Part 2 - The Creator has Invalidated Knowing Earth's Age Through Scientific Enquiry

[TLK Valentine]

. Question for you TK. What historical evidence exists of men prior to 4004 BC? Not talking about bones here. Names of any persons? Any biographies out there?

Just so we're clear before I answer: you will accept a name as proof of existence, but you won't accept remains?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Just so we're clear before I answer: you will accept a name as proof of existence, but you won't accept remains?

Cool, to be clear,
there are no remains for anyone who did not exist .

 

[TLK Valentine]

Cool, to be clear,
there are no remains for anyone who did not exist .

... but plenty of names.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

... but plenty of names.

Good! All verifying always, God's Word, Life, and Truth.

(except names if made up for some fleshy reason)

 

[TLK Valentine]

Good! All verifying always, God's Word, Life, and Truth.

(except names if made up for some fleshy reason)

But that's just it; I can give you plenty of names -- Darth Vader, Mickey Mouse, Holden Caufield, Romeo Montague, Juliet Capulet, Ziggy Stardust... names are easy, but they prove nothing.

Remains are a little more concrete... or stone, if fossilized.

Which would you rely on more?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE="TLK Valentine, post: 71881994, member: 306134"]But that's just it; I can give you plenty of names -- Darth Vader, Mickey Mouse, Holden Caufield, Romeo Montague, Juliet Capulet, Ziggy Stardust... names are easy, but they prove nothing.

Remains are a little more concrete... or stone, if fossilized.

Which would you rely on more?[/QUOTE
===============================
Neither one, at all. That would usually, that does usually, lead to death and destruction and evil.


Rely on YHWH only, trust Him for Life, and health and truth. No one who Trusts in Him is ever disappointed.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Neither one, at all. That would usually, that does usually, lead to death and destruction and evil.


Rely on YHWH only, trust Him for Life, and health and truth. No one who Trusts in Him is ever disappointed.

Then let YHWH tell you the age of the Earth, and stop relying on James Ussher.

 

[2tim_215]

Just so we're clear before I answer: you will accept a name as proof of existence, but you won't accept remains?

I want some real history which should include some real people. So you don't have any? Wonder why? I guess you can name a few chimps like Gonzo? I'm not looking names given to bones by Geologists/Scientists. I'm looking for real people. Guess there isn't any. You answered my question.

 

[2tim_215]

This should excite a few people over here:
First-seen neutron star collision creates light, gravitational waves and gold - CNN
Keep in mind however (before you get too excited) that this may just be the way that God designed it. And those billions of years mentioned could have taken place long before man (as we know it today) even existed. Still interesting, nonetheless. And keep in mind, being this is a new discovery, give it some time to sink in before adopting it completely. I'm sure they'll be a number of questions regarding it's total validity.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Correct -- meanwhile, we are alive today, and we've used the information he didn't have to move well beyond him... well, most of us have.

What arrogance to say you have moved beyond the good Bishop when you have not even come close to catching up with him and where he was at in his understanding of the Bible.

This is how Usher begins his book with a quote: "The world's history is a divine poem of which the history of every nation is a canto and every man is a word". If you do not understand this first sentence then nothing in his book is going to make sense to you. Our roll is to be a: "humble listener" of the "Divine Melody running through the song". A melody that you admit that you do not hear.

The Annals of the World

 

[Obliquinaut]

. Question for you TK. What historical evidence exists of men prior to 4004 BC? Not talking about bones here. Names of any persons? Any biographies out there?

We have handprints from people 30,000 years ago, does that count? Obviously they didn't have a written language.

According to a 5000 year old clay tablet, however, the first person to be recorded by history appears to be an "accountant" in Mesopotamia named(?) Kushim. There's also a "Gal Sal" who was a slave owner whose name was recorded similarly about 3000 years before Christ (~5000 years ago)

http://phenomena.nationalgeographic...e-first-person-in-history-whose-name-we-know/

 

[2tim_215]

We have handprints from people 30,000 years ago, does that count? Obviously they didn't have a written language.

OK. So what was it? And just one in around 25K years? And no actual writing yet, just hand-prints. Fascinating, but what does this prove? hard to prove it was civilized man.

According to a 5000 year old clay tablet, however, the first person to be recorded by history appears to be an "accountant" in Mesopotamia named(?) Kushim. There's also a "Gal Sal" who was a slave owner whose name was recorded similarly about 3000 years before Christ (~5000 years ago)
6K compared to Usshers 4K. Only a 1K difference and that would put him right in there with what most people think that civilized (or modern day) man existed and first started to write back in Mesopotamia.

So the answer I'd say, is no as far as this debate goes but still kind of interesting.

http://phenomena.nationalgeographic...e-first-person-in-history-whose-name-we-know/[/QUOTE]

 

[joshua 1 9]

We have handprints from people 30,000 years ago, does that count? Obviously they didn't have a written language.

We have artifacts from around 45,000 years ago. They had sowing needles made from bone, they had fishing hooks and fishing nets. This provided them with clothing and with fish to eat so they were able to come up out of africa and move to a bio diverse eco system that was colder.

We have written language before Moses, even there was a law 1,000 years before Moses. But recorded history began with Adam and Eve 6,000 years ago.

 

[Obliquinaut]

OK. So what was it? And just one in around 25K years? And no actual writing yet, just hand-prints. Fascinating, but what does this prove? hard to prove it was civilized man.

It proves there were humans around >5000 years ago.

So the answer I'd say, is no as far as this debate goes but still kind of interesting.

What debate???? WE KNOW there were people around >5000 years ago.

 

[Obliquinaut]

We have artifacts from around 45,000 years ago. They had sowing needles made from bone, they had fishing hooks and fishing nets. This provided them with clothing and with fish to eat so they were able to come up out of africa and move to a bio diverse eco system that was colder.

We have written language before Moses, even there was a law 1,000 years before Moses. But recorded history began with Adam and Eve 6,000 years ago.

But according to the BIble Adam was the first man. What were the people who made Gobekli Tepe which dates back 12,000 years ago? What were the Mesopotamians who date back about 7000 years ago?

 

[2tim_215]

You sure they were human people? What kind of people? And only one found so far? Between 6000 BC and 19500-395000 BC? Is that considered science? Not repeatable? Ussher goes back 6000 years so we know that there were people 5000 and we also know that they were humans. Too bad we can't measure their DNA. It's funny how it's so sketchy when it comes to when it's said that civilized man began to write. I know. They must have been extraterrestrials.

 

[2tim_215]

OK. So what was it? And just one in around 25K years? And no actual writing yet, just hand-prints. Fascinating, but what does this prove? hard to prove it was civilized man.

According to a 5000 year old clay tablet, however, the first person to be recorded by history appears to be an "accountant" in Mesopotamia named(?) Kushim. There's also a "Gal Sal" who was a slave owner whose name was recorded similarly about 3000 years before Christ (~5000 years ago)
6K compared to Usshers 4K. Only a 1K difference and that would put him right in there with what most people think that civilized (or modern day) man existed and first started to write back in Mesopotamia.

So the answer I'd say, is no as far as this debate goes but still kind of interesting.

http://phenomena.nationalgeographic...e-first-person-in-history-whose-name-we-know/

Looks like my math was off a bit. What's the significance of Gal-Sal? He fits right in with Usshers calculations. 5000 years also would fit right in Usshers claims which totals 6000 years.

 

[2tim_215]

The Uniformity Problem​

The Uniformity Problem
"Another study which even more strikingly reveals genetic uniformity among humans is found in Proc. Nat. Acad. Sci. vol. 93 Number 09 pp. 4360-4364 (1996), in which a 55 kilobase sequence of the human genome was examined and found to be identical in most individuals, with only a single nucleotide difference observed. The authors interpret this as evidence for a recent single origin for modern humans. Why the genetic diversity of this region should be less than one in 50,000 (actually, less than one in 100,000) and elsewhere about one in 2,000 is not clear. But this could indicate that the human race is much younger than biologists have assumed. For example, if one assumes a mutation rate of 2 x 10-8 per base pair per generation, which seems to be a popular figure among biologists (Science, 6 January 1995, pp. 35-36, for example), and a generation time of 20 years, then a diversity of one in 100,000 would be produced in 5000 years, assuming the ALU region is essentially neutral."
Don't know if this holds water or not, but found this to be quite interesting.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I want some real history which should include some real people.

And if they have names and stories attached to them (biographies), you'll accept them, but if they have actual remains, you won't? I just want to know what color the snipe is before we start hunting.

So you don't have any? Wonder why? I guess you can name a few chimps like Gonzo? I'm not looking names given to bones by Geologists/Scientists. I'm looking for real people. Guess there isn't any. You answered my question.

You think real people don't have bones?

 

[TLK Valentine]

What arrogance to say you have moved beyond the good Bishop when you have not even come close to catching up with him and where he was at in his understanding of the Bible.

We're not talking about the Bible, we're talking about the age of the Earth. Ussher stopped at 6,000 years; we have literally and figuratively long since moved beyond him.