Parable of The Boiled Frog ...

[Frogster]

Hi,
Examine yourself to see if you're in the faith. What does it mean? There's a few areas, but all central to the saviours ministry at Calvary. Obedience to the faith is not a set of rules. Paul covers clearly the subject in Romans. In the faith (when Christ cried its finished, do I really believe it, do I really believe Christ has made me righteous, do I really believe there's no condemnation in Christ Jesus) Because if I really believe this my flesh will have a party. I must be confident of these truths to walk in the Spirit. Because the works of the flesh follow those who are ignorant, or willfully reject those truths.

Grace to you.

And also, they were bing deceived in Corinth, to leave grace, hence the faith.
It is good to see just what the biblical deception of frog boiling was.

 

[gideons300]

You are the king of adding on to what people say. You are the king pot stirrer. The king of the AND/OR (see red above for three examples and the black bold in your questions) ect.

There is no question when each question has 4 or 5 possible scenarios. You setup your posts to not have a concise answer. I'm bored with it. Irritated with the lies and bored with the reading.

Sister, I empathise with your angst, and if I am stirring the pot, it is so the soup does not get burned.

But, I ask nicely, please, no personal attacks. That is not why we are discussing here. It is whether our beliefs are true and scriptural or if they can be disproved. Keep it civil. We can disagree in love.

On the three questions above that I listed, I really see them as bottom line questions with either a yes or a no answer. It will prevent all the misunderstandings and deflections. If any ask questions about what i believe grace is and what grace isn't, I will try my best to be open and honest in my answers to provide balanced scriptural reasons for my conclusions. Is it not fair that they do the same? It is because people might fear what really is being said. It is not that the proponents of such grace will err themselves, but it is a door left wide open for satan to exploit.... and he will.

Blessings, sister,

Gideon

 

[turned around]

Hi Gideon,
Its interesting god told you do something since the cross he doesn't. Hebrews 8 " I'll be merciful to their unrighteoness, and their sins and iniquities I,all remember no more".

Grace to you.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Sister, I empathise with your angst, and if I am stirring the pot, it is so the soup does not get burned.

But, I ask nicely, please, no personal attacks. That is not why we are discussing here. It is whether our beliefs are true and scriptural or if they can be disproved. Keep it civil. We can disagree in love.

On the three questions above that I listed, I really see them as bottom line questions with either a yes or a no answer. It will prevent all the misunderstandings and deflections. If any ask questions about what i believe grace is and what grace isn't, I will try my best to be open and honest in my answers to provide balanced scriptural reasons for my conclusions. Is it not fair that they do the same? It is because people might fear what really is being said. It is not that the proponents of such grace will err themselves, but it is a door left wide open for satan to exploit.... and he will.

Blessings, sister,

Gideon

Exactly why I won't be responding to you personally anymore.

~ peace

 

[Frogster]

Sister, I empathise with your angst, and if I am stirring the pot, it is so the soup does not get burned.

But, I ask nicely, please, no personal attacks. That is not why we are discussing here. It is whether our beliefs are true and scriptural or if they can be disproved. Keep it civil. We can disagree in love.

On the three questions above that I listed, I really see them as bottom line questions with either a yes or a no answer. It will prevent all the misunderstandings and deflections. If any ask questions about what i believe grace is and what grace isn't, I will try my best to be open and honest in my answers to provide balanced scriptural reasons for my conclusions. Is it not fair that they do the same? It is because people might fear what really is being said. It is not that the proponents of such grace will err themselves, but it is a door left wide open for satan to exploit.... and he will.

Blessings, sister,

Gideon

lime above, a frog color, my skin!

I proved that the devil deceives, and I posted scripture to prove it.

The deception was legalism!

I posted text, and I am on topic.

 

[Frogster]

Hi Gideon,
Its interesting god told you do something since the cross he doesn't. Hebrews 8 " I'll be merciful to their unrighteoness, and their sins and iniquities I,all remember no more".

Grace to you.

You go bro! good point!

 

[Gregory Thompson]

the parable of the boiled frog .. i recall it was a saying of David Suzuki (Canadian Environmental Scientist) at one point

very relevant today . thanks .

 

[mourningdove~]

The Parable of The Boiled Frog​

“If you place a frog in a pot of boiling water, it will immediately try to scramble out. But if you place the frog in room temperature water, and don’t scare him, he’ll stay put.

Now, if the pot sits on a heat source, and if you gradually turn up the temperature, something very interesting happens. As the temperature rises, the frog will do nothing. In fact, he may show every sign of enjoying himself.

As the temperature gradually increases, the frog will become groggier and groggier, until he is unable to climb out of the pot. Though there is nothing restraining him, the frog will sit there and boil.

Why? Because the frog’s internal apparatus for sensing threats to survival is geared to sudden changes in the environment, not to slow, gradual changes.”



I think we can look at this parable and apply it to how we as Christians can become deceived.

I don't think many, if any, of us wake up one morning and make the decision to become deceived.

I don't think many of us as Christians decide one day to start fellowshipping in Hindu temples, or Muslim Mosques, or the like ... as they are not Christian in belief.

Nor do I think many of us Christians, after salvation, decide to join a street gang so as to live the wild life.

Lots of us choose after salvation to not even go into sinful places ... like brothels, porn shops, x-rated movies, drug houses, bars ... well, you get my drift!

Generally, as followers of Jesus we will want to go places, do things, fellowship, in ways that are conducive to growing in our faith. It's just a natural kind of supernatural thing that happens after conversion!

So no, I doubt many of us seek to be deceived.

But deception does happen.

As spiritually-minded persons,
I think one only needs look at the world around us to see that deception does happen.

I think then a next question might be:​

What are some of the symptoms of a spiritually deceived person?​

Listed here are some of them:

1. Spiritual elitism. This is the root of many delusions.
Any kind of elitist belief is a certain indication of deception. Elitism is the belief that God has given a certain individual or group special revelation that other Christians have not entered into.

2. A tendency to marginalize the written Word.
Marginalizing the written Word can take many forms:

a) Ignoring the Word. Neglecting private Bible study in daily life is a strong symptom of deception.

b) Disregarding the Word. Holding a careless attitude towards obedience. Any teaching that plays down our requirement to be doers of the Word is a sure sign of delusion.

c) “Fools despise knowledge.” Any kind of talk that does not give the Word the high regard it is due effectively marginalizes the Word and is a sure sign that deception is at work.

3. Prayerlessness in private.
Neglect of private prayer time, alone with God, is a strong indication of deception. Deceived people will often continue to attend and even enjoy public church functions and gatherings – but a private quiet time has lost its appeal to them.

4. Disdain for Berean-spirited searching of the scriptures.
Any kind of anti-Berean, anti-discernment teaching that discourages people from questioning what is going on or being taught is a sure sign of deception.

5. An inability to separate Godly criticism of their words from personal attack.
The deceived tend to equate "Berean" activity (Acts 17:11) with criticism.

6. Lack of accountability.
The deceived do not like to be held accountable to anyone.

7. Detractors are dismissed as having inferior vision.
The deceived see themselves as being "in tune" with God. Detractors (those not in spiritual agreement with the deceived) are perceived as not "in tune" with God and having inferior vision. The deceived will dismiss any criticism of their teaching or conduct as bitterness, jealousy or fault finding, while they themselves feel they have very sharp spiritual perception.

8. A dismissive attitude towards detractors.
The deceived will give detractors derogatory labels, such as "religious", "old order", "old wineskins", "legalists", or "Pharisees". Detractors are labeled "accusers of the brethren", that sort of thing. Threats of God’s judgment on detractors and critics are a sure sign of delusion.

9. An excited interest in peripheral subjects not central to the gospel, with a de-emphasis on the central themes of the gospel.
The deceived claim to agree with the gospel, but the bulk of their teachings show a greater interest in peripheral topics.

10. Manipulation and control.
The deceived leader loves to surround himself with minions who affirm his message.

11. Selfishness.
The deceived show more interest in promoting themselves and their message than in reaching the lost with the good news of Jesus Christ.

12. Pride.
Deceived persons can fall prey to false spirits. False spirits love to show off, take "center stage". They love to parade "up front" for others to see.

13. Divisiveness.
The deceived may "talk" unity, but bring division along lines of gender, age, race or nationality, etc. They have a tendency to distinguish between people who accept their message and those who do not. The deceived persons behave divisively within the Body of Christ, often creating disorder and chaos wherever they go ... however God is not a god of confusion or disorder, but of peace. (1 Cor. 14:33)

 

[Gregory Thompson]

i have another set of criteria based on what those beliefs do . but telling people really into the bible that their practice is/may be demonizing them .. usually isn't taken well .

love is the main thing .

anything that is not of faith is sin .

and remember anything written is summed up by the brief saying .. love does not harm their neighbour .

 

[lismore]

And also, they were bing deceived in Corinth, to leave grace, hence the faith.
It is good to see just what the biblical deception of frog boiling was.

To the church in Corinth Paul advised the brethern no to associate with anyone who claimed to be a Christian but was immoral saying:

“Expel the wicked person from among you.”

Is that graceful?

 

[gideons300]

Hi Gideon,
Its interesting god told you do something since the cross he doesn't. Hebrews 8 " I'll be merciful to their unrighteoness, and their sins and iniquities I,all remember no more".

Grace to you.

We must guard against taking one scripture and make a doctrine of such importance out of it. We have to take the entire word, even the parts we don't like and if it leads to a different conclusion to what we once believed, we can either change and be blessed or not change and walk in error... and potential danger

Here is a little example of other words from the same writer in the same book:

"For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."

Hebrews 10

Same exact writer, two chapters down. Some will attempt to change what he clearly said, that is for OUR edification and gut it of its warning to us, but the sheep WILL hear.

Here is another:

Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

What is happening is that we are closing our ears and eyes....and hearts, to the call of the Spirit to "be ye holy , for I am holy". We love positional holiness and a grace that requires no love response of hating our own life, but Jesus is clear. We must lose our life to find His. Self has to step down and let Christ rule over us, with us his joy-filled, willing bond servants. Many do not want to be told what to do, and that is the part that must die. The ultimate sacrifice unto the Lord is offering up our free will unto the Lord, saying, like Paul did, "What would you have me do, Lord?" That is the pkace of security, for Jesus is to that man both savior and Lord.

Five snipped verses from various texts cannot be woven into a doctrine that is clearly contradicted by other scriptures. I can list twenty that tell us to be vigilant, give diligence to make our calling and election sure, and that it is he that endures to the end who will be saved.

Since I am not getting an answer from the others, perhaps you could give me a clear answer. In light of what we have just read, if a man falls into adultery, does not repent, is chastened by the Spirit and refuses to turn back, and then dies, will he go to heaven?

If any believe what is being presented, you must admit that this scenario is not at all far-fetched and is going to come up a multitude of times, involving all sorts of sins. If these are so sure that this is what the word of God teaches, it seems someone would be bold enough to say "You bet I do. God will welcome him home with open arms and an 'Enter into the joy of the Lord. That is the power of the grace of God".of the Lord'

Blessings, Gideon

 

[Gregory Thompson]

the parable of the boiled frog ... anything that does not come from faith is sin .. also applies to bible interpretations . and bible applications .

if the supernatural basics are not evident in the foundation . then their words have no power .

 

[Gregory Thompson]

love does not harm their neighbour ... and the boiled frog ..

I say this in love .. now do what i say or you're the worst person ever .

the frog church has been boiled this way over a number of generations .. it doesn't even know what its doing wrong .

 

[ToBeBlessed]

I wonder if pharisees boil frogs? Seems to me that pharisees boil frogs. Got kosher?

 

[Frogster]

As spiritually-minded persons,
I think one only needs look at the world around us to see that deception does happen.

I think then a next question might be:​

What are some of the symptoms of a spiritually deceived person?​

Listed here are some of them:

1. Spiritual elitism. This is the root of many delusions.
Any kind of elitist belief is a certain indication of deception. Elitism is the belief that God has given a certain individual or group special revelation that other Christians have not entered into.

2. A tendency to marginalize the written Word.
Marginalizing the written Word can take many forms:

a) Ignoring the Word. Neglecting private Bible study in daily life is a strong symptom of deception.

b) Disregarding the Word. Holding a careless attitude towards obedience. Any teaching that plays down our requirement to be doers of the Word is a sure sign of delusion.

c) “Fools despise knowledge.” Any kind of talk that does not give the Word the high regard it is due effectively marginalizes the Word and is a sure sign that deception is at work.

3. Prayerlessness in private.
Neglect of private prayer time, alone with God, is a strong indication of deception. Deceived people will often continue to attend and even enjoy public church functions and gatherings – but a private quiet time has lost its appeal to them.

4. Disdain for Berean-spirited searching of the scriptures.
Any kind of anti-Berean, anti-discernment teaching that discourages people from questioning what is going on or being taught is a sure sign of deception.

5. An inability to separate Godly criticism of their words from personal attack.
The deceived tend to equate "Berean" activity (Acts 17:11) with criticism.

6. Lack of accountability.
The deceived do not like to be held accountable to anyone.

7. Detractors are dismissed as having inferior vision.
The deceived see themselves as being "in tune" with God. Detractors (those not in spiritual agreement with the deceived) are perceived as not "in tune" with God and having inferior vision. The deceived will dismiss any criticism of their teaching or conduct as bitterness, jealousy or fault finding, while they themselves feel they have very sharp spiritual perception.

8. A dismissive attitude towards detractors.
The deceived will give detractors derogatory labels, such as "religious", "old order", "old wineskins", "legalists", or "Pharisees". Detractors are labeled "accusers of the brethren", that sort of thing. Threats of God’s judgment on detractors and critics are a sure sign of delusion.

9. An excited interest in peripheral subjects not central to the gospel, with a de-emphasis on the central themes of the gospel.
The deceived claim to agree with the gospel, but the bulk of their teachings show a greater interest in peripheral topics.

10. Manipulation and control.
The deceived leader loves to surround himself with minions who affirm his message.

11. Selfishness.
The deceived show more interest in promoting themselves and their message than in reaching the lost with the good news of Jesus Christ.

12. Pride.
Deceived persons can fall prey to false spirits. False spirits love to show off, take "center stage". They love to parade "up front" for others to see.

13. Divisiveness.
The deceived may "talk" unity, but bring division along lines of gender, age, race or nationality, etc. They have a tendency to distinguish between people who accept their message and those who do not. The deceived persons behave divisively within the Body of Christ, often creating disorder and chaos wherever they go ... however God is not a god of confusion or disorder, but of peace. (1 Cor. 14:33)

Acctually some of these descriptions are about the deceivers, who use trickery to steer the church in the wrong way. That proves my point, about the frog boilers. They always come, and try to take down the gospel of grace Paul taught. I think it is good, that we have an hitorical definition shown here, as to just what the deceivers in Paul's mind did, the Biblical definition is established.


Col 2:4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.


2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits[a] of the world, and not according to Christ.


4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.


Again, stay in the gospel in verse 23 below, and that was grace, said in chpater 1.


Col 1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:




1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;



Alrighty now, we see it again, the devil's philosphy was to slowly boil the church, deceiving the church, by making them leave grace.


Thanks, fun thread, and interesting, frog.

 

[Frogster]

The deceivers of 2 Corinthians meet that list also, they, that tried to take Pauls church away. They thought they were elite, had pride, they perverted the word of God, they dismissed Paul, they certainly manipulated and controlled the deceived church, pride filled, and certainly they were divisive.

All this can be substantiated with text.

Alrighty now, be back later gators.

 

[Frogster]

I wonder if pharisees boil frogs? Seems to me that pharisees boil frogs. Got kosher?

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Since no one has offered any proof that the people who say we are saved by grace advocate sin, we can all agree that we don't.

I would appreciate it in the future if you would not falsely accuse us of this as we are called to truth (those who are in Christ are).

 

[Gregory Thompson]

well since those who falsely accuse people aren't given the same punishment that they intended for those they accused anymore .. it seems to lend more meaning to what grace is . repentance from kindness instead of punishment .

 

[ToBeBlessed]

well since those who falsely accuse people aren't given the same punishment that they intended for those they accused anymore .. it seems to lend more meaning to what grace is . repentance from kindness instead of punishment .

That makes sense.