Pagan holidays mixing with Christian ones

[prodromos]

Easter always follows the pagan fertility rites, it falls on the Sunday after the full moon, following the vernal equinox.

What pagan fertility rites are you referring to? What is the primary source describing these rites and what detail does it actually describe?

"Spring" and the "Prolific" hare, bunny that is.

Christ was crucified in the Spring. We don't have any hares or rabbits in our Easter services.

 

[Truth7t7]

What pagan fertility rites are you referring to? What is the primary source describing these rites and what detail does it actually describe?

Christ was crucified in the Spring. We don't have any hares or rabbits in our Easter services.

I could post hundreds of citation, this is your founation.

Painted Easter eggs throughout Orthodox churches is a prime example, the fertility rites were in practice long before Jesus rose from the grave.

The Guardian

Easter is a pagan festival. If Easter isn't really about Jesus, then what is it about? Today, we see a secular culture celebrating the spring equinox, whilst religious culture celebrates the resurrection. However, early Christianity made a pragmatic acceptance of ancient pagan practises, most of which we enjoy today at Easter. The general symbolic story of the death of the son (sun) on a cross (the constellation of the Southern Cross) and his rebirth, overcoming the powers of darkness, was a well worn story in the ancient world. There were plenty of parallel, rival resurrected saviours too.

The Sumerian goddess Inanna, or Ishtar, was hung naked on a stake, and was subsequently resurrected and ascended from the underworld. One of the oldest resurrection myths is Egyptian Horus. Born on 25 December, Horus and his damaged eye became symbols of life and rebirth. Mithras was born on what we now call Christmas day, and his followers celebrated the spring equinox. Even as late as the 4th century AD, the sol invictus, associated with Mithras, was the last great pagan cult the church had to overcome. Dionysus was a divine child, resurrected by his grandmother. Dionysus also brought his mum, Semele, back to life.

 

[prodromos]

I could post hundreds of citation

I ask for primary sources and all you can give me is Heather McDougall, who not a historian but a writer and music teacher?!

this is your founation.

Painted Easter eggs throughout Orthodox churches is a prime example

Eggs are traditionally dyed red in commemoration of a miracle which occurred when St Mary Magdelene preached Christ's resurrection at an audience with Tiberius Caesar. Tiberius scoffed saying that a man could no more rise from the dead than the egg in her hand turn red, upon which the egg immediately turned red.

the fertility rites were in practice long before Jesus rose from the grave.

What fertility rites?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I've noticed a pattern of claims being repeated by Pagan origins advocates who have all but ignored our many responses to many who have made the same claims throughout the thread.

Truth, if you want to tie Pascha (I'm deliberately calling it what it is called in Greek in order to confuse you) to Pagan fertility rituals why don't you do the same with the Jewish Pascha (Passover)? The determination of the Jewish Passover, like Easter, is based on the position of the moon and it's relation to Spring. Why is Passover not Pagan derived and Pascha is?

 

[Root of Jesse]

never mind Catholics usually believe what it teaches. My mistake

If you're not going to make a point, I'll let this die. I asked you, so what?, asking what's your point...but you won't make one, so I will leave it alone. I do trust the Catechism, I don't trust your interpretation, so I wanted to know what you thought that statement meant.

 

[Root of Jesse]

It's recorded history.

Your version, anyway.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Pascha is Biblical.
Easter is not. (bunnies, eggs = fertility)

I agree about the roots, but the dates are pagan holidays.
But again, does it matter that much?

The only down side is that it causes confusion.
Many believe Christianity is just adapted paganism because of mixing things into the traditions.

Easter is not bunnies and eggs, though it is one way children commemorate Easter. Regarding the dates of pagan holidays, my birthday falls on one of those days, does that automatically make me a pagan? No. So neither does the supposition that a Christian holy day falls on the same day as a pagan holiday, so therefore the Christian holy day is pagan.
I don't know many, besides a few here in these forums, that's really confused....

 

[Root of Jesse]

Equinoxes and solstices have always been celebrated in pagan cultures.

They are celebrated in religious culture, as well, but not in the way you suppose. We celebrate the shortest, and longest days of the year, naturally. We also celebrate the change of seasons. So what?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Hmmm...
It seems the confusion i mentioned confused me too..
Plus i should have read the whole topic with more attention.
My bad...
It's because Jesus' birth is placed on the winter solstice that i don't trust the dates of other traditional Christian holidays either.
Other factors have weight also..
As far as Easter is concerned, i think it's a pagan equinox holiday because of the name "Easter", even though it's basically the same day as Pascha.
I guess i'll have to look deeper into it before i can form a proper opinion.

We've told you just as much. Glad you finally see the problem.

 

[Root of Jesse]

There were much less martyrs killed in the early days than people killed in the name of the Papacy.

Killed in the name of the Papacy does not equal 'the pope had people killed'.

 

[Eloy Craft]

The human nature that Jesus took on, since it is finite as the Catechism of the Catholic Church states (#476), was created.There was a time when it did not exist and then there was a time when it did.
Did Jesus have a soul? Yes. Was it created? I don't think so. Could be wrong.


The catechism teaches what human nature sois as well. It isn't the body alone.

Human nature consists of body and soul therefore according to the catechism the soul is created. That point.

 

[Hieronymus]

Killed in the name of the Papacy does not equal 'the pope had people killed'.

Technically it does though...
But either way, point is that the history of institutionalised Christianity is written in blood.
Religion as a means for people to gain and abuse power and wealth.
Not exactly good fruits i.m.h.o.
One of the reasons i (and many others) have always rejected Christianity as a whole.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Technically it does though...
But either way, point is that the history of institutionalised Christianity is written in blood.
Religion as a means for people to gain and abuse power and wealth.
Not exactly good fruits i.m.h.o.
One of the reasons i (and many others) have always rejected Christianity as a whole.

Well, Adam abused what God gave him in favor of himself, and ever since people have sought to gain and abuse power and wealth. The thing is Christianity is not about humanity, it's about Christ. The Divine Man. Whatever people do in his name that is not Christlike is...not Christlike.

People kill in the name of Jesus, that doesn't mean that Jesus made them kill. People kill because they think the pope demands it, if the pope didn't demand it, it wasn't in the name of the pope. Sorry.

You call yourself a Christian, though...

 

[Root of Jesse]

The human nature that Jesus took on, since it is finite as the Catechism of the Catholic Church states (#476), was created.There was a time when it did not exist and then there was a time when it did.
Did Jesus have a soul? Yes. Was it created? I don't think so. Could be wrong.


The catechism teaches what human nature sois as well. It isn't the body alone.

Human nature consists of body and soul therefore according to the catechism the soul is created. That point.

OK. I still don't know that Jesus' soul was created. I don't see that the Church states as much.

Your citation says nothing about His soul:
Christ's true body

476 Since the Word became flesh in assuming a true humanity, Christ's body was finite.112 Therefore the human face of Jesus can be portrayed; at the seventh ecumenical council (Nicaea II in 787) the Church recognized its representation in holy images to be legitimate.113

477 At the same time the Church has always acknowledged that in the body of Jesus "we see our God made visible and so are caught up in love of the God we cannot see."114 The individual characteristics of Christ's body express the divine person of God's Son. He has made the features of his human body his own, to the point that they can be venerated when portrayed in a holy image, for the believer "who venerates the icon is venerating in it the person of the one depicted".115

 

[prodromos]

OK. I still don't know that Jesus' soul was created. I don't see that the Church states as much.

Your citation says nothing about His soul:
Christ's true body

476 Since the Word became flesh in assuming a true humanity, Christ's body was finite.112 Therefore the human face of Jesus can be portrayed; at the seventh ecumenical council (Nicaea II in 787) the Church recognized its representation in holy images to be legitimate.113

477 At the same time the Church has always acknowledged that in the body of Jesus "we see our God made visible and so are caught up in love of the God we cannot see."114 The individual characteristics of Christ's body express the divine person of God's Son. He has made the features of his human body his own, to the point that they can be venerated when portrayed in a holy image, for the believer "who venerates the icon is venerating in it the person of the one depicted".115

It's simple. If Christ doesn't have a human soul, He is not 100% man. If Christ did not assume the whole of our nature then He did not heal the whole of our nature.

 

[Root of Jesse]

It's simple. If Christ doesn't have a human soul, He is not 100% man. If Christ did not assume the whole of our nature then He did not heal the whole of our nature.

It IS simple. Where did I say Christ didn't have a soul? My question is "was it created"? Not did he have/not have a soul.

 

[Eloy Craft]

OK. I still don't know that Jesus' soul was created. I don't see that the Church states as much.

Your citation says nothing about His soul:
Christ's true body

476 Since the Word became flesh in assuming a true humanity, Christ's body was finite.112 Therefore the human face of Jesus can be portrayed; at the seventh ecumenical council (Nicaea II in 787) the Church recognized its representation in holy images to be legitimate.113

477 At the same time the Church has always acknowledged that in the body of Jesus "we see our God made visible and so are caught up in love of the God we cannot see."114 The individual characteristics of Christ's body express the divine person of God's Son. He has made the features of his human body his own, to the point that they can be venerated when portrayed in a holy image, for the believer "who venerates the icon is venerating in it the person of the one depicted".115

you skipped over #467 in the catechism

451, confessed:
Following the holy Fathers, we unanimously teach and confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ: the same perfect in divinity and perfect in humanity, the same truly God and truly man, composed of rational soul and body; consubstantial with the Father as to his divinity and consubstantial with us as to his humanity; "like us in all things but sin". He was begotten from the Father before all ages as to his divinity and in these last days, for us and for our salvation, was born as to his humanity of the virgin Mary, the Mother of God.91

Frankly, that's what my post's have been expressing since I entered discussion on this subject.8

 

[prodromos]

It IS simple. Where did I say Christ didn't have a soul? My question is "was it created"? Not did he have/not have a soul.

Not just a soul, a HUMAN soul.

 

[prodromos]

I could post hundreds of citation.

Thus far you have been unable to provide even one primary source.

 

[Root of Jesse]

you skipped over #467 in the catechism

451, confessed:
Following the holy Fathers, we unanimously teach and confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ: the same perfect in divinity and perfect in humanity, the same truly God and truly man, composed of rational soul and body; consubstantial with the Father as to his divinity and consubstantial with us as to his humanity; "like us in all things but sin". He was begotten from the Father before all ages as to his divinity and in these last days, for us and for our salvation, was born as to his humanity of the virgin Mary, the Mother of God.91

Frankly, that's what my post's have been expressing since I entered discussion on this subject.8

Well, this discussion is supposed to be about pagan holidays mixing with Christian ones.
467 still doesn't address my question-was Jesus' soul created or not?