE OUTER COURT that will be trodden down AT THE TIME OF THE END. Rev 11: 2.

Daniel 8: 11.Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily was taken away, AND THE PLACE OF HIS SANCTUARY was cast down.

12. And an host was given him AGAINST THE DAILY by reason of TRANSGRETION, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. 13. Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, HOW LONG shall be the vision concerning THE DAILY, and the TRANSGRETION OF DESOLATION, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14. And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. 2300 ereb boqer.

15. And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.

16. And I heard a man’s voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

17. So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, UNDERSTAND, O SON OF MAN: FOR AT THE TIME OF THE END shall be THE VISION.

Daniel 11: 31. And arms shall stand on his part, and THEY SHALL POLLUTE THE SANCTUARY of strength, and SHALL TAKE AWAY THE DAILY, and THEY SHALL PLACE THE ABOMINATION OF that maketh desolate. Dan 11: 35. And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to THE TIME OF THE END:

The question Was in Matt 24: Mark13: Luke 21: And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the SIGN OF THY COMING, AND END OF THE WORLD?

In that context Jesus, mentions the abomination of desolation. Daniels last vision was recorded as Daniel 10: 11: and chapter 12 in one hit and woven in that last vision is ‘time of the end’ events.

Rev 11: 1. And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2. But THE COURT WHICH IS WITHOUT THE TEMPLE LEAVE OUT, and measure it not; for IT IS GIVEN OVER TO THE GENTILES: and the holy city shall they TREAD UNDER FOOT FORTY TWO MONTHS. The forty two months will finish when the two witnesses are killed after they witness for 1260 Days plus 3 ½ days within THE SAME LAST WEEK of Daniel 9: 27. In Revelation verse 7 they lay dead for 3 ½ days until they are raised at trumpet seven verse 15 of that last week where the following will occur.

Daniel 9: 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to FINISH THE TRANSGRESSION, and to make an END OF SINS, and to make RECONCILIATION FOR INIQUITY, and to bring in EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS, and to SEAL UP THE VISION AND PROPHECY, and TO ANOINT THE MOST HOLY.

Knowing that the book of Daniel, would be sealed from understanding until the time of the end it would make NO logical sense to those alive in 70AD or before the time of the end period of 2300 ereb boqer.

Pilgrim, quote. “Satan does not and never will have the ability to incarnate himself. Only God has the power to create flesh and give it life.
I have no idea of what you are speaking of, when you say ‘creating flesh,’ you did not get that idea from me. This is what the Bible, says Satan will do. 2 Cor 11: 13. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14. And no marvel; for SATAN HIMSELF IS TRANSFORMED into an ANGEL OF LIGHT . 15. Therefore it is no great thing if his MINISTERS also be TRANSFORMED AS MINISTERS OF RIGHTEOUSNES; whose end shall be according to their works.

Pilgrim. Quote. “Jesus said that Satan was cast out when he was lifted up on the Cross.” Unquote.

Not true. Show me the verse. Jesus said no such thing! That is a construct.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Pilgrim, quote. “Indeed, isn’t that the very message of the Gospel? Unquote.

The Gospel is not based on an application that you mistakenly attach to Jesus, when He never said such a thing. Jesus NEVER said that ‘Satan, was cast out at His crucifixion.’ You assume that because you are lead by a 70AD fictional advent.

Pilgrim, quote. “That by his death and resurrection Jesus once-for-all-forever overcame sin and death?” Unquote.

Jesus overcame, did you or or I?
No we have not overcome sin or death so the victory has not yet arrived for us which is linked with His second coming.

Pilgrim, quote. “The death and resurrection of Jesus was the defeat and downfall of Satan.” Unquote.

Not quite yet, Satan has to lose this kingdom and death still reigns along with sin so that has not yet turned to victory for us.

Pilgrim, quote. This is the Gospel, and this is what I believe. Unquote.

That was not the Gospel it is how YOU personally see the Gospel. You are way off from the Gospel’s timing.

Pilgrim, quote. “My friend, the war in heaven has already been fought.” Unquote.

No it has not been fought yet. Satan is to be cast out of Heaven down to Earth when he loses the war in heaven and I don’t see Satan manifest as ‘the angel of light’ yet and neither do you. You should read Rev 12 with an open mind but alas I feel that, that is impossible for a preterist.


Pilgrim, quote. “The victory is won. Jesus Christ is Lord. Have you not heard? This is the Gospel, and this is what I believe.” Unquote.

The Lamb has to be found worthy to take back the kingdoms of Earth and I don’t see Him yet coming in the clouds in great glory, power, with the Father.
Do you? I do not see His kingdom here where death abounds which is supposed to be done away with at His second coming, so that is a clear indication that He did not return in 70AD because death and sin still prevail on this old Earth!

Pilgrim, quote. “It is not the understanding of prophecy that guards the believer from false doctrine, it is the understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.” Unquote.

Prophecy is the testimony of Jesus. However false prophecy harms God’s work and His word and is of the devil
You missed the point completely, about why we should understand the testimony of Jesus in prophecy.
This was my point, that we are no good to God, or ourselves or anyone else for that matter if we spread the indoctrination of men.

We need the latter rain of the Holy Spirit for power.
However, we need to understand His truth within His word and be wise in His doctrine of truth, it will be impossible to achieve, this work otherwise.

His people are to spread the three angels message of His soon coming kingdom in these times of the end.
2 Tim 2: 15. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
The reason we work and study is to save lives out of love for our neighbour’s sake and for Him.
Dan 12: 3. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that TURN MANY TO righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Pilgrim, quote. “And if we don’t get that right, nothing else will matter.
Then allow me to share the good news of the Gospel, my friend. That old liar the devil has already been defeated and cast down from heaven.” Unquote.

No Satan has not been defeated, not just yet . Look around you open your eyes. Do you see DEATH, WARS, SUFFERING, HUNGER, PEOPLE BLASPHEMING GOD! I do and that was to be done away with in His kingdom but not in Satan’s so which one are we residing in?

When I see Jesus coming in the clouds in these following verses then I will know that Satan’s realm has ended.
1 Cor 15: 51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.


Pilgrim, quote. “Never again will he be able to come before God and accuse the brethren, for the Great Mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ, by whose death the dragon was overcome, now stands before the Father to make intercession for the church.” Unquote.

The Dragon has not been overcome until he is placed in the pit for a thousand years, then destroyed with his seed and yes. Satan’s seed are all around us today, so this is not yet God's kingdom.

Pilgrim, quote. “The victory is already won, Jesus Christ reigns, and at the name of Jesus the gates of hell crumble, darkness flees and every foul spirit bows in mute subjection.” Unquote.

Already won? I think you should re read I Cor 15: 52 – 58.
That makes it clear as to when Jesus, reigns. Victory is not won until we can say all the things in 1 Cor 15: 52 – 58.


Pilgrim, quote. “This is the Gospel, this is the victory of our Savior, this is the power of our Lord, and this is what I believe.
“Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the Only Wise God our Savior be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and forever. Amen.”

All hail the power of Jesus,
Pilgrimer

What dominion is this, with Death all around?
Jesus said in His kingdom we would not go hungry? Have you seen the news about drought and hunger?
This lousy place of death and destruction where the environment is falling apart is not His kingdom.
What exceeding joy do you speak of?
Is this joy about the tears of mothers seeing their sons and daughters die in wars and disease?
What power does Jesus have to stop it when I know He has not been found worthy to stop it!

Do you think that if he was given back His power that He would not use it to stop this going on?
We have to go through the tribulation yet and then, we will find out what real hardship is all about.

If the Lord had His power, He would be here now sorting this mess out. I still see graves being filled and the bodies of my family are still in them.
What the preterist does not see in the Middle East is the pages of Daniel 8: slowly turning now. Why don’t you tell us about Daniel 8: and afterwards I will do the same.

Then we will see that we only have a very short time left when America/UK attack Iran quickly and decisively then we will be right within the 2300 ereb boqer.

Yet when all these many, many clear signs are put before the preterist, concerning the lion with eagle’s wings and the bear and leopard and the rough goat that will attack the ram in Iran, with those two horns called Iraq and Iran, where the higher horn Iran, will soon come up pushing, they the preterist, will be like the Jews and will not see these as signs of His soon coming until He appears in the clouds with power and great glory.

The Jews were proud and thought that they were right? The preterist thinks he is right too and they are bent on an historic view that is flawed biblically. So why do they come here on this place called Eschatology, dealing with things to come the ending, the final things if they claim erroneously that Jesus came in 70AD? That idea breaks the rules on this forum.

 

[NumberOneSon]

The Jews were proud and thought that they were right? The preterist thinks he is right too and they are bent on an historic view that is flawed biblically.

Ok, and the futurist thinks he's right. And the historicist thinks he's right. And the Idealist thinks he's right. Everybody thinks their own eschatological view is right - even you think your End Times position is right. Accusations of "pride" and likening us to the apostate Jews who rejected Christ is ridiculous, PC, and just plain wrong.

So why do they come here on this place called Eschatology, dealing with things to come the ending, the final things if they claim erroneously that Jesus came in 70AD?

Because preterism is an eschatological position. And Orthodox preterists believe Jesus will come again. Simple. Just so you are aware, this board isn't called the Futurism forum; it's called the Eschatology forum, so any eschatalogical view that agrees with the creeds is allowed here, and Orthodox preterism is an eschatological position that agrees with the creeds. I hope that answers your question.

That idea breaks the rules on this forum.

No, full-preterism breaks the rules on this forum. Orthodox preterism does not. And accusing other people of breaking the rules is a rule violation in and of itself. Read the FAQ, and check your eye for a splinter that may be logged in there.

In Christ,

Acts6:5